Feminism has won - I miss the mutaween

[dalvash]

BTW, Saudi Arabian women rarely marry non-Saudi Arabians and if they do, they tend to marry other Arabs and Muslims. You have rare cases of Western converts marrying Saudi Arabian women (very sought after in those circles) or rare cases of Saudi Arabian women marrying Christian males/non-Muslim against the rules and traditions. That category is very rare.

I went to college with a half Saudi/half white girl. She didn't do hijab but was very religious. Her white mother converted to Islam. Every Arab guy was after her lol but she always said no to them. She didn't date at all. She was gorgeous, tall and had great features.

 

[Malik Alpha]

Change is way too fast but then again respectable Saudis and expats are avoiding going to such places with their families.

Btw this Color run was full of Filipinos and Hindus.

 

[HannibalBarca]

It entered at the same time as it entered the entire Muslim world more or less. It was just less prevalent.

Have in mind that Saudi Arabians, unlike the vast majority of Muslims, are very well well-off economically, very connected to the remaining world (West mainly), 100.000's having studied in the West, access to technology, internet etc. since ages ago. All this will have an impact. That coupled with KSA being governed with more strict and conservative rules than 90%+ of all Muslim countries, will result in a rise of liberalism, feminism etc.

I don't really see how other Muslims are going in the opposite direction? Even very conservative countries like Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen etc. are moving in the same direction.

BTW this is quite a troll thread from my part and relates to the previous discussions me @CamelGuy and a few other users used to have about feminism, liberalism, self-hating Arabs etc. KSA remains a conservative country and those entertainment events are not going to change it and actually I support the removal of many of those old stupid laws originating from the Sahwa era. I don't think that MbS is as stupid as to commit the same mistakes that the Shah did who was much more extreme in his reforms and did it 40-50+ years ago when the world was different and much less interconnected.

What you need to see is... the "Open" Muslim societies where such degeneracy was "OK" or at least... not controlled, Like Tunisia per example, Where Decades of "Openess" triggered a wave of "Conservatism"... that translated by current elected President (anti Western degeneracy advocate)... That even those who were "Open" to such behaviors are biting their own hands and hope for a more religious society...

And it started by 1 event... that opened the door to one more and one more...

But let's be honest... since Mbs... KSA seems to have open the door to that degeneracy... I remember... those Rave parties... that I never saw in KSA... or Those K-pop beta cuck party... and so on... Even vids from KSA youth and their "Unislamic behavior" are getting more and more present on social media... like the lasty of them... portraying a hijabi twerting at a public party...

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Change is way too fast but then again respectable Saudis and expats are avoiding going to such places with their families.

Btw this Color run was full of Filipinos and Hindus.

Turki al-Sheikh is going a bit overboard with his many "entertainment" ideas. At least things are changing on many (most) fronts for the better and the minority that is going overboard now, will learn to navigate eventually when such things become normal and out of date.

It is a funny thing. Cinemas were once prevalent all across KSA prior to the Sahwa era but when they got banned, people started watching everything they wanted at home, even banned material. Now with 1000's of cinemas being built across the country, it is like an old "gift" once opened being opened again.

If we are honest, many of the previous/some of the remaining current laws, have more to do with culture than religion (Islam) and mainly culture centered around Najd. For instance in the most conservative areas of Najd (say Buraidah), contrary to popular belief much of the "progressives" nowadays emerge in Najd (Riyadh being the center of it all alongside Jeddah), most women tend to wear a niqab and look at it as a religious obligation while other areas of KSA have different opinions about it. In the big cities you see a mixture of niqab, your average hijab and women just wearing abaya.

In a way KSA is not much different (for good and bad) from your average Muslim country, people just tend to have their own interpretation/viewpoint/ideal/non-ideal view of KSA. Very polarized. You have users here on PDF for example equating KSA with ISIS (lol) and then you have others who almost compare KSA with Sweden due to the recent reforms. Hardly ever a middle ground.

