First Crusade : Discussion

[TR.1]

battle of manzikert

Sultan Alparslan humiliating Emperor Romanus IV

When the Emperor Romanos IV was conducted into the presence of Alp Arslan, he refused to believe that the bloodied and tattered man covered in dirt was the mighty Emperor of the Romans. After discovering the identity of the Emperor, he placed his boot on the Emperor's neck and forced him to kiss the ground.[7] A famous conversation is also reported to have taken place[17]:

Alp Arslan: "What would you do if I were brought before you as a prisoner?"
Romanos: "Perhaps I'd kill you, or exhibit you in the streets of Constantinople."
Alp Arslan: "My punishment is far heavier. I forgive you, and set you free."
Alp Arslan treated Romanos with considerable kindness[18] and again offered the terms of peace which he had offered previous to the battle.

Romanos remained a captive of the Sultan for a week. During this time, the Sultan allowed Romanos to eat at his table whilst concessions were agreed; Antioch, Edessa, Hierapolis and Manzikert were to be surrendered.[8] This would have left the vital core of Anatolia untouched. A payment of 10 million gold pieces demanded by the Sultan as a ransom for Romanos was deemed as too high by the latter so the Sultan reduced its short-term expense by instead asking for 1.5 million gold pieces as an initial payment followed by an annual sum of 360,000 gold pieces

 

[umair86pk]

you have no idea of the stupidity that is being paraded as history. its all one big movie to fool us

yeah right same as your mahbharat history

 

[Targon]

Here are some accurate illustrations for Seljuk Turks.

 

[kobiraaz]

Siege of Ma'arra

Date Nov. - Dec. 1098
Location Ma'arrat al-Numan
Result Crusader victory
Belligerents Crusaders(Raymond of Toulouse, Bohemond of Taranto) Vs Fatimids ( Local Militia)

LOCATION: in present day Syria

Prologue
After the Crusaders, led by Raymond de Saint Gilles and Bohemond of Taranto, successfully besieged Antioch, they started to raid the surrounding countryside. In July 1098, Raymond Pilet, a knight in the army of Raymond de Saint Gilles, led an expedition against Maarat but were completely routed with many casualties. Around the end of November, thousands of crusaders started to besiege the city again.

Siege

The defenders of the city, mostly an urban militia and inexperienced citizens, managed to hold off the attacks for about two weeks. The crusaders spent this time building a siege tower, which allowed them to pour over the walls of the city, while at the same time a group of knights scaled the undefended walls on the other side of the city.

On the morning of December 12, the garrison negotiated with Bohemond, who promised them safe conduct if they surrendered. The Muslims surrendered, but the crusaders immediately began to massacre the population.

Crusaders throwing Heads Of captured Muslims Over Muslim Garrison

Cannibalism by Crusaders

Maarat was not as rich as the crusaders had hoped and they were still short of supplies and food as December progressed. While the leaders negotiated away from the city, some of the starving crusaders at Maarat reportedly resorted to cannibalism, feeding on the dead bodies of Muslims.

A chronicler, Radulph of Caen wrote:

"Some people said that, constrained by the lack of food, they boiled pagan adults in cooking-pots, impaled children on spits and devoured them grilled."

These events were also chronicled by Fulcher of Chartres, who wrote:

"I shudder to tell that many of our people, harassed by the madness of excessive hunger, cut pieces from the buttocks of the Saracens already dead there, which they cooked, but when it was not yet roasted enough by the fire, they devoured it with savage mouth."

