Fighting the Pakistan enemy

[All-Green]

^^^^
Windy, you wrote a paragraph but I don't see how you connected anything.

I did not want to go off topic my friend but had to comment here since you seem to find nothing wrong in Israeli State level atrocities since decades and cannot seem to connect the dots with militancy, extremism and now terrorism.

Israel has created very difficult living conditions for Palestinians and is not stopping work on additional settlements which are illegal as per U.N. charter. Actually there are many things which U.N. wanted to pass a resolution about but guess who stepped in?

USA blindly vetoes on behalf of Israelis so that makes people see USA as pretty much the one force which opposes what most of the world wants to do about the Palestinian conflict.
Facts speak for themselves so i have an interesting link which documents how many times US alone has vetoed a proposal while most of the countries were trying to condemn Israeli aggression or trying to make Israel comply with Geneva conventions, respect of holy places, basic human rights of Palestinians....All Vetoed by USA.

U.S. Vetoes of UN Resolutions Critical of Israel

To pretend that Israel has not been brutal and highhanded and that USA does not support Israel unconditionally is perhaps a bit too much when there have been countless examples of both, especially in face of condemnation from most of the world...and then to wonder why there is so much blame on USA and so much resentment is a cherry on top.

Please understand that when all avenues of hope are eliminated...a desperate people will turn to desperate means.
The Militants groups sprouting is not something desirable but when the world was unable to step in and restrain Israel despite an overwhelming majority convinced of Israeli injustices on many occasions...such things were bound to happen.
These people are no more different from IRA but their cause is something which most of the world agreed to but failed to intervene or even condemn via a UN resolution...thanks to the many vetoes and active financial/military support of USA.

This background and setting resulted in Arab and Muslim youth being full of hatred for USA-Israel alliance, which they perceived as anti Palestinian and anti Muslim in nature.
No one tries to stone armed soldiers and Tanks until one is full of hatred...hatred which you cannot simply label as nonsense...it stems from injustices spanning decades...injustices or oppression which even most of the world was ready to condemn, except USA which was willing to stand by its strategic ally despite world sentiment.

All this has been used by Al-Qaeda which justifies its actions as an eye for an eye...whereas we consider Al-Qaeda evil and worthy of hellfire...we cannot turn a blind eye to the situation which made Al-Qaeda gain support and access to angry youth who saw so many injustices and whose life was consumed with hate and vengeance...
The damage done to the Muslim world by Al-Qaeda and its associates is greater than anything the west or Israelis have to face...therefore when we do this analysis we are not blindly hating Israel sitting far away from the land, we have faced the fruit of this conflict sitting many miles away.
We are being realistic and looking at the root cause which has bred this extremism and terrorism, this outstanding issue needs to be addressed.

Mods, my apologies for going off topic but i had to answer here.

 

[dextr]

I just dont understand one thing.Well lemme explain my question.

Im assuming that there was no or very less militant related problems in Pakistan before the American declaration of so called War on terror(frankly speaking,I think the American actions r more terrorizing).The Pakistan Army carried out strikes inside its own territory to weed out Talibans who eventually turned aganist Pakistan as well.The question is-"Is this policy of military action in so large a scale necessary for Pakistan??" I mean it looks like a knee-jerk reaction of Talibans.Before American War on terror ,there was no militant attacks in Pakistan and now,well we all know.Was it entirely necessary for Pakistan to get involved with whatever America was doin in Afganistan??The border could have been sealed.Security could have been increased,why go on all-out offensive??? It is like putting a stick to the hornet's nest.The result is loss of lives of people of Pakistan. Why????

 

[waraich66]

I did not want to go off topic my friend but had to comment here since you seem to find nothing wrong in Israeli State level atrocities since decades and cannot seem to connect the dots with militancy, extremism and now terrorism.

Israel has created very difficult living conditions for Palestinians and is not stopping work on additional settlements which are illegal as per U.N. charter. Actually there are many things which U.N. wanted to pass a resolution about but guess who stepped in?

