FGFA vs J-XX

[Aamir Hussain]

The dead giveaway is no shadow of the Canard on the ground despite clear sunlight striking the folks standing on the hanger floor.

 

[cross1993]

FGFA? the silent flanker..... o(╯□&#9584o

T50 is not a full 5th-generation stealth fighter. ——YangWei (Chief architect of the J-XX)

 

[Storm Force]

Cross

The PAK FA may not be true stealth BUT it least the Russians have an engine

The JXX is stil flying with russian engines..

pak fa defo looks smaller and leaner and more agile than JXX. JXX actually looks too big and cumbersome

 

[xuwei]

Cross

The PAK FA may not be true stealth BUT it least the Russians have an engine

The JXX is stil flying with russian engines..

pak fa defo looks smaller and leaner and more agile than JXX. JXX actually looks too big and cumbersome

engine is a subsystem,we still have 5 years to improve it.but Aerodynamic exterior can't change.
As you guy don't belive China will develope 5'th G fighter so quikely before,Don't use a few years,China will also give you a suprise.

 

[Storm Force]

Will not be surprised when it happens. When you have a $5 trillion GDP anything is possible even 6th gen

 

[cross1993]

Time will tell.We can come up with an engine sufficient for the airframe to reach its potential.

The F-22 has been the bench mark that Chengdu and Shenyang designers have been targeting from the beginning. Openly PLAAF officials have talked of the program being based on four performance goals, also known as 4S, these being Stealth, Supercruise, Super-Maneuverability, and Short Take-Off.
Reviewing the statements of He Weirong Deputy Commander of the Chinese Air Force last year, this fighter is supposed to be operational by 2017. This plane is a long way from being ready for production so we still have time.

 

[waz]

Cross

The PAK FA may not be true stealth BUT it least the Russians have an engine

The JXX is stil flying with russian engines..

pak fa defo looks smaller and leaner and more agile than JXX. JXX actually looks too big and cumbersome

No one knows that to be a fact. In actual fact people don't know a great deal about this plane full stop.

 

[Srinivas]

Russian stealth technology and engines are imported by China to design J-XX and the same technology may be a better one will be used in Russian and Indian joint venture so naturally FGFA scores more points than J-XX.
The other aspect is India is getting western avionic suite through MMRCA so i think FGFA has high expectations than J-XX.

 

[Parashuram1]

FGFA? the silent flanker..... o(╯□&#9584o

FGFA is not a full 5th-generation stealth fighter. ——YangWei (Chief architect of the J-XX)

I doubt that the man has much credibility to discredit Russian engineering despite his senior post within the field. Having money such as yourself is one thing but if one goes by the history and greater capabilities, Russian engineering has been far ahead of Asian engineering in both cases of China and India.

Hence, this is more like industrial/corporate mindgames that are common between competing firms from different countries. Despite being Americans in terms of capabilities, Russia does have immense aeronautic capability.

 

[Parashuram1]

cockpit : PAK FA Vs J-20

The Russian cockpit is that of Su-35 BM as opposed to what you quote here. Russians are yet to release the actualy photographs of their 5th generation aircraft's cockpit just as your country is. Can you tell that these pictures are that of the real aircrafts in both the countries being tested?

 

[tallboy123]

cockpit : PAK FA Vs J-20

That's Su-35BM Cockpit not PAK FA...

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Russian stealth technology and engines are imported by China to design J-XX and the same technology may be a better one will be used in Russian and Indian joint venture so naturally FGFA scores more points than J-XX.
The other aspect is India is getting western avionic suite through MMRCA so i think FGFA has high expectations than J-XX.

J-XX will equip with WS engine, no Russian engine.

And no proof that Russian has given its stealth technology to us, and their PAKFA isn't stealthy at all. I doubt that they have even mastered how to make the stealth fighter.

 

[Parashuram1]

J-XX will equip with WS engine, no Russian engine.

And no proof that Russian has given its stealth technology to us, and their PAKFA isn't stealthy at all. I doubt that they have even mastered how to make the stealth fighter.

My man, please do not go by first looks. Russians have been involved in their programme far earlier than Chinese have since the last days of Soviet Union, with considerably more know how. Economy can welcome new innovators but cannot increase knowledge immediately.

As much as I find it odd to be talking on behalf of Russians, you speaking something like this by just looking at the very first prototype of an aircraft that has seen first flight testing, is wrong. The Russians are yet to provide an internal bay at the belly for their weapon systems or even provide a possible different inlet design for future prototypes. Remember that they have as much time as they want to design this as currently their arsenal is being upgraded and there is no aerial threat as of now for such rapid deployment.