 

[kobiraaz]

Siege of Jerusalem (1099)


Date June 7 – July 15, 1099
Location Jerusalem

Result Decisive Crusader victory


Belligerents



Kingdom of France
Holy Roman Empire
Duchy of Apulia
Kingdom of England
VS
Fatimid Caliphate

Strength
1,200-1,300 Knights
11,000-12,000 Infantry
VS
400 Cavalrymen, and a
Sizeable Garrison of Muslim troops including Nubians

Casualties and losses
Heavy VS 70,000 (civilians)(Entire Garrison killed)

Arrival at the Holy City

On 7 June, the crusaders reached Jerusalem, which had been recaptured from the Sunni Seljuqs by the Shia Fatimids only the year before. Of the estimated 5,000 knights who took part in the Princes' Crusade, only about 1,500 remained, along with another 12,000 healthy foot-soldiers (out of perhaps as many as 30,000)


The barefoot procession

Faced with a seemingly impossible task, their spirits were raised when a priest by the name of Peter Desiderius claimed to have a divine vision in which the ghost of Adhemar instructed them to fast for three days and then march in a barefoot procession around the city walls, after which the city would fall in nine days, following the Biblical example of Joshua at the siege of Jericho. Although they were already starving, they fasted, and on July 8 they made the procession, with the clergy blowing trumpets and singing psalms, being mocked by the defenders of Jerusalem all the while.

The final assault

Throughout the siege, attacks were made on the walls, but each one was repulsed.

The Genoese troops, led by commander Guglielmo Embriaco, had previously dismantled the ships in which the Genoeses came to the Holy Land; Embriaco, using the ship's wood, made some siege towers.

On the morning of July 15, Godfrey's seize tower reached his section of the walls near the northeast corner gate,the Muslim guarding the gate surrendered to Raymond.

 

[Burger Boy]

Does anyone know what was the status of Ashkelon in detail after the first crusade. I think I read somewhere that after the fatimids lost jerusalem, they still controlled ashkelon for another 50 years or so before totally being pushed back into Egypt.

 

[TR.1]

Seljuk Sultan Alp Arslan

 

[kobiraaz]

Massacre in Jerusalem by Crusaders:

Massacre of Jews

The Jewish defenders sought refuge in their synagogue, but the "Franks burned it over their heads", killing everyone inside. One account alleges that the Crusaders circled the flaming building while singing "Christ, We Adore Thee!, Thee are our light, our direction, our love".

Arabist S.D. Goitein discovered a letter from the Cairo Geniza in 1952 that dated to only a few months after the siege. The letter reveals the Crusaders had captured many of the city's inhabitants and held them for ransom. Much of the money was raised by the Jewish community of Alexandria, Egypt and forwarded onto the Crusaders via the Jewish community of Ascalon near the Gaza strip. The captives were sold for less than the going price of 100 dinars for three people (33.3 per person) because the Crusaders could not afford to care for all of them.

The front and back of the original 12th century letter

It was written in April 1100, only nine months after the siege. The senders were six Jewish elders from the city of Ascalon (Ashkelon) who had fled as refugees to Alexandria in Egypt. The letter was most likely addressed to the Karaite Jewish community in Fustat-Cairo. . The letter goes on to say:


[A. Introductory blessings]

[Of the certainly long Hebrew poem, only five lines have been preserved, ending with the expression of messianic hopes:]

“At that time I will bring you home, and when gathering you in, I will make you renowned and famed among the peoples of the earth, when I restore your fortunes before your very eyes” [Zephaniah 3:20].

[b. Praise for the quick and efficient help]

We received the letter of your excellencies, our lords, the illustrious sheikhs—may God prolong your lives and make permanent your strong, high, and exalted position, and crush your enviers and enemies. The letter contained instructions concerning the suftaja [letter of credit] attached to it, which was destined for our brethren, the Jerusalemites. We have received the sum from the person charged with the payment, which our community much appreciated and highly valued. We regarded it as large, not as compared with your usual generosity but in consideration of your present troubles. We were particularly impressed by this donation because you acted immediately, without delay.

[C. How the funds sent before were used]

We thanked God, the exalted, for giving us the opportunity to induce you to fulfill this pious deed and for granting you to take a share in it with us.

We spent the money on ransom for some of the captives after duly considering the instructions contained in your letter, namely, to sent what was available to those who had [already been ransomed]. We have not failed to reply to what you have written us, may God keep you. We answered indeed, but were looking for a man who would carry our reply to you. Then it so happened that those illnesses came upon us: Plague, pestilence, and epidemics, which occupied us, either ourselves or one of our relatives being stricken by disease. Finally, a person traveled from here, and we trust that he explained to you the situation with respect to the sums you had sent: that they reached us safely and were spent in the manner indicated by you.