In reality 90%+ of the lives of the Saudi Arabian and Muslim expat has not changed, most are the same moderate (in lack of better word) people as always doing mostly the right things with moderation.

What you need to see is... the "Open" Muslim societies where such degeneracy was "OK" or at least... not controlled, Like Tunisia per example, Where Decades of "Openess" triggered a wave of "Conservatism"... that translated by current elected President (anti Western degeneracy advocate)... That even those who were "Open" to such behaviors are biting their own hands and hope for a more religious society...

And it started by 1 event... that opened the door to one more and one more...

But let's be honest... since Mbs... KSA seems to have open the door to that degeneracy... I remember... those Rave parties... that I never saw in KSA... or Those K-pop beta cuck party... and so on... Even vids from KSA youth and their "Unislamic behavior" are getting more and more present on social media... like the lasty of them... portraying a hijabi twerting at a public party...

This is the same vocal and loud minority that I talked about in this thread who are testing the limits nowadays due to recent changes giving them an opportunity to test the limits without much fear. However I would still not compare it with what has been going on in most Arab and Muslim countries for decades with alcohol being legal, mass-tourism from the West and everything this entails and what not.

Looking at it objectively, KSA is still much more Islamic (governed by Islamic law and practices) than the vast majority of Muslim countries. The entire jurisdiction (more or less, at least related to religious aspects, inheritance, marriage, divorce, criminal law etc.), most shops close during prayers 5 times a day etc.

I like everything that has changed for the better expect for some of the entertainment ideas of Turki Al-Sheikh where I would prefer (ideally) that men and women were apart during concerts. I would not import trash from abroad (singers) either ideally but I am the same person that would have banned fast food decades ago.

As for that Chinese pop nonsense, mostly teenagers (women). We need to thank Youtube and social media for that, but they will pass that stage in their life.

Just like many young/teenage straight Muslim men used to have that rap/hip-hop face at once point in their life. I mean, I liked to listen to 2pac, Biggie etc. when I was a kid as well, lol.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Turki al-Sheikh is going a bit overboard with his many "entertainment" ideas. At least things are changing on many (most) fronts for the better and the minority that is going overboard now, will learn to navigate eventually when such things become normal and out of date.

It is a funny thing. Cinemas were once prevalent all across KSA prior to the Sahwa era but when they got banned, people started watching everything they wanted at home, even banned material. Now with 1000's of cinemas being built across the country, it is like an old "gift" once opened being opened again.

If we are honest, many of the previous/some of the remaining current laws, have more to do with culture than religion (Islam) and mainly culture centered around Najd. For instance in the most conservative areas of Najd (say Buraidah), contrary to popular belief much of the "progressives" nowadays emerge in Najd (Riyadh being the center of it all alongside Jeddah), most women tend to wear a niqab and look at it as a religious obligation while other areas of KSA have different opinions about it. In the big cities you see a mixture of niqab, your average hijab and women just wearing abaya.

In a way KSA is not much different (for good and bad) from your average Muslim country, people just tend to have their own interpretation/viewpoint/ideal/non-ideal view of KSA. Very polarized. You have users here on PDF for example equating KSA with ISIS (lol) and then you have others who almost compare KSA with Sweden due to the recent reforms. Hardly ever a middle ground.

In reality 90%+ of the lives of the Saudi Arabian and Muslim expat has not changed, most are the same moderate (in lack of better word) people as always doing mostly the right things with moderation.



This is the same vocal and loud minority that I talked about in this thread who are testing the limits nowadays due to recent changes giving them an opportunity to test the limits without much fear. However I would still not compare it with what has been going on in most Arab and Muslim countries for decades with alcohol being legal, mass-tourism from the West and everything this entails and what not.