USA blindly vetoes on behalf of Israelis so that makes people see USA as pretty much the one force which opposes what most of the world wants to do about the Palestinian conflict.
Facts speak for themselves so i have an interesting link which documents how many times US alone has vetoed a proposal while most of the countries were trying to condemn Israeli aggression or trying to make Israel comply with Geneva conventions, respect of holy places, basic human rights of Palestinians....All Vetoed by USA.

U.S. Vetoes of UN Resolutions Critical of Israel

To pretend that Israel has not been brutal and highhanded and that USA does not support Israel unconditionally is perhaps a bit too much when there have been countless examples of both, especially in face of condemnation from most of the world...and then to wonder why there is so much blame on USA and so much resentment is a cherry on top.

Please understand that when all avenues of hope are eliminated...a desperate people will turn to desperate means.
The Militants groups sprouting is not something desirable but when the world was unable to step in and restrain Israel despite an overwhelming majority convinced of Israeli injustices on many occasions...such things were bound to happen.
These people are no more different from IRA but their cause is something which most of the world agreed to but failed to intervene or even condemn via a UN resolution...thanks to the many vetoes and active financial/military support of USA.

This background and setting resulted in Arab and Muslim youth being full of hatred for USA-Israel alliance, which they perceived as anti Palestinian and anti Muslim in nature.
No one tries to stone armed soldiers and Tanks until one is full of hatred...hatred which you cannot simply label as nonsense...it stems from injustices spanning decades...injustices or oppression which even most of the world was ready to condemn, except USA which was willing to stand by its strategic ally despite world sentiment.

All this has been used by Al-Qaeda which justifies its actions as an eye for an eye...whereas we consider Al-Qaeda evil and worthy of hellfire...we cannot turn a blind eye to the situation which made Al-Qaeda gain support and access to angry youth who saw so many injustices and whose life was consumed with hate and vengeance...
The damage done to the Muslim world by Al-Qaeda and associates is greater than anything the west or Israelis have to face...therefore when we do this analysis we are not blind or emotional, we are being realistic and looking at the root cause which needs to be addressed.

Mods, my apologies for going off topic but i had to answer here.

Great analysis brother , Ink of scholar is more precious then blood of Shaheed.

 

[waraich66]

I just dont understand one thing.Well lemme explain my question.

Im assuming that there was no or very less militant related problems in Pakistan before the American declaration of so called War on terror(frankly speaking,I think the American actions r more terrorizing).The Pakistan Army carried out strikes inside its own territory to weed out Talibans who eventually turned aganist Pakistan as well.The question is-"Is this policy of military action in so large a scale necessary for Pakistan??" I mean it looks like a knee-jerk reaction of Talibans.Before American War on terror ,there was no militant attacks in Pakistan and now,well we all know.Was it entirely necessary for Pakistan to get involved with whatever America was doin in Afganistan??The border could have been sealed.Security could have been increased,why go on all-out offensive??? It is like putting a stick to the hornet's nest.The result is loss of lives of people of Pakistan. Why????

All talaban (good talaban ) are not creating problem or terrorism inside Pakistan , only bad talaban which could not analyse the US/Israel moves to creat kiosk in muslim countries weaken their economies and capture their oil resources ,Iraq and Afghanistan are recent examples before they supported Saddam to weaken Iranian power and used Arabs for their plan.

War between Israel and Muslim Ummah started in 1924 when Brithishers broken the Arab states and created Israel .It is faith of all muslim if God gave them 1000 lives they would love to sacrifice for islam and holy places Makkah Madina, Qibla Awal(Palestine).

Basically muslim ummah is at war with Israel.It is responsibility of family of nation try to understand the root cause of conflict and try to resolve it peacefully .I am sure their will be no valid reson for jehad bil saif left after resolution of Palestine dispute except Kashmir.

 

[dextr]

All talaban (good talaban ) are not creating problem or terrorism inside Pakistan , only bad talaban which could not analyse the US/Israel moves to creat kiosk in muslim countries weaken their economies and capture their oil resources ,Iraq and Afghanistan are recent examples before they supported Saddam to weaken Iranian power and used Arabs for their plan.