[D. The plight of the ransomed and of those still in captivity]

New still reaches us continuously that of those who were redeemed from the Franks and remained in Ascalon some are in danger of dying from want of food, clothing and from exhaustion. Others remained in captivity, of whom some were killed with all manner of torture out of sheer lust to murder before the eyes of others who were spared. We did not hear of a single man of Israel in such danger without exerting ourselves to do all that was in our power to save him.

[E. Captives redeemed by an Alexandrian notable]

God the exalted has granted opportunities for relief and deliverance to individual refugees, of which the first and most perfect instance—after the compassion of Heaven—was the presence in Ascalon of the honorable elder Abu ‘l-Fadl Sahl, son of Yusha’, son of Sha’ya—may God preserve him—who has dealings with the government—may God bestow upon it glorious victories—whose influence is great in Alexandria, where his word is very much heeded. He arranged matters wisely to overcome this emergency; but it would require a lengthy discourse to explain how he did it. He could not ransom some people and leave others.

[F. On some captives still held by the Franks]

In the end, all those who could be bought from them [the Franks] were liberated, and only a few whom they kept remained in their hands, including a boy of about eight years of age, and a man known as Abu Sa'd, the son of the Tustari's wife. It is reported that the Franks urged the latter to embrace the Christian faith of his own free will and promised to treat him well, but he said to them, how could a Kohen [Jewish priest] become a Christian and be left in peace by those [the Jews] who had already disbursed a large sum on his behalf. Until this day, these captives remain in their [Franks] hand, as well as those who were taken to Antioch, but they are few; and not counting those who abjured their faith [converted to Christianity] because they lost patience, as it was not possible to ransom them, and because they despaired of being permitted to go free.

[G. No women violated]

We were not informed, praise be to God, the exalted, that the accursed ones who are called Ashkenaz [another name for the Franks] violated women, as others do.

[H. Details about the escape]

Now, among those who have reached safety are some who escaped on the second and third days following the battle and left with the governor who was granted safe conduct, and others who, after having been caught by the Franks, remained in their hands for some time and escaped in the end; these are but few. The majority consists of those who were bought free.

[I. Flight of individuals to Egypt]

To our sorrow, some of them ended their lives in all kinds of suffering and affliction. The privations that they had to endure caused some of them to leave for this country [Egypt] without provisions or protection against the cold, and they died on the way. Others perished at sea; and still others, after having arrived here safely, became exposed to a “change of air”; they came at the height of the plague, and a number of them died. We had at that time, reported the arrival of each group.

[J. The transport of the ransomed to Egypt]

But when the aforementioned honored elder arrived, he brought a group f of them, that is, most of those who had reached Ascalon; he passed the Sabbath and celebrated Passover with them on the way in the manner required by such circumstances. He contracted a private load for the sum needed to pay the camel drivers and for their maintenance on the way, as well as for the caravan guards and other expenses, after having already spent other sums of money, which he did not charge to the community.

[K. The books ransomed]

All this is in addition to the money that was borrowed and spent in order to buy back two hundred and thirty Bible codices, a hundred other volumes, and eight Torah Scrolls. All these are communal property and are now in Ascalon.

[L. Reduced prices for the captives]

The community, after having disbursed on different occasions about 500 dinars for the actual ransom of the individuals, for maintenance of some of them and for the ransom, as mentioned above, of the communal property, remained indebted for the sum of 200 and some odd dinars. This is in addition to what has been spend on behalf of those who have been arriving from the beginning until now, on medical potions and treatment, maintenance and, insofar as possible, clothing. If it could be calculated how much this has coast over such a long period, the sum would indeed be huge.

Had the accepted practice been followed, that is, of selling three Jewish captives for a hundred (dinars), the whole available sum would have been spent for the ransom of only a few. However, the grace of the Lord, may his name be glorified, has been bestowed upon these wretched people, who may, indeed cry out as it is written: “You let them devour us like sheep, and scattered us among the nations. You have sold your people for a trifle, demanding no high price for them” Indeed, all the money we have spent to meet this emergency, from the beginning until now, is but insignificant and negligible with respect to its magnitude and the intensity of the sorrow it has entailed.