Speaking of true stealth, what do you have to say about the gigantic forward canards and additional projections at the tail end that equally compromise stealth and otherwise very elegantly designed fighter aircraft by the Chengdu Enterprises? Not to mention very large dimensions compared to the American F-22 Raptor.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

My man, please do not go by first looks. Russians have been involved in their programme far earlier than Chinese have since the last days of Soviet Union, with considerably more know how. Economy can welcome new innovators but cannot increase knowledge immediately.

As much as I find it odd to be talking on behalf of Russians, you speaking something like this by just looking at the very first prototype of an aircraft that has seen first flight testing, is wrong. The Russians are yet to provide an internal bay at the belly for their weapon systems or even provide a possible different inlet design for future prototypes. Remember that they have as much time as they want to design this as currently their arsenal is being upgraded and there is no aerial threat as of now for such rapid deployment.

Speaking of true stealth, what do you have to say about the gigantic forward canards and additional projections at the tail end that equally compromise stealth and otherwise very elegantly designed fighter aircraft by the Chengdu Enterprises? Not to mention very large dimensions compared to the American F-22 Raptor.

Of course, they started at an earlier point. However, the collapse of USSR brought them 10-20 years of backward, even their military industry. They even have problems to deploy a SLBM, whereas China has already 6 type 094 in service and working on their next gen SSBN.

China is making a huge step further, and Russia keeps feeding on what USSR left for them.

 

[ptldM3]

FGFA? the silent flanker..... o(╯□&#9584o

FGFA is not a full 5th-generation stealth fighter. ——YangWei (Chief architect of the J-XX)

YangWei needs to stop embarrassing himself, the FGFA does not yet exist, the aircraft he is referring to is the pak-fa T-50 serial number 1 or T-50-1 which is constructed for aerodynamic tests and not for low observability ('stealth') and to be fair its not even treated with RAM. At least six airframes will be constructed, among those six or more airframes we will see a dedicated "LO" model.

Further, YangWei should know better than to say such outlandish things just by looking at a few pictures, I have a feeling that YangWei is basing his opinion on the PAK-FA's intakes, which of course may likely see redesign changes, the point is he should know better because even the F-15 silent eagle is said to be equal to the F-35 in frontal RCS, take a look:

Video: Boeing unveils the "stealthy" F-15 Silent Eagle - The DEW Line

First, Boeing says the F-15SE can match the frontal-aspect stealth performance of the export version of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The precise level stealth allowed to be exported to foreign countries is still to be determined by the US authorities who govern technology transfer rules. Will international F-35 customers be disappointed if they find out a fourth-generation fighter can match their fight-generation fighter's head-on performance?

The F-15 silent eagle certainly doesn't look 'stealthy' with it's intake inline with its intake compressor but Boeing solved this problem of the compressor blade returning radar signals to the original source by radar blockers, something Boeing did with the Super Hornet as well. The PAK-FA has nothing that would compromise it's rcs like 90° angles which would cause waves to bounce off of the aircraft's surface, this would be a corner reflecting effect. The PAK-FA's design philosophy is similar to aircraft like the B-2, F-22 and F-35 as apposed to aircraft like the F-117. This means the PAK-FA relies on smooth curvatures to dissipate radar waves which eventually traverse the aircraft's leading edges. Take for example the B-2's cockpit and surrounding fuselage or something like an IRST housing, both surfaces are rounded but once a radar wave or beam hits these objects it doesn't always simply bounce off, radar waves often travel around objects or behind objects something that is referred to as a 'creeping wave' so when engineers designed the B-2's cockpit, or the PAK-FA's under fuselage they did do with this in mind, the goal is cause creeping waves to traverse off of objects like and IRST and dissipate off of other parts of the aircraft, parts such as the leading edges.

Looking at the pak-fa everything is consistent with a so called 'stealth' aircraft, canted or V shaped vertical tails, weapons bays, sloped nose, sloped fuselage all around, and even small details in wing geometry such as 'saw tooth' edges are present to reduce diffraction effects, than again fanboys wouldn't know this.

Lets take a look at these points and the aircraft's general geometry:



There is at least 13 points to reduce diffraction with another four probable points, if you are still confused with what I’m talking about think of the B-2 or F-22, more specifically the B-2, there is a reason for it's strange wing design.

Other than that the PAK-FA has AESA, OLS, TVC not to mention both L and X band radars which is a first for any fighter, ext ect. Call it what you will whether it be a 'silent flanker' or 'not a full 5th-generation stealth fighter' the designers of the aircraft are not here to appease you or YangWei, what Wei thinks is irrelevant.