War between Israel and Muslim Ummah started in 1924 when Brithishers broken the Arab states and created Israel .It is faith of all muslim if God gave them 1000 lives they would love to sacrifice for islam and holy places Makkah Madina, Qibla Awal(Palestine).

Basically muslim ummah is at war with Israel.It is responsibility of family of nation try to understand the root cause of conflict and try to resolve it peacefully .I am sure their will be no valid reson for jehad bil saif left after resolution of Palestine dispute except Kashmir.

Alright so im safely assuming the slain militant chief Baitullah mehsud as one of the bad taleban as he is responsible for troubles in pakistan.But in his interviews he strongly said that he was fighting the pakistani army as it sided with America on its so called war on terror.Well things get really confusing at this point.So who is on which side actually?? or every organization is acting on its own behalf independent of each other's ideas finally all resulting in the loss of lives of common innocent people???If fighting against American oppression is the is the idea among the good Taleban then doesnt it make Baitullah Mehsud a good Taleban???
Can anyone here plz throw some light on this??

 

[Patriot]

There is no such thing as good taliban..period..wait the only good talibans are dead talibans.

 

[dextr]

There is no such thing as good taliban..period..wait the only good talibans are dead talibans.

hmm that sounds convincing..but eventually i get more confused getting these two kinda theories.
1.Good taliban and bad taliban theory
2.Good taliban =Dead taliban theory


I think we should try to know why any taliban at all??? Now that would be an interesting theory,but unfortunately will lead to more confusion...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Lets read out what this author ,a recently retired PA officer says about TTP and its slain leader Baitullah Mehsood

Isnt it a fact that Baitullah Mehsood was a raving homocidal maniac terroist mediaval barbarian who killed Benzir Bhutto along with several other ppl in the bid, Bombed the Marriot hotel killing many civilians including foreigners??

didnt he destroyed girl schools and music shops and behead pak army personels and its sysmpathisers including some of ur SSG guys in public ceremonies , web videos of which illicit such horror and take us back to mediaval ages??

Didnt he flout all agreements with the GOP that finally focred an army offesive, so much for a man of words??

It appears that this officer views BM differently, and does not believe BM authorized suicide bombings, but nonetheless views him as an enemy. He isn't suggesting that he lay down arms in front of him or that the PA should not fight BM and enforce the writ of the Pakistani state, but merely expressing admiration for BM as a worthy nemesis.

I do not know what led him to believe that BM was not responsible for the atrocities committed. BM was considered a very charismatic figure that was able to unite the TTP, and it is possible that this officer met him and BM was convincing enough in his lies to convey the impression that he was not responsible for the atrocities. But the main point here is that regardless of what kind of enemy this officer saw BM as, he did see him as an enemy and at no point does he suggest that the PA should not be fighting to enforce state writ, and at no point does he condone acts of terrorism, and in fact strongly condemns them.

Again the authors goes on to add :

I guess he meant since Tiliban follows all norm Geneva coventions before beheading its prisioners ,PA shows similar courtesy and shoul not humiliate them and give them due respect an honourable adversary deservers.

Yes, regardless of whether the Taliban follow the Geneva conventions or not, the PA should follow them as much as possible. I see this offices letter, and the opinions of the CO of the FATA operations as pointed out by him, as illustrative of how the PA is an honorable fighting force, that will stick to doing that which is right and not stoop to the levels of some others.

Yes i understand that his opinions were changed for ever after Army mosque bombings ,but as army officer fighting TTP he took way too long to change his own views about the terrorist he was fighting aganist for long time . I'm sure if there hadn't been the case of Army mosque bombings , he would probably stayed on as an closet admirer of Baitullah Mehsood.And there lies danger. This confused mindset and obiviouds inablilty is on the focus here .It only show the kind of sympathies TTP holds even among PA officer class.I'm sure this author isnt the only one with such unbalanced views of TTP and there probably many more and chances are they haven't changed their mindset and force to rethink like the author did even after the Army mosque incident.