[M. Need for further donations despite the dire state of the community]

Some may rightly adduce as an excuse the impoverishment of this class of the wealthy and well-to-do, as well as the troubles endured by your community during this winter, which harmed it and weakened its strength, [damaged] its fortunes and reduced it numbers, so that everything became disturbed. Finally, he who escaped from this was assaulted by painful illnesses which devoured his possessions so that he had to take loans for his current expenses. We cannot refrain from reporting what we know, however, and what we have done up till now. For we know that you, like ourselves, grieve and morn for those who have gone and are concerned to preserve those who are alive, especially since your determination to distinguish yourselves in this matter has become apparent, and the loftiness of your aspiration and generosity is now famous. You were the first and most consistent in seizing this opportunity to get precedence over all other communities and have attained great honor. You are now in the position of that tribe that was praised because it rushed to perform noble deeds and was in a hurry to accomplish all that is praise worthy, as it is said: “He was in the van of his people to fulfill the Lord’s design and his decision for Israel” [Deuteronomy 33:21]

We have already indicated that we remain in debt of more than 200 dinars, apart from the sums that are still required for the maintenance of the captives who remained in Ascalon—a little more than twenty persons—their transport and other needs until they will arrive here.

[N. A special case]

Among those who are in Ascalon is the honored elder Abi ‘l-Khayr Mubarak, the son of the teacher Hiba b. Nisan—may God always protect him. It is well known how noble, wise, God-fearing, and endowed with high virtues he is; he is bound by an old vow not to benefit by anything from charity together with the whole of the community, but only from what is explicitly destined for him by name. [He should be enabled] to come here, after you, our lords, have graciously provided what is needed for the payment of the debt incurred for the ransom of our and your brethren.

[O. Suggestions for a successful appeal]

Gird now your loins together with us in this matter, and it will be accounted for you as a mark of merit in the future, as it has been in the past …for we have no one in these parts to whom we could write as we are writing to you. It is proper that we should turn to you and take the liberty of causing you some inconvenience.

The main sections of this letter should be read out to your community, after you have announced that everyone was obliged to attend. The benefit will thus be complete and general, both to those who pay and to those who receive payment. For it is unlikely that there should not be among the people persons who had made a vow; there may be others who owe a sum to the communal chest, the use of which has not been defined; such should, then, be invited to earmark their contribution; others might volunteer a gift without strings. Or there may be those who intend to make a contribution to one cause rather than to another. In this manner, you will achieve your purpose, extricate strength from the weak, and deal with us in your accustomed generosity and excellent manner… and you will deserve, through this charitable act, to acquire both worlds…

[P. How to transfer the funds collected]

We dispatched a messenger to you, who will tell you the details of this emergency, thus exempting us from discoursing on it at greater length. We beg of you—may God prolong your life—to take care of him until he returns, as well as of the sums which God may grant from your side. If you could make out a letter of credit for what will be collected, this would make things easier for him, since he is but a messenger, and speed up his return. If this cannot be done, arrange that an exact statement of how much has been collected be made, and have your letter sent through him [the messenger] and mention the sum in it.

[Q. Conclusion]

[Nine lines of blessings in Hebrew and biblical quotations expressing hopes for retaliation and restitution (Isaiah 14:2, Jeremiah 50:33-34a, Isaiah 61:9).]

[R. Postscript and details about the messenger]

The bearer of this letter, our esteemed m[aster] and t[eacher] Sedaqa, son of the learned and pious Saadya, known as sheikh Abu ‘Amr, the Miller, [may] G[od have] m[ercy upon him], is a respectable and reliable person, helpful and devout, eager to earn praise for the pursuit of good deeds, a man of true liberality. He is not blessed with riches, and has little in hand. However, his noble soul demands from him more than his circumstances permit. He busies himself with the affairs of the […], makes rounds for the needy, and seeks to gain all kinds of religious merits. Now he has ventured to have his own affairs and to undertake his mission.

We reiterate our request that you take good care of him, carry through his mission as quickly as possible, and support him in every way. The good you do with him will be widely known, the little you donate will be appreciated, let alone the much. Whatever you decide—may God make your welfare permanent—with regard to what we have written concerning this man and expediting his mission, will be right, if God will.

[S. Six signatures]

[1] Samuel b. Halfon, the physician, sends your excellencies the most special greetings.

[2] Musallam b. Barakat (“Blessings”) b. Ishaq (Isaac) sends your excellencies the most special and respectful greetings.

[3] May the entire holy and chosen congregation—may their Rock keep, and their Savior help them, above all, their learned and saintly men—accept my greetings of peace, I, Shelah, the Kohen, b. Zadok b. Masliah b. Z…m[ay their] s[ouls be] p[reserved in the] b[undle of] l[life]. Take notice that my soul is yearning after you. May our God in his grace bring us together soon. [A]m[en]. [In Hebrew. Shelah, as Kohen, pronounced the priestly blessing over the entire congregation.]

[4] Hananiah b. Mansur [Victorious] b. Ezra sends etc. and asks you to pay attention to the content of this letter. And Peace!

[5] The writer of this letter, the suffering, mourning, and grieved Isaiah, the Kohen, son of Masli’ah, the Pre[captor], singles out all your lords for the choicest greetings and asks you to be indulgent with him; for it has not been hidden from you what he has endured and suffered from the moment he parted with you up till this very moment. And [may your] w[elfare] [wax]. A[men].

[6] David b. Solomon b. David b. Isaac b. Eli the [Preceptor] extends to your illustrious excellencies the most respectful greetings and asks you to take care of the messenger and to attend to him quickly. May I never be robbed of your generosity.

 

[kobiraaz]

Massacre of Muslims :

Many Muslims sought shelter in the Al-Aqsa Mosque, the Dome of the Rock, and the Temple Mount area generally. According to the Gesta Francorum, speaking only of the Temple Mount area, "...[our men] were killing and slaying even to the Temple of Solomon, where the slaughter was so great that our men waded in blood up to their ankles..." According to Raymond of Aguilers, also writing solely of the Temple Mount area, " in the Temple and porch of Solomon men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins." Writing about the Temple Mount area alone Fulcher of Chartres, who was not an eyewitness to the Jerusalem siege because he had stayed with Baldwin in Edessa at the time, says: "In this temple 10,000 were killed. Indeed, if you had been there you would have seen our feet coloured to our ankles with the blood of the slain. But what more shall I relate? None of them were left alive; neither women nor children were spared".

The eyewitness Gesta Francorum states that some people were spared. Its anonymous author wrote, "When the pagans had been overcome, our men seized great numbers, both men and women, either killing them or keeping them captive, as they wished." Later the same source writes, "[Our leaders] also ordered all the Saracen dead to be cast outside because of the great stench, since the whole city was filled with their corpses; and so the living Saracens dragged the dead before the exits of the gates and arranged them in heaps, as if they were houses. No one ever saw or heard of such slaughter of pagan people, for funeral pyres were formed from them like pyramids, and no one knows their number except God alone. But Raymond caused the Emir and the others who were with him to be conducted to Ascalon, whole and unhurt."

Another eyewitness source, Raymond of Aguilers, reports that some Muslims survived. After recounting the slaughter on the Temple Mount he reports of some who "took refuge in the Tower of David, and, petitioning Count Raymond for protection, surrendered the Tower into his hands." [18] These Muslims left with the Fatimid governor for Ascalon. A version of this tradition is also known to the later Muslim historian Ibn al-Athir (10, 193–95), who recounts that after the city was taken and pillaged: "A band of Muslims barricaded themselves into the Oratory of David (Mihrab Dawud) and fought on for several days. They were granted their lives in return for surrendering. The Franks honoured their word, and the group left by night for Ascalon." One Cairo Geniza letter also refers to some Jewish residents who left with the Fatimid governor.

Tancred claimed the Temple quarter for himself and offered protection to some of the Muslims there, but he was unable to prevent their deaths at the hands of his fellow Crusaders.

Although the Crusaders killed many of the Muslim and Jewish residents, eyewitness accounts (Gesta Francorum, Raymond of Aguilers, and the Cairo Geniza documents) demonstrate that some Muslim and Jewish residents were allowed to live, as long as they left Jerusalem.

 

[kobiraaz]

Battle of Ascalon


Ascalon was a Fatimid Garrison a day's march away From Jerusalem..

After conquering Jerusalem, Godfrey of Bouillon was named Defender of the Holy Sepulcher on July 22, and Arnulf of Chocques, named patriarch of Jerusalem.On August 10 Godfrey led the remaining crusaders out of Jerusalem towards Ascalon.

Date:August 12, 1099

Location :Ashkelon, Israel

Result : Crusader victory

Belligerents: Crusaders vs Fatimid Empire of Egypt


Commanders and leaders: Godfrey of Bouillon ,Robert II of Normandy ,Tancred of Taranto Vs Al-Afdal Shahanshah ( son of an Armenian Convert, Vizier of Fatimid Empire)

According to most accounts (both crusader and Muslim), the Fatimids were caught unprepared and the battle was short, but Albert of Aix states that the battle went on for some time with a fairly well prepared Egyptian army. The two main lines of battle fought each other with arrows until they were close enough to fight hand-to-hand with spears and other hand weapons. The Ethiopians attacked the centre of the crusader line, and the Fatimid vanguard was able to outflank the crusaders and surround their rearguard, until Godfrey arrived to rescue them. Despite his numerical superiority, al-Afdal's army was hardly as strong or dangerous as the Seljuk armies that the crusaders had encountered previously. The battle seems to have been over before the Fatimid heavy cavalry was prepared to join it. Al-Afdal and his panicked troops fled back to the safety of the heavily fortified city; Raymond chased some of them into the sea, others climbed trees and were killed with arrows, while others were crushed in the retreat back into the gates of Ascalon. Al-Afdal left behind his camp and its treasures, which were captured by Robert and Tancred. Crusader losses are unknown, but the Egyptians lost about 10–12,000 men.

Does anyone know what was the status of Ashkelon in detail after the first crusade. I think I read somewhere that after the fatimids lost jerusalem, they still controlled ashkelon for another 50 years or so before totally being pushed back into Egypt.

The battle of Ascalon (outside the gate of Garrison) was a crusader victory the city itself remained under Fatimid control, and it was eventually re-garrisoned by muslims. It became the base of operations for invasions of the Kingdom of Jerusalem every year afterwards, and numerous battles were fought there in the following years, until 1153 when it was finally captured by the crusaders in the Siege of Ascalon.

 

[kobiraaz]

Fate of Crusader Jerusalem

There was still some uncertainty about what to do with the new kingdom. The papal legate Daimbert of Pisa convinced Godfrey to hand over Jerusalem to him as Latin Patriarch, with the intention to set up a theocratic state directly under papal control. According to William of Tyre, Godfrey may have supported Daimbert's efforts, and he agreed to take possession of "one or two other cities and thus enlarge the kingdom" if Daimbert were permitted to rule Jerusalem. Godfrey did indeed increase the boundaries of the kingdom, by capturing Jaffa, Haifa, Tiberias, and other cities, and reducing many others to tributary status. He set the foundations for the system of vassalage in the kingdom, establishing the Principality of Galilee and the County of Jaffa. But his reign was short, and he died of an illness in 1100. His brother Baldwin of Boulogne successfully outmanoeuvered Daimbert and claimed Jerusalem for himself as "king of the Latins of Jerusalem". Daimbert compromised by crowning Baldwin in Bethlehem rather than Jerusalem, but the path for a state had been laid. Within this framework, a Catholic church hierarchy was established, overtop of the local Eastern Orthodox and Syrian Orthodox authorities, who retained their own hierarchies (the Catholics considered them schismatics and thus illegitimate). Under the Latin Patriarch there were four suffragan archdioceses and numerous dioceses.


The Population of Crusader Jerusalem

Initially the city suffered from major depopulation. Its Jewish and Moslem residents, who had accounted for most of the city's populace on the eve of the Crusader invasion, were murdered or sold into slavery. Following the massacre a decree was issued forbidding Jews and ******* to reside in Jerusalem. While the Crusader army numbered, according to Benvenisti 40,000 people very few actually settled in Jerusalem after its conquest. In fact the city's new, mostly European residents were unable to fill a single quarter and concentrated their settlement around the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the citadel. Recognizing this problem the city's rulers issued a series of financial incentives in order to attract new residents.

As new residents arrived in Jerusalem the city began to develop ethnic spatial divisions. Assyrian Christians settled in the area of the former Jewish Quarter (then the northeast corner of the city) which retained the name Juiverie. The majority of the city's other residence were Europeans, mostly French, which also served as the official language. As a result several neighborhoods developed as linguistic enclaves: The area between the Temple Mount and Mt. Zion was settled by German speaking knights of the Hospitaller Order (later Teutonic). A Spanish neighborhood developed near today's Damascus Gate. There was a Provencal enclave near Zion Gate. The Hungarians established a hospice north of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. In addition to these West European enclaves, there were several settlements of Eastern Christians. The Armenians formed a neighborhood of their own around the Church of St. James (still there today and part of the current Armenian Quarter). There was a considerable Coptic settlement in the northeastern corner of the city. The Greek Orthodox community was located mostly opposite the citadel, after most of its churches were confiscated by their Latin rivals. The Georgian community was concentrated around the Monastery of the Cross, several kilometers west of the city.

 

[explorer9]

Turks fought brilliantly against the Crusaders. Actually , even in first Crusade , Islamic Military Power almost completely annihilated Crusader army UNTIL one traitor opened the doors of Islamic defenses at Antioch. Then , it was all crusaders as they were FILLED with anger/desperation/hate by that time.

Yaigay Shian....Turkish Defender of Antioch.. deprived crusaders food and water supplies for MONTHS!..Crusaders were forced to drink the blood of their horses!!! "Feroz"..A Muslim traitor in Antioch opened the doors of the city to the Crusaders..Crusaders had no food.They were outside the city for 8th months.They were forced to drink blood..they were ANGRY !...and when they got a chance...they just BUTCHERED MUSLIMS (AND christians in the city )

Interestingly , if Feroz had not opened the doors of Antioch... Crusader Army would have been utterly pulverized by Islamic Military Power in the region. Why is that? Well Yaigay Shian , while he was holding Crusaders outside his city , had sent a secret message to the central Turkish authorities about Crusaders...and the main Turkish military arrived just few days after Crusaders took Antioch. So if Feroz had not opened the doors of the city .... weak , thirsty , desperate , disease stricken crusade army would've face a surprise massive Turkish onslaught from the behind!

Crusaders were fierce warriors...but so were the Turks!

Anyways , crusades changed the Europe forever. It was due to crusades that Europeans had came in contact with Islamic Civilization of that time..and this later planted the seeds of renaissance in Europe...as Europeans got science , technology , ideas , Greek works , indian-arab maths etc from Muslims later on...but thats another topic.

My favorite part of whole Crusade episode is Salahudin vs Richard ..The lionheart rivalry! The best of Arabs vs the best of Europe!

Saladin himself was Kurd might be a native Arabic speaker, I think better to say best of Muslims vs best of Christians ?

 

[muslim282]

[/B]


Saladin himself was Kurd might be a native Arabic speaker, I think better to say best of Muslims vs best of Christians ?

Your right. Salahuddin was a kurd.
His life and rise to power is in itself a great story.
One thing for sure, He was a great military general of very high morals, whom few can compare with.
May Allah bless his soul.

 

[Joe Shearer]

[/B]
Saladin himself was Kurd might be a native Arabic speaker, I think better to say best of Muslims vs best of Christians ?

Why, and how would a Kurd be a 'native Arabic speaker'?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Seljuk Sultan Alp Arslan

Why are u continuing to post alp arslan in the first crusade,his era was before this conflict and had nothing to do with it.Make seperate thread if necessary.