Fearing Taliban, Pak Hindus take Thar Express to India

[Captain03]

Fearing Taliban, Pak Hindus take Thar Express to India​

JAISALMER: In the past four years, some 5,000 Hindus may have crossed over from Pakistan, never to return. It has not been easy abandoning their
homes, sometimes even their families, but they say they had no choice: they had to flee the Taliban.

It started as a trickle in 2006, the year the Thar Express was flagged off. The weekly train starts from Karachi, enters India at Munabao, a border town in Barmer, and runs up to Jodhpur. In the first year, 392 Hindus crossed over.

This grew to 880 in 2007. The next year, the number was 1,240, and this year, till August, over 1,000 have crossed over. They just keep extending their visas and hope to become Indian citizens.

Incidentally, these are official figures. Sources say there are many more who cross over and melt in the local milieu. And officials have a soft corner for these people, most of whom have harrowing stories to tell.

Ranaram, who used to live in the Rahimyar district of Pakistan’s Punjab, says he fell prey to the Taliban. His wife was kidnapped, raped and forcibly converted to Islam. His two daughters were also forcibly converted. Ranaram, too, had to accept Islam for fear of his life. He thought it best to flee with his two daughters; his wife was untraceable.

Dungaram, another migrant, says atrocities against Hindus in Pakistan have increased in the past two years after the ouster of Musharraf. "We won't get permanent jobs unless we convert to Islam."

Hindu Singh Sodha, president of Seemant Lok Sangathan, a group working for the refugees in Barmer and Jaisalmer, says there's unfortunately no proper refugee policy in India even though people from Pakistan reach here in large numbers.

He said in 2004-05, over 135 families were given Indian citizenship but the rest are still living illegally in the country and are often tortured by police because they don't have proper citizenship certificates. "In December 2008, over 200 Hindus were converted to Islam in Mirpur Khas town of Pakistan. But there are several others who want to stick to their religion but there’s no safety for them in Pakistan."
Immigration officer at Munabao railway station, Hetudan Charan, says the arrival of Hindu migrants had suddenly increased as over 15 to 16 families were reaching India every week. “None of them admit they are to settle here but seeing their baggage, we easily understand,’’ he said.

Ravi Kumar, who was Barmer collector till his transfer two days back, said the government in 2007 had given permanent citizenship to a few Pakistani immigrants.

this is real bullsh!t
there is NO and i mean NO taliban presence or control in punjab
i just came from pakistan [punjab mostly] and have not met a single person who supported or liked the taliban
everyone looks at them as traitors to the nation

 

[Gabbar]

this is real bullsh!t
there is NO and i mean NO taliban presence or control in punjab
i just came from pakistan [punjab mostly] and have not met a single person who supported or liked the taliban
everyone looks at them as traitors to the nation

Please refer to Elmo's post!!!

 

[SalmanNadeem]

What's the big news? Pakistan is an Islamic state. Even ordinary muslims can't get basic services and you expect non-muslims to get jobs? Laughable.

 

[amunhotep]

Let us just hope that those innocent guys find permanent asylum or refuge somewhere

 

[Comet]

If Mush says something does that mean we are going to implement it?

 

[EjazR]

Hi, I posted this elsewhere and posting it here as well.

Firstly, it's not the Taliban but the evalengical units of Tableeghi Jamaat and the Jamaat-e-Islami who have been involved in converting people in Thar. Talk to Hindus there and they say that everything was fine till the roads to Mithi (completed somehwere in the 1980s) and Tharparkar (completed a year or two back) were constructed and outsiders with radical ideologies trickled in. A major setback of "development". Let’s not forget that for centuries the Hindus and Muslims have been living in the area in harmony. So anyone who converts them doesn’t automatically become a Taliban.

Secondly, there is so much poverty in Tharparkar -- which along with Umerkot district has the highest percentage of Hindus living in the country and also where they are in a majority -- that people really are not into discrimination there. Go there and see for yourself. Hindus will talk about celebrating Eid and Muslims will talk about celebrating Holi and Diwali… they are so lost in making ends meet with their agro-pastoral life, they don’t even know what blasphemy laws are. Unfortunately, the real discrimination lies in the urban rather than rural centres.

Forcible conversions is a sad reality especially when it comes to non-Muslim women and there is absolutely no denying that. These women cannot opt for legal recourse and often accept the fact that they have been “converted” and married off. To many, it is also the only way out of their abject poverty.

Elmo, you are mistaken/uninformed there, TJ is an a-politcal organisation that definitely works only among muslims. This is a stated goal and they always strictly follow that. It does not do conversions. JI is a political party and I doubt it would aim for conversions either.

I'm not denying that there might be some fored conversions happening, but scapegoating groups (even though I may not agree with them) is not correct espicially if you ews articles themselves don't mention that.

The news article (all other sources) and the Hindus themselves are saying its the Taliban, and these people who have been living in Pakistan would definitely know the difference between Taliban and other groups. Liek it or not there is Taliban sympathisers in Punjab as well, mostly affliated to the JeM and LeT groups. Bhawalpur is their main recruiting ground and most likely its recruits in their groups that are involved in this.

Jaish-e-Muhammad builds huge base in Bahawalpur

 

[Omar1984]

Elmo, you are mistaken/uninformed there, TJ is an a-politcal organisation that definitely works only among muslims. This is a stated goal and they always strictly follow that. It does not do conversions. JI is a political party and I doubt it would aim for conversions either.