You are confusing admiration for BM for his fighting prowess with some sort of sympathy with the TTP cause. Pakistani and Indian soldiers who have fought each other express admiration for the other side - that does not mean they will change sides and support the other.

At no point does he express sympathy for the Taliban cause.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

In my poor analysis, i find just one link between Isreal and Pakistan issues that suicide attacks has switch over from Israel to Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq and now in KSA also.
Certainly this is very big achievement of jews.They shrewdly reverse the suicide weapon over Muslim world

Do not make derogatory comments about an entire people (Jews). You will be banned next time. This sort of prejudice has no place in civilized society and discourse.

 

[Khajur]

You are confusing admiration for BM for his fighting prowess with some sort of sympathy with the TTP cause. Pakistani and Indian soldiers who have fought each other express admiration for the other side - that does not mean they will change sides and support the other.

At no point does he express sympathy for the Taliban cause.

I hope u are right as anything otherswise doesn't augur well for Pakistan

 

[Solomon2]

All this has been used by Al-Qaeda which justifies its actions as an eye for an eye...whereas we consider Al-Qaeda evil and worthy of hellfire...we cannot turn a blind eye to the situation which made Al-Qaeda gain support and access to angry youth who saw so many injustices and whose life was consumed with hate and vengeance...when we do this analysis we are not blindly hating Israel sitting far away from the land, we have faced the fruit of this conflict sitting many miles away.
We are being realistic and looking

So a connection exists because some Muslims are dissatisfied with the situation in the Middle East so they then attack Pakistan, and Pakistani Muslims respond both by attacking those "evil and worthy of hellfire" at home while seeking to appease them elsewhere?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I hope u are right as anything otherswise doesn't augur well for Pakistan

I don't see what conclusion you could draw from the article other than the one I outlined - therefore there is nothing to worry about.

 

[iPhone]

it's very admirable how this officer feels. In the face of great evil that doesn't distinguish between innocent people and foes and kills without any reason and mercy, Pakistan Army is fighting with great honor and courage and without any vengence. They're showing respect to these grave-digging, dead-exhuming barbarians and treating them like human beings.

Many of us on these forum boards have called for torture and painful death of these demented taliban of ttp. But I'm glad that while fighting this evil, our Pakistan Army and it's men are in synch with their humanity. And that's where we will defeat this evil. After all, that's what differs us from them, our humanity. What's the point of that victory against evil where we loose our humanity by stooping to their level and doing to them what they're doing to us and have done to us. Hats off to Pakistan Army.

 

[dextr]

it's very admirable how this officer feels. In the face of great evil that doesn't distinguish between innocent people and foes and kills without any reason and mercy, Pakistan Army is fighting with great honor and courage and without any vengence. They're showing respect to these grave-digging, dead-exhuming barbarians and treating them like human beings.

Many of us on these forum boards have called for torture and painful death of these demented taliban of ttp. But I'm glad that while fighting this evil, our Pakistan Army and it's men are in synch with their humanity. And that's where we will defeat this evil. After all, that's what differs us from them, our humanity. What's the point of that victory against evil where we loose our humanity by stooping to their level and doing to them what they're doing to us and have done to us. Hats off to Pakistan Army.

Well said.....

 

[waraich66]

Alright so im safely assuming the slain militant chief Baitullah mehsud as one of the bad taleban as he is responsible for troubles in pakistan.But in his interviews he strongly said that he was fighting the pakistani army as it sided with America on its so called war on terror.Well things get really confusing at this point.So who is on which side actually?? or every organization is acting on its own behalf independent of each other's ideas finally all resulting in the loss of lives of common innocent people???If fighting against American oppression is the is the idea among the good Taleban then doesnt it make Baitullah Mehsud a good Taleban???
Can anyone here plz throw some light on this??

Mullah Omar is over all talaban cammander fighting against US occupation , BM was not following his instructions ,its mean he was getting aid and instruction from enemies of Pakistan , that is reason he was called bad talaban.

US already offered 6 provinces to MO .its mean sooner or later their will be peace agreement between MO and US .BM group already lost ground and support is now history could never get power again in Waziristan.