Looking at it objectively, KSA is still much more Islamic (governed by Islamic law and practices) than the vast majority of Muslim countries. The entire jurisdiction (more or less, at least related to religious aspects, inheritance, marriage, divorce, criminal law etc.), most shops close during prayers 5 times a day etc.

I like everything that has changed for the better expect for some of the entertainment ideas of Turki Al-Sheikh where I would prefer (ideally) that men and women were apart during concerts. I would not import trash from abroad (singers) either ideally but I am the same person that would have banned fast food decades ago.

As for that Chinese pop nonsense, mostly teenagers (women). We need to thank Youtube and social media for that, but they will pass that stage in their life.

Just like many young/teenage straight Muslim men used to have that rap/hip-hop face at once point in their life. I mean, I liked to listen to 2pac, Biggie etc. when I was a kid as well, lol.

Ofc KSA is not as some other Muslim societies yet( inshallah never)... The problem is that all other Muslim societies started by those little small things...
People got offended by those changes and behavior at first... but after 1 small generation... it's done... The old Gen couldn't control the new one... and the new one lost hope in their society and turn their hope to the Western one... and everything that goes with it...

And Many thing that I see happening in KSA in recent years ... is almost the same way those other "Open"Muslim societies used to do... It started with Parties... then Tourism... Then mass tourism... that push the society to adapt their own culture to accommodate the westerns... the Wannabe Degeneracy Advocate got out of their dark hole... and preached the Iblis words... till people found it "normal" and let ddown little by little their deen... and here we are today... a society searching for a way out...

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Ofc KSA is not as some other Muslim societies yet( inshallah never)... The problem is that all other Muslim societies started by those little small things...
People got offended by those changes and behavior at first... but after 1 small generation... it's done... The old Gen couldn't control the new one... and the new one lost hope in their society and turn their hope to the Western one... and everything that goes with it...

And Many thing that I see happening in KSA in recent years ... is almost the same way those other "Open"Muslim societies used to do... It started with Parties... then Tourism... Then mass tourism... that push the society to adapt their own culture to accommodate the westerns... the Wannabe Degeneracy Advocate got out of their dark hole... and preached the Iblis words... till people found it "normal" and let ddown little by little their deen... and here we are today... a society searching for a way out...

The progressive in me will tell myself that the old generation warned us against radio when that appeared, cars, later TV, after that Western music and internet.

I have full confidence that KSA will manage to preserve all the good aspects about its culture and society (not only talking about Islam here) but that the current reforms (most of them good and long overdue) will occur in a natural way (so far that is happening outside of a few incidents as we talked about) so that the extreme liberals/feminists and the lot wanting KSA to be a carbon copy of the West, will not go overboard and make themselves more powerful and relevant than they really are in reality.

Eventually it will be the same story as with everything that is new. I mean you had conservatives and even non-conservatives who never thought that women should drive, but now they are letting their daughters, wife, sisters, cousins etc. drive and even paying for their driving license and encouraging them.

وَكَذَٰلِكَ جَعَلْنَاكُمْ أُمَّةً وَسَطًا لِّتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ وَيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ عَلَيْكُمْ شَهِيدًا

Surat Al-Baqarah 2:143

Moderation is the center point between two extremes. Every one of our virtues sits at the moderate center of two vices that stray from it. Our goal should be to find that center and always return back to it when we move away from it.

 

[HannibalBarca]

The progressive in me will tell myself that the old generation warned us against radio when that appeared, cars, later TV, after that Western music and internet.

I have full confidence that KSA will manage to preserve all the good aspects about its culture and society (not only talking about Islam here) but that the current reforms (most of them good and long overdue) will occur in a natural way (so far that is happening outside of a few incidents as we talked about) so that the extreme liberals/feminists and the lot wanting KSA to be a carbon copy of the West, will not go overboard and make themselves more powerful and relevant than they really are in reality.

Eventually it will be the same story as with everything that is new. I mean you had conservatives and even non-conservatives who never thought that women should drive, but now they are letting their daughters, wife, sisters, cousins etc. drive and even paying for their driving license and encouraging them.