I'm not denying that there might be some fored conversions happening, but scapegoating groups (even though I may not agree with them) is not correct espicially if you ews articles themselves don't mention that.

The news article (all other sources) and the Hindus themselves are saying its the Taliban, and these people who have been living in Pakistan would definitely know the difference between Taliban and other groups. Liek it or not there is Taliban sympathisers in Punjab as well, mostly affliated to the JeM and LeT groups. Bhawalpur is their main recruiting ground and most likely its recruits in their groups that are involved in this.

Jaish-e-Muhammad builds huge base in Bahawalpur

Anyone whose been to Pakistan's Punjab province will tell you theres no Taliban problem in Punjab. Go to Punjab province of Pakistan and see for yourself. I bet Punjab province of Pakistan is much more westernized than some places in India.

 

[MilesTogo]

I just posted that same link thinking that other members have missed an important article.

Elmo, you are mistaken/uninformed there, TJ is an a-politcal organisation that definitely works only among muslims. This is a stated goal and they always strictly follow that. It does not do conversions. JI is a political party and I doubt it would aim for conversions either.

I'm not denying that there might be some fored conversions happening, but scapegoating groups (even though I may not agree with them) is not correct espicially if you ews articles themselves don't mention that.

The news article (all other sources) and the Hindus themselves are saying its the Taliban, and these people who have been living in Pakistan would definitely know the difference between Taliban and other groups. Liek it or not there is Taliban sympathisers in Punjab as well, mostly affliated to the JeM and LeT groups. Bhawalpur is their main recruiting ground and most likely its recruits in their groups that are involved in this.

Jaish-e-Muhammad builds huge base in Bahawalpur

 

[dvk1982]

In Pakistan there are no riots against Hindus like the riots the world saw in Gujrat, India against Muslims in 2002 I can assure you that.

Either the author of this article is lying or some Hindus feel because Pakistan is 96% Muslim and India is 80% Hindu, they'll be happier in India. Some are more comfortable with others who share the same beliefs, culture, lifestyle, etc as they do.

even looking at ur %s of muslims and hindus.... 2 people on average can never stand against 96 people to be called as riots... on the other hand.. riots start or spread from muslims/hindus dominant regions to other regions... In India u find many pockets of muslims dominant regions to let you know and not just hindus dominant everywhere....

 

[EjazR]

Anyone whose been to Pakistan's Punjab province will tell you theres no Taliban problem in Punjab. Go to Punjab province of Pakistan and see for yourself. I bet Punjab province of Pakistan is much more westernized than some places in India.

This is more to do with the seraiki dominated regions of Pakistani Punjab in the south and southwest including the Bhawalpur regions. The norther Punjab regions are well developed ofcourse.

LeT, JeM e.t.c. are the groups that are Taliban sympathisers, the dress up the same way and follow the same patterns of terrorists activities wether it be Kashmir or Swat.

 

[Omar1984]

This is more to do with the seraiki dominated regions of Pakistani Punjab in the south and southwest including the Bhawalpur regions. The norther Punjab regions are well developed ofcourse.

LeT, JeM e.t.c. are the groups that are Taliban sympathisers, the dress up the same way and follow the same patterns of terrorists activities wether it be Kashmir or Swat.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Taliban Threatens Anti-India Groups

PESHAWAR — Local Taliban militants have issued stern threats to groups battling Indian forces in disputed Kashmir to either ally with them in fighting against Islamabad, leave their areas or face retaliation.

"We have been asked to vacate Swat and Dir just because we are not ready to fight our own people," a spokesman for Hizbul Mujahiddin, a group based in Pakistan and Pakistan-ruled Kashmir and active in India-controlled Kashmir, told IslamOnline.net.

Tehrik-e-Taliban Swat (TTS) of Maulana Fazlullah, commonly known as Maulana Radio because of its FM radio station, has asked anti-India groups to either join hands in fighting the Pakistani army or leave the area.

A similar warning has been issued to members of the outlawed Lashkar-e-Tayyeba (LT) based in Darra Adamkhel, some 60 kilometers north of Peshawar, the capital of the North Western Frontier Province (NWFP), by local Taliban commander Omar Khalid.

Khalid came into limelight in 2007 when he seized a local mosque and named it Red Mosque after a military operation against Islamabad's Red Mosque in July 2007 killed hundreds of students, including women and children.

Sources within the Harkatul Mujahiddin, another group that is based in Pakistan but operates primarily in Kashmir, also confirmed the Taliban threats.

"They think that our fighters are not interested in fighting against the Pakistani security forces and that, to them, means we don’t want an Islamic government in Pakistan," one of the group's leaders told IOL.

The TTS accuses the three groups of standing with the Pakistan army, according to intelligence officials.

"The TTS thinks that these militants are preventing local youths from joining the anti-army activities," a senior intelligence official told IOL, requesting anonymity.

"That’s why they have issued them evacuation orders."

TTS spokesman Haji Muslim Khan could not be reached to comment despite repeated efforts.

Quit Islamabad

Several scholars based in Islamabad have also received messages from the TTS to either support its agenda or leave the capital.

"If you cannot support our struggle, then leave Islamabad as soon as possible otherwise you will be considered American-collaborators," reads a message received by the