FGFA vs J-XX

[S10]

Really, did China stop purchasing Russian engines as of 2007? Where did you read this? Last time I heard, China is still very dependent on Russian tech

Then you have heard wrong. The last batch of AL-31F was purchased in 2007. The only other contracts at the moment are the sales of IL-76, Ka-28 and Mi-17. WS-10A has already seen service with J-11B and is currently in the process of being certified for J-10B.

 

[S10]

According to an interview publicised in January 2007 with J-10 pilot Li Cunbao (李存&#23453, the J-10 had not yet been equipped with the domestic WS-10 engine because although the WS-10 could match the performance of its Russian counterpart (the AL-31), there was a serious drawback; the WS-10 took longer to "spool up", i.e. there was a delay in reaching the same thrust output as the Russian engine. Another significant drawback of the WS-10 was the lack of a FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) system, although this has since been addressed.

Congratualtions, you just reported a news that's closing on 3 years old. Maybe DRDO or HAL can't accompolish anything in 3 years so your thought pattern can't keep up. J-11B is already equipped with WS-10A, and that was from the beginning of this year. It was reported by CCTV during evening news.

 

[S10]

Janes, regarded as a very credible source interviewed Russian engineers working on the J-10. The Russian engineers stated the China had access to the Lavi. Im not alowed to post URL's yet, so just search Janes. Perhaps A.V. Can post it.

China had access to Israeli expertises, not the plane itself. Americans were watching like hawks. All technical exchanges were done under the table.

I can't assure you the Pak Fa will fly February, that just what Konstantin Makiyenko the deputy head of the Moscow-based Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies said. In his own words:

"even with delays, the plane would likely make its first flight by January or February."

A member on Idia defence told me that if the Pak Fa isn't ready to fly by this time next year, Idia will withdraw from the program, he didn't give me a link, but if that is indeed true i have all the confidence in the world the Pak Fa will take to the skys soon.

Oh somone said it, then it must be true. I'm willing to bet it won't fly in January.

Inferior to what? Whatever avionics China is getting is downgraded version of what Russia uses. For example, the SU-35 is superior to the SU-30mki. The MKI uses some western avionics while the SU-35 uses all Russian avionics.

Like i said earlier Russia already built two models of AESA radar, also Russian jammers such as the SAP-518 are atleast as good as any western systems. Don't forget most of the important avionics on the SU-30MKI are Russian. I would like to see a link of China claiming Russian avionics are "inferior", if you do provide a link i'll take it with a grain of salt considering China is always interested in Russian technology/avionics. However, Russia is now refusing to sell or share some of its technology to China, hence SU-33.

How did China "ditch" the SU-27sk? The J-11 is a customized SU-27SK. There is no question that the J-11 is superior to the SU-27SK. However, the SU-27SK is only the entry level fighter of the Russian AirForce. Russia operates the SU-35 BM a 4++ gen fighter, which is rediculously better than the SU-27SK and easily better than the J-11.

China can say whatever they want about Russian avionics the fact of the matter is they always end up either: buying, copying, or stealing Russian technology.

China's pirating of Russian technology is One of the Reasons Russia denied China the sales of the SU-33.

Russia has stoped selling sensitive avionics to China. As a result, China has no other choices but to start producing its own systems.

Russia's displeasure with China's pirating of Russian technology: not allowed to post URL, so search:
igorrgroup.blogspot.com

First of all, Russian avionics have never been on par with Europe and United States, not in the past, not now and certainly won't in the future. Currently, Russia is living off the old treasury box left by the Soviet Union. To claim that Russians suddenly made a great advance in technology that puts them shoulder to shoulder with the West is laughable at best.

China's previous interest in Russian systems was due to its inability to purchase from United States and European due to arms embargo, not because they put your technology in high regard. In the 1980's, China was in the process of purchasing F-16 and UH-60 Blackhawks from U.S. Due to an unfortunate incident at Tiananmen, an arms embargo was placed on China. China had to settle for Su-27 and Mi-17 from Russia. Blackhawks in China are nearly 20 years old, and yet they're still performing better than the latest Mi-17 from Russia. Now that China can develop on its own, the market share will naturally shrink for you.

