Final clearance eludes Tejas light combat aircraft

[GR!FF!N]

well,if they get FOC in June 2015,its not a problem at all..its better to get a late FOC than later b!tch!ng about components.IAF has major habit of it..

@Zarvan

we don't take dumb aircrafts with radar having 60 km range in AF.hopefully understood what I meant.we induct what can serve us properly.

 

[Windjammer]

well,if they get FOC in June 2015,its not a problem at all..its better to get a late FOC than later b!tch!ng about components.IAF has major habit of it..

@Zarvan

we don't take dumb aircrafts with radar having 60 km range in AF.hopefully understood what I meant.we induct what can serve us properly.

Not sure about the aircraft but certainly some dumb members are apparent on the forum.

KLJ-7 is a multi–function X-band Pulse-Doppler fire control radar. It was developed by Nanjing Research Institute of Electronic Technology (NRIET), also known as the China Electronics Technology Company's (CETC's) No. 14 Research Institute.

• Frequency: X band
• Operation range (RCS of 5 m2) :
  Up-looking detection range >105KM

 

[Hurter]

You may think it a waste of time, we think of it as our first true effort to build an aviation industry and ecosystem in India. Yes it is a difficult effort, but something attempted, something done. Nothing attempted, nothing done.

And yes, it will serve in hundreds - the IAF has no other option, to replace hundreds of older, light aircrafts.

You Indians have got plenty of options.. Buy new lighter jets from Russia as you always do or buy from U.S. They won't impose any sanctions on you.

 

[Daedalus]

Not sure about the aircraft but certainly some dumb members are apparent on the forum.

KLJ-7 is a multi–function X-band Pulse-Doppler fire control radar. It was developed by Nanjing Research Institute of Electronic Technology (NRIET), also known as the China Electronics Technology Company's (CETC's) No. 14 Research Institute.

• Frequency: X band
• Operation range (RCS of 5 m2) :
  Up-looking detection range >105KM

Chinese KLJ-7-type fire control radar can not meet Pakistani JF-17 fighter needs.

According to information provided by the China Electronics Import and Export Corporation (CEIEC), the radar has low target update rate in mechanical scanning, poor multi-target attack capability (goes on to note two more disadvantages which i was not able to understand, something about space management and simultaneous tracking), this disadvantages for the PAF are very unfavorable.

中国KLJ-7型火控雷达无法满足巴铁JF-17战机需求_军需处_西陆网
Data provided by the company which worked on development of the said radar. Even when CEIEC suggested against using this radar and instead go for AESA, which the article goes on to describe, wonder why PAF went ahead and put KLJ-7 in the thunder.

 

[raazh]

This is because the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is yet to receive two crucial equipment, required to improve the performance of the home grown fighter, from a British vendor.

The delay is due to the slippage in time to get imported fuel probe and quartz nose cone from a UK-based company named Cobham PLC.

What the hell has DRDO been doing for 30 years if they still have to import a nose cone from UK to meet user requirements?? Responsibility must be put on project head and he should be taken to task .. unless their is accountability in the system; don't be alarmed if the FOC slips 2-3 more deadlines also ..

 

[kodandarama]

What the hell has DRDO been doing for 30 years if they still have to import a nose cone from UK to meet user requirements?? Responsibility must be put on project head and he should be taken to task .. unless their is accountability in the system; don't be alarmed if the FOC slips 2-3 more deadlines also ..

User requirements are not a fixed thing. IAF is made up of superior people so they get to move the goal posts.

DRDO and the rest of India has to keep up with them. Otherwise as IAF chief as warned, IAF is not prepared for War. So that way if India looses any war, they can always tell us that they had warned us

 

[raazh]

User requirements are not a fixed thing. IAF is made up of superior people so they get to move the goal posts.
DRDO and the rest of India has to keep up with them. Otherwise as IAF chief as warned, IAF is not prepared for War. So that way if India looses any war, they can always tell us that they had warned us

Again the responsibility of the Project Head .. he should never accept new specifications after the design phase is complete and finalized. Otherwise this project will never get completed .. IAF will keep raising the bar higher and higher and the project will remain in the design phase for ever ..

 

[Archie]

Its not the fault of DRDO if IAF, keeps on shifting the goalpost

If we wanted a fighter with the same performance parameters as JF17, we would have inducted LCA back in 2011

But IAF wants a fighter that matches the performance parameters of the Gripen

and Frankly if DRDO and HAL dont improve, then LCA orders wont go beyond 40+83 Aircrafts

 

[kodandarama]

Again the responsibility of the Project Head .. he should never accept new specifications after the design phase is complete and finalized. Otherwise this project will never get completed .. IAF will keep raising the bar higher and higher and the project will remain in the design phase for ever ..

In which case IAF will refuse to accept the Aircraft and DRDO will have to carry the stigma of "failure".


You see, either way the IAF win. There is never any downside to them. All risk is carried by DRDO and the people of India who has to pay through their nose so that IAF can "defend" us. Never mind they have not fought any war in the last 40 years.

 

[janon]

You Indians have got plenty of options.. Buy new lighter jets from Russia as you always do or buy from U.S. They won't impose any sanctions on you.

Which light fighter from Russia? They do not have any modern (4+ gen), single engined light aircraft. Ditto for US. The F-16 with all the latest goodies is a medium weight fighter, which is why it competed in the MRCA competition. We badly need a cheap, light weight fighter - otherwise our force structure is getting unaffordably imbalanced.