وَكَذَٰلِكَ جَعَلْنَاكُمْ أُمَّةً وَسَطًا لِّتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ وَيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ عَلَيْكُمْ شَهِيدًا

Surat Al-Baqarah 2:143

Moderation is the center point between two extremes. Every one of our virtues sits at the moderate center of two vices that stray from it. Our goal should be to find that center and always return back to it when we move away from it.

Well... only time will tell. and let's hope you are right.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Saudi girls....meh. idk what they are trying to show when there is nothing to be looked at.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Saudi girls....meh. idk what they are trying to show when there is nothing to be looked at.

Obviously you have no clue about Saudi Arabian girls. Probably never seen one in your life given your comment.

Saudi Arabian girls (Arab girls in general) are some of the best looking girls and most sought after girls in Muslim and non-Muslim circles (just a few google searches needed for that or visits on Twitter or Instagram). Hardly news. And who are you in comparison (lol)? Are you not the same user who claims Arab ancestry? Talk about inferiority complexes. Arabs are much better looking and more diverse than Afghans. No contest.

Well... only time will tell. and let's hope you are right.

Insha'Allah.

 

[H. Dawary]

Can we stop looking at Saudi as the beacon of Islam. Islam didn't just come to them, its for the whole of humanity, if they don't want to follow it then good riddance, we must do our best to follow it.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Obviously you have no clue about Saudi Arabian girls. Probably never seen one in your life given your comment.

Saudi Arabian girls (Arab girls in general) are some of the best looking girls and most sought after girls in Muslim and non-Muslim circles (just a few google searches needed for that or visits on Twitter or Instagram). Hardly news. And who are you in comparison (lol)? Are you not the same user who claims Arab ancestry? Talk about inferiority complexes. Arabs are much better looking and more diverse than Afghans. No contest.

Woah....hahahahahha
Oh man, I want what your smoking.
Iraqi, centuries ago, while we were discussing our heritage. So I dont know what that has to do with Saudi girls, considering iraq is different then Saudi Arabia.

Inferiority complex? Hahaha, no but that whole rant shows that you do.

 

[dalvash]

Oh man, I want what your smoking.

Only if it's hashish.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Woah....hahahahahha
Oh man, I want what your smoking.

Says the guy who wrote that inferiority ridden comment about universally good-looking people. Arabian beauty has been immortalized in poems, movies and saying since ages ago as have the well-known features of Arab women (big beautiful eyes, beautiful noses and features, great bodies etc. Few nations in the world come close to the natural beauty of Arab women. Of course each to his own, some prefer Chinese women, others South Asian and others again prefer Eskimos or Nigerians.

 

[Mandalorian_CA]

I went to college with a half Saudi/half white girl. She didn't do hijab but was very religious. Her white mother converted to Islam. Every Arab guy was after her lol but she always said no to them. She didn't date at all. She was gorgeous, tall and had great features.

Hybrid stuff is always good. Wish I had a choice to marry one or marry a white women but unfortunately i got desert eagle placed on my head by my parents to marry Pakistani girl lol

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Can we stop looking at Saudi as the beacon of Islam. Islam didn't just come to them, its for the whole of humanity, if they don't want to follow it then good riddance, we must do our best to follow it.

KSA is the cradle of Islam historically and physically (Makkah and Madinah) and the same Arabs spread Islam to 90% + of all Muslims today but in what fantasy world is KSA leaving Islam when KSA and Saudi Arabians are objectively speaking much more Islamic than the vast majority of Muslim nations and peoples?

KSA has some unmixed concerts that I am not a big fan of but you have state-institutionalized pedophilia in Afghanistan (bacha bazi), honor killings, acrid attacks and some of the highest percentage of drug addicts (heroin addicts) in the world. Hardly Islamic, lol. So please don't compare.