So your story is that Russia is not willing to sell to China, then why did they try to market the Su-35 in the Zhuhai Airshow? Normally when somebody isn't willing to sell, they don't market their product. Also, why would China buy from you when it can make its own?

According to deagel, China has ordered over 100 AL-31F's this past February. Source: well again i'm not alloud to post URL's yet, so search: deagel

 

[ptldM3]

Well, since you are AV, just using a different account, why don't you sign in again with your other 1/2? . Also, I don't recall ever seeing such an article on Janes so again, no official link=no faith.

I'm not A.V. you don't beleive me, check India defence.

Again i'm not alloud to post URL's so just copy and past the following: J-10 Russian engineers

It should be the second source if you're using yahoo.

China had access to Israeli expertises, not the plane itself. Americans were watching like hawks. All technical exchanges were done under the table.

Yea, I beleive you over Janes....

First of all, Russian avionics have never been on par with Europe and United States, not in the past, not now and certainly won't in the future. Currently, Russia is living off the old treasury box left by the Soviet Union. To claim that Russians suddenly made a great advance in technology that puts them shoulder to shoulder with the West is laughable at best.

Really....and you know this how? Clearly you listen to too much American propoganda. Americans have always made stupid statments without knowing the capabilities of Russia. American always thought they had better guidence systems on their ICBM's. However, after the callapes of the Soviet Union one American engineer said Russia had better guidence systems after he go to examine Russian's ICBM's.

China's previous interest in Russian systems was due to its inability to purchase from United States and European due to arms embargo, not because they put your technology in high regard. In the 1980's, China was in the process of purchasing F-16 and UH-60 Blackhawks from U.S. Due to an unfortunate incident at Tiananmen, an arms embargo was placed on China. China had to settle for Su-27 and Mi-17 from Russia. Blackhawks in China are nearly 20 years old, and yet they're still performing better than the latest Mi-17 from Russia. Now that China can develop on its own, the market share will naturally shrink for you.

In the 1980's Russia and China were enemies, hence the border conflict, that why China went to the US.

China had to settle? The SU-27 was a top of the line fighter, it is much better than the mig-29 and the German Mig-29's were found to be superior in close range combat and just slightly worse from bvr compared to western fighters. Several things need to be taken into account, German Mig-29's had inferior avionics compared to Russian Mig-29's, and The SU-27 had a much better radar than the Mig-29, hence if the Mig-29 could hold its own agains American planes than the SU-27 would definately be able to hold its ground.

So how is the Black hawk better than the MI-17?

Is it troop capacity, nope Mi-17 can carry 32 passengers, black hawk only 14.

Is it service ceiling, nope MI-17 has a slight edge of about 700 feet.

Is it rate of climb, nope Mi-17 dominates the black Hawk to the tune of 700 ft/min compared to 1,575 ft/min.

Is it range, nope Black Hawk has a range of 600km, the MI-17 has a range of 950km

The only edvatage the Black Hawk has is speed.

Do yourself a favore, stop making crap up, so you dont get embaressed again.

So your story is that Russia is not willing to sell to China, then why did they try to market the Su-35 in the Zhuhai Airshow? Normally when somebody isn't willing to sell, they don't market their product. Also, why would China buy from you when it can make its own?

That was in 2006. Russia has recently denied the sale of the SU-33. Why would China buy from Russia if it can make their own? Perhapes they would have a difficult time. When China wanted to buy the SU-33 they only wanted 7, which makes no sense, whatsoever. The Russians knew they would try to reverse engineer them. Building fighters esspecialy naval fighters isn't as easy as you may think. It would take years to built a naval J-11.

Use your other account to post the URL. You've been telling us to check websites, yet won't provide anything. Sorry, but that just won't do.