Of course if we had paid for the development of a cheap and light fighter, I'm sure USA or Russia could have made us one. But why would we pay money to support their research, instead of spending a fraction of that amount domestically? Bear in mind that the entire cost of the LCA program over the past two decades has been a small fraction that Europe spent on designing Rafale or Eurofighter. The cost benefit ratio has been huge.

The goal of LCA was to develop a modern, indegenous fighter. How would that goal be served by purchasing from abroad?

Another point to note is that the reason for having a light fighter is to keep costs down, both aquisition as well as operational. The LCA is only expected to cost approx $25-30 million per unit, despite having American engines (which contributes a lot to the cost), even though we will only make around 200 of them. F-16s, even with a production run of several thousands, costs more. If we ask the US or Russia to manufacture a light jet for a production run of just 200, imagine how expensive it would be - designing plus manufacturing.

So no, when we emarked on the LCA project, that was the only way for us to develop an indegenous aviation industry. And today, despite all the delays, it is still our only option to sustain squadrons strength cheaply.

In which case IAF will refuse to accept the Aircraft and DRDO will have to carry the stigma of "failure".


You see, either way the IAF win. There is never any downside to them. All risk is carried by DRDO and the people of India who has to pay through their nose so that IAF can "defend" us. Never mind they have not fought any war in the last 40 years.

I wonder who bombed the living daylights out of Pakistani terrorists and special forces in Kargil in 1999. I wonder who flew recon missions with mig-23s, who bombed each peak with PGMs quickly integrated on Mirages, who flew mig-29s as fighter escorts and kept Pakistani F-16s away in fear.

 

[kodandarama]

I wonder who bombed the living daylights out of Pakistani terrorists and special forces in Kargil in 1999. I wonder who flew recon missions with mig-23s, who bombed each peak with PGMs quickly integrated on Mirages, who flew mig-29s as fighter escorts and kept Pakistani F-16s away in fear.

Yes, Kargil where Pakistani Air Force did not participate due to multiple reasons. IAF gets to be a hero in a war where they had no enemy aircraft's flying to oppose them.

Yet IAF did lose a few crafts even then.

 

[janon]

Yes, Kargil where Pakistani Air Force did not participate due to multiple reasons. IAF gets to be a hero in a war where they had no enemy aircraft's flying to oppose them.

Yet IAF did lose a few crafts even then.

One of them to enemy action.

And BTW the PAF did not participate because IAF's mig-29s with BVR missiles kept them away. Otherwise it would have been a different story - Munto Dhalo would not have been bombed, their supply lines would not have been cut off, they would not have retreated, at least not until they inflicted a lot more casualties on ground troops.

If the IAF scared the enemy into being MIA, that is an even bigger achievement.

 

[kodandarama]

One of them to enemy action.

And BTW the PAF did not participate because IAF's mig-29s with BVR missiles kept them away. Otherwise it would have been a different story - Munto Dhalo would not have been bombed, their supply lines would not have been cut off, they would not have retreated, at least not until they inflicted a lot more casualties on ground troops.

If the IAF scared the enemy into being MIA, that is an even bigger achievement.

That is a good point to make when debating with a paksitani. But that's not the real fact is it ?

PAF did not participate because ,

1. Pak. govt. claimed "freedom fighters" have occupied the heights, not pak army.
2. PAF was not in the loop, it was a PA operation
3. The civilian pak govt. did not authorise Defence action
4. US pressure
5. IAF was careful NEVER to cross into pak border.

Non of which had to do with IAF "capability". Come a real war, PAF will participate even if they do not have capability. Its silly to think they will be "scared" to participate .. anyway all this is off topic.

 

[Hurter]

Which light fighter from Russia? They do not have any modern (4+ gen), single engined light aircraft. Ditto for US. The F-16 with all the latest goodies is a medium weight fighter, which is why it competed in the MRCA competition. We badly need a cheap, light weight fighter - otherwise our force structure is getting unaffordably imbalanced.

Of course if we had paid for the development of a cheap and light fighter, I'm sure USA or Russia could have made us one. But why would we pay money to support their research, instead of spending a fraction of that amount domestically? Bear in mind that the entire cost of the LCA program over the past two decades has been a small fraction that Europe spent on designing Rafale or Eurofighter. The cost benefit ratio has been huge.

The goal of LCA was to develop a modern, indegenous fighter. How would that goal be served by purchasing from abroad?

Another point to note is that the reason for having a light fighter is to keep costs down, both aquisition as well as operational. The LCA is only expected to cost approx $25-30 million per unit, despite having American engines (which contributes a lot to the cost), even though we will only make around 200 of them. F-16s, even with a production run of several thousands, costs more. If we ask the US or Russia to manufacture a light jet for a production run of just 200, imagine how expensive it would be - designing plus manufacturing.

So no, when we emarked on the LCA project, that was the only way for us to develop an indegenous aviation industry. And today, despite all the delays, it is still our only option to sustain squadrons strength cheaply.



I wonder who bombed the living daylights out of Pakistani terrorists and special forces in Kargil in 1999. I wonder who flew recon missions with mig-23s, who bombed each peak with PGMs quickly integrated on Mirages, who flew mig-29s as fighter escorts and kept Pakistani F-16s away in fear.

Why would you need a lighter fighter jet when you have Sukhoi-30 & 5th Gen Stealth onboard? Moreover, There would be no comparison of 5th gen stealth against 4+ Gen fighter if war occurs.

 

[jarves]

Those who thought that Tejas will get FOC by December were cearly stupid.All the previous articles of 2-3 months before clearly stated this.