I'm not A.V. ckeck India defence. I would love to provide links, it would definately shut many people up. However, i'm a new member.

Stop being lazy and past: J-10 Russian engineers

If you dont past the link then you're just trying to avoid the facts, and that's your problem.

 

[S10]

I'm not A.V. you don't beleive me, check India defence.

Again i'm not alloud to post URL's so just copy and past the following: J-10 Russian engineers

It should be the second source if you're using yahoo.

Jian-10 (J-10, F-10) Multirole Fighter Aircraft - SinoDefence.com

Israel provided China with analysis of FBW system as well as aerodynamic design. No parts were ever exchanged. This is also stated in J-10's documentry aired by CCTV.

http://space.tv.cctv.com/video/VIDE1235196299365192

Yea, I beleive you over Janes....

Janes had dropped the ball more than once in recent years regarding China. They thought J-10B was a twin seater at one point. When to comes to China's military news, official state televsion is more reliable than Janes.

Really....and you know this how? Clearly you listen to too much American propoganda. Americans have always made stupid statments without knowing the capabilities of Russia. American always thought they had better guidence systems on their ICBM's. However, after the callapes of the Soviet Union one American engineer said Russia had better guidence systems after he go to examine Russian's ICBM's.

You better provided evidence where the supposed "American" engineers stated that. As far as combat history goes, Russian made goods have always been inferior. In fact, I would say countries with Russian made systems have always been massacred on the battlefield. Simply, Russians can't live up to their hype.

In the 1980's Russia and China were enemies, hence the border conflict, that why China went to the US.

China had to settle? The SU-27 was a top of the line fighter, it is much better than the mig-29 and the German Mig-29's were found to be superior in close range combat and just slightly worse from bvr compared to western fighters. Several things need to be taken into account, German Mig-29's had inferior avionics compared to Russian Mig-29's, and The SU-27 had a much better radar than the Mig-29, hence if the Mig-29 could hold its own agains American planes than the SU-27 would definately be able to hold its ground.

So how is the Black hawk better than the MI-17?

Is it troop capacity, nope Mi-17 can carry 32 passengers, black hawk only 14.

Is it service ceiling, nope MI-17 has a slight edge of about 700 feet.

Is it rate of climb, nope Mi-17 dominates the black Hawk to the tune of 700 ft/min compared to 1,575 ft/min.

Is it range, nope Black Hawk has a range of 600km, the MI-17 has a range of 950km

The only edvatage the Black Hawk has is speed.

Do yourself a favore, stop making crap up, so you dont get embaressed again.

If you weren't so butt hurt, there are plenty of interviews on Chinese state television. China has been trying to get the arms embargo lifted for years, because the military had always wanted Western systems. China bought Su-27 because it had no other choice, not because they were eager to do it. Had American not imposed embargo, F-16 would have been purchased.

Paper specifications mean little. Also, you seem completely ignorant to the fact that Mi-17 has demonstrated itself to be less reliable than 20 year old Blackhawks. In Chengdu military region, only Blackhawks are capable of operations in Tibet. Again, Mi-17 is bought because China can't get anymore Blackhawks.

So far you made claims you have not provided links for, and yet you are telling people to provide evidence to counter your baseless claims. Broken logic much?

That was in 2006. Russia has recently denied the sale of the SU-33. Why would China buy from Russia if it can make their own? Perhapes they would have a difficult time. When China wanted to buy the SU-33 they only wanted 7, which makes no sense, whatsoever. The Russians knew they would try to reverse engineer them. Building fighters esspecialy naval fighters isn't as easy as you may think. It would take years to built a naval J-11.

I'm not A.V. ckeck India defence. I would love to provide links, it would definately shut many people up. However, i'm a new member.

Stop being lazy and past: J-10 Russian engineers

If you dont past the link then you're just trying to avoid the facts, and that's your problem.

You are the one that come on here and make claims that J-10 is a Lavi copy, and that Russian systems are superior to American ones. Yet when people express skepticism, you throw a hissy fit and tell people to back up their statement. Have you ever studied logic? Heard of reverse onus?

 

[ptldM3]

Jian-10 (J-10, F-10) Multirole Fighter Aircraft - SinoDefence.com

Israel provided China with analysis of FBW system as well as aerodynamic design. No parts were ever exchanged. This is also stated in J-10's documentry aired by CCTV.

Because of America Israel denies they ever provided the Lavi, but like i said earlier Janes interviewed a Russian engineers working on the J-10 and he acknowledged the Lavi was used.

Janes had dropped the ball more than once in recent years regarding China. They thought J-10B was a twin seater at one point. When to comes to China's military news, official state televsion is more reliable than Janes.

Listen, it's a Russian engineer that worked on the J-10 that they interviewed, it's not speulation. I'm sure they did a full backround investigation before they interview him, so it's not so much Janes but rather the engineer that worked directly on the J-10.

You better provided evidence where the supposed "American" engineers stated that. As far as combat history goes, Russian made goods have always been inferior. In fact, I would say countries with Russian made systems have always been massacred on the battlefield. Simply, Russians can't live up to their hype.

I dont have a link, this was on television interview, some years back. As for Russian systems being inferior. The US goes to war with 3rd world countries. Countries like Iraq had a larg military. However, the Iraqi military was poorly trained and equiped. Iraq had no awacs. Furthermore, Iraqi fighter pilots often lost their sense of orientations and flew into the ground. Another thing, most of Iraq's tanks were OLD T-55-T54's, Iraq had very few T-72's, and much of Iraq's tank force was destroyed from the air.

One American general said if the US operated Iraqi tanks, and Iraq would have operated the Abrams tanks; the outcome would have been the same.

I can't give a link but this was a documentary from History Channel.

What about the Korean War? the F-86 had a much better kill ration over the Mig-15, and thats because American pilots were aces from WWII, were as Korean and Chinese pilots hardly knew how to fly. However, when Russia send their best Aces they spanked the F-86's one Russian pilot had 21 kills another had 19, and another 17.

It came down to training, planing, and better leadership.

If you weren't so butt hurt, there are plenty of interviews on Chinese state television. China has been trying to get the arms embargo lifted for years, because the military had always wanted Western systems. China bought Su-27 because it had no other choice, not because they were eager to do it. Had American not imposed embargo, F-16 would have been purchased.

Whats with you and *****? Anyways, any counrty with an arms embargo would want it lifted. Chinese military isn't capable of producing world class technology, thats why they will go to anyone willing to sell. And again China and Russia had bad relations during the 60's, 70's, and 80's.

Paper specifications mean little. Also, you seem completely ignorant to the fact that Mi-17 has demonstrated itself to be less reliable than 20 year old Blackhawks. In Chengdu military region, only Blackhawks are capable of operations in Tibet. Again, Mi-17 is bought because China can't get anymore Blackhawks.

Wouldn't it just have been easier to say you got owned? Give me some proof that says the Black Hawk is more reliable. Russian aircraft are known for their reliability. They usually require less maintanance than their American counterparts. The US had better engines that had a longer service life. However, Russian engines such as the RD-33 now have a 2.5 longer service life. Also with the MI-17's higher altitude, how is it that the Blackhawk is only capable of operating in Tibet?

A side not, an MI-26 was used to retrieve a Chinook from Iraq because nothing in the US inventory could do the job.

So far you made claims you have not provided links for, and yet you are telling people to provide evidence to counter your baseless claims. Broken logic much?

Are you really as slow as you sound? How many times do i need to tell you, i can't post URL's! Get it through your head!

I find it pethetic that you bash me for not having links when you know damn well the site doesn't permit me post any direct links.

I told you were you can find all of the information, so it's not like i'm not providing anything. If you weren't so damn lazy you would search the sources i provided.

You are the one that come on here and make claims that J-10 is a Lavi copy, and that Russian systems are superior to American ones. Yet when people express skepticism, you throw a hissy fit and tell people to back up their statement. Have you ever studied logic? Heard of reverse onus?

I never said Russian systems are superior, i said an American engineer said that Russian ICBM's had a better guidence system.

It's you saying US systems are superior. Americans will say their technology is better and Russians will say their technology is better and Pakistan will say US technology is better for the simple fact that they operate US hardwar. No country is flat out better, the US may excel in one field were as Russia may excel in another field.

Edit: It's clear you and i have different viewpoint, so lets leave it at that. This argument isn't getting anywear.

 

[Moscow]

A.V buddy, there really wasn't a need for you to come back as a new member to remain anonymous , for we all know it 's you!

As for the J-10, I know, we all know, that it resembles the Lavi, but how can you prove it so with official specs? You can't can you? It's all speculation, by noobs and skeptics alike.

Also, we don't hire "Russian" engineers, we hire "Soviet" engineers who quit their jobs in their motherland because it couldn't afford to pay their dinner . Now, they work permanently for the PRC and should really be called "Chinese." .

As for the "Abovetopsecret" link, I personally think it's legitimate, tell me why you think it's bullcrap, I'll be glad to hear from you.

To be honest, I had faith in the PAK-FA project. But now that's it's overrun by Indians and the fact that I had highly anticipated for it to fly in the past 2-3 years really ruined my confidence and my patience, it really did. How can you assure me that the PAK will fly next Feb? Can you assure me that the engineers won't run out of dinner money before then? . Just joking btw.

buddy i am not your buddy and you seemed to join pdf on oct 2009 look at my joining date and stop the bs about my identity i have long been here and everybody knows me well enough if you have any problem with my identity then ask the webmaster or some senior mods like AM,kasrkin they know exactly where i come from and whats my identity so now just shut up and concentrate on the debate
and about PTDM3 i know him as well from another forum so keep your ignorant self to yourself and no not try to destroy the atmosphere here .

 

[Moscow]

Well, since you are AV, just using a different account, why don't you sign in again with your other 1/2? . Also, I don't recall ever seeing such an article on Janes so again, no official link=no faith.

stop the bs your post is being reported and about your link i cab post a hundred odd posts from my own forum discussion the pakfa and consider all of them to be genuine links from blogs ,or discussion forums are not considered genuine or true

give me a UAC,Knappo or sukhoi link if you can or stop the bs

 

[SBD-3]

buddy i am not your buddy and you seemed to join pdf on oct 2009 look at my joining date and stop the bs about my identity i have long been here and everybody knows me well enough if you have any problem with my identity then ask the webmaster or some senior mods like AM,kasrkin they know exactly where i come from and whats my identity so now just shut up and concentrate on the debate
and about PTDM3 i know him as well from another forum so keep your ignorant self to yourself and no not try to destroy the atmosphere here .

even a mindless dumb can find a treasure book earlier than a knowledgeable. But that doesn't mean that he ceases to be a dumb

 

[inferno]

PAK-FA unveiled

 

[inferno]

self delete

 

[inferno]

Some more PAK-FA pics

 

[lockh33d]

Because of America Israel denies they ever provided the Lavi, but like i said earlier Janes interviewed a Russian engineers working on the J-10 and he acknowledged the Lavi was used.



Listen, it's a Russian engineer that worked on the J-10 that they interviewed, it's not speulation. I'm sure they did a full backround investigation before they interview him, so it's not so much Janes but rather the engineer that worked directly on the J-10.




I dont have a link, this was on television interview, some years back. As for Russian systems being inferior. The US goes to war with 3rd world countries. Countries like Iraq had a larg military. However, the Iraqi military was poorly trained and equiped. Iraq had no awacs. Furthermore, Iraqi fighter pilots often lost their sense of orientations and flew into the ground. Another thing, most of Iraq's tanks were OLD T-55-T54's, Iraq had very few T-72's, and much of Iraq's tank force was destroyed from the air.

One American general said if the US operated Iraqi tanks, and Iraq would have operated the Abrams tanks; the outcome would have been the same.

I can't give a link but this was a documentary from History Channel.

What about the Korean War? the F-86 had a much better kill ration over the Mig-15, and thats because American pilots were aces from WWII, were as Korean and Chinese pilots hardly knew how to fly. However, when Russia send their best Aces they spanked the F-86's one Russian pilot had 21 kills another had 19, and another 17.

It came down to training, planing, and better leadership.




Whats with you and *****? Anyways, any counrty with an arms embargo would want it lifted. Chinese military isn't capable of producing world class technology, thats why they will go to anyone willing to sell. And again China and Russia had bad relations during the 60's, 70's, and 80's.




Wouldn't it just have been easier to say you got owned? Give me some proof that says the Black Hawk is more reliable. Russian aircraft are known for their reliability. They usually require less maintanance than their American counterparts. The US had better engines that had a longer service life. However, Russian engines such as the RD-33 now have a 2.5 longer service life. Also with the MI-17's higher altitude, how is it that the Blackhawk is only capable of operating in Tibet?

A side not, an MI-26 was used to retrieve a Chinook from Iraq because nothing in the US inventory could do the job.



Are you really as slow as you sound? How many times do i need to tell you, i can't post URL's! Get it through your head!

I find it pethetic that you bash me for not having links when you know damn well the site doesn't permit me post any direct links.

I told you were you can find all of the information, so it's not like i'm not providing anything. If you weren't so damn lazy you would search the sources i provided.





I never said Russian systems are superior, i said an American engineer said that Russian ICBM's had a better guidence system.

It's you saying US systems are superior. Americans will say their technology is better and Russians will say their technology is better and Pakistan will say US technology is better for the simple fact that they operate US hardwar. No country is flat out better, the US may excel in one field were as Russia may excel in another field.

Edit: It's clear you and i have different viewpoint, so lets leave it at that. This argument isn't getting anywear.

Interviewed a Russian engineer... Russians are NOT to be trusted, just like you guys are not to be trusted. Not a SINGLE credible link, or the effort to mimic a credible link as well as the fact of the so called "Promised" FGFA maiden flight date. I bet you my 2 cents that the planned Feb date is going to be further delayed next year, I bet you...

As for Russian avionics being superior, pal, Russia the tail of the world when it comes to electronic...Name me 1 company well known in the world that's based in Russia. Look, most, if not ALL, Russian jet fighters still base the majority of the avionics on ANALOG systems, where China, after buying your outdated MKK's and Su-27's, took them all out and went down the Western track, yes, we went digital. Take a look at your exported Su-30MKI for e.g



Now I know you're going to claim the 3 LCD's, but look below, analog systems are still being used!

Now, instead of telling us to look around the main site, such as "Go to Janes," how about being a bit more precise and make an effort like so:

ww.providemealink.com

If that doesn't work, take off 1 further w, like so:

w.providemealink.com

If that still doesn't work, then take off the last w, OK? Stop making excuses for yourself if you can't bring up anything.

 

[lockh33d]

buddy i am not your buddy and you seemed to join pdf on oct 2009 look at my joining date and stop the bs about my identity i have long been here and everybody knows me well enough if you have any problem with my identity then ask the webmaster or some senior mods like AM,kasrkin they know exactly where i come from and whats my identity so now just shut up and concentrate on the debate
and about PTDM3 i know him as well from another forum so keep your ignorant self to yourself and no not try to destroy the atmosphere here .

Everyone, I don't know you

 

[ptldM3]

Interviewed a Russian engineer... Russians are NOT to be trusted, just like you guys are not to be trusted.

Thats a general statment... do you actually think Janes pulled some random guy off the streets and interview him? Anyways you wana talk about trust lets talk about how China, a suposed allie of the Soviet Union attacked Russian troops on their own territory.

Not a SINGLE credible link, or the effort to mimic a credible link as well as the fact of the so called "Promised" FGFA maiden flight date. I bet you my 2 cents that the planned Feb date is going to be further delayed next year, I bet you...

And again, for the millionth time, how would you like me to give you a link? You want me to pull it out of thin air? I told you search Janes. I wish the site allowed me to post links but i can't.

As for Russian avionics being superior, pal, Russia the tail of the world when it comes to electronic....

Stop puting words in my mouth, when did i say Russian avionics are superior? The fact is Russia makes some damn good systems For example:

The X-band multimode phased array Irbis-E radar is supplied by Tikhomirov Scientific-Research Institute of Instrument Design (NIIP), based in Zhukovsky. Irbis-E is a high-performance radar designed for the Su-35 aircraft.

The 900mm passive phased array antenna is mounted on a hydraulic actuator for mechanical steering. The electronic steering provides azimuthal and elevation coverage of 60°. With both mechanical and electronic scanning the coverage is 120°.

The radar can detect low-observable and stealth aircraft, unmanned air vehicles and missiles with a radar cross section of 0.01m² at ranges to 90km. Radar modes include air-to-air, air-to-ground, air-to-sea, mapping, Doppler beam and synthetic aperture radar modes. It can detect and track up to 30 airborne targets with a radar cross section (RCS) of 3m² at ranges of 400km using track-while-scan mode.

The infrared search and track fire control system, OLS-35 IRST, includes an infrared sensor, laser rangefinder, target designator and television camera. The accuracy of the laser rangefinder is 5m CEP (circular error probability), to a maximum range of 20km against airborne targets and 30km against ground targets. The OLS-35 is a high-performance system with ±90° azimuthal and +60°/-15° elevation coverage.

"Irbis-E is a high-performance radar designed for the Su-35 aircraft."The system's acquisition range against a non-afterburning target is 50km forwards and 90km rearward. The Su-35 can also be fitted with a UOMZ Sapsan targeting and laser designation pod.

-Airforce technology.com



You're basing your opinion on the fact that American pilots shot down outdated Russian aircraft flown by incompedent morons. If MODERN Russian aircraft such as SU-35bm went to war again OLD American F-4's and A-4's flown by monkeys the Russian aircraft would come out victorious too.

Name me 1 company well known in the world that's based in Russia.

Most American companies such as Lockhead are not know outside the US. General Electric is a recognizable company because they built all sorts of civilian applications, Russian companies, on the other hand, are strictly military, so no dishwashers anytime soon....

Look, most, if not ALL, Russian jet fighters still base the majority of the avionics on ANALOG systems, where China, after buying your outdated MKK's and Su-27's, took them all out and went down the Western track, yes, we went digital. Take a look at your exported Su-30MKI for e.g

I hate to rain on your parade but google J-10 cockpit, then talk analog. The SU-34, SU-27SK, SU-30, SU-35, Mig-29K, and Mig-35 all use LCD technology and some fighters listed above have zero analog. Google is your friend.

Know the facts before you post trash, you'll spare yourself the humiliation.......

Now I know you're going to claim the 3 LCD's, but look below, analog systems are still being used!

Those analog systems were put in place because the pilots felt comfortable having a backup, btw my brother is a piliot. The aircraft would function just as well with out them. just an fyi, modern Russian cockpits look quite different to the pic you posted above.

Now, instead of telling us to look around the main site, such as "Go to Janes," how about being a bit more precise and make an effort like so:

ww.providemealink.com

If that doesn't work, take off 1 further w, like so:

w.providemealink.com

If that still doesn't work, then take off the last w, OK? Stop making excuses for yourself if you can't bring up anything.

I tryed that the other day, it didn't work! However, it appears i can finally use a real URL.


Chinese J-10 'benefited from the Lavi project' - Jane's Defence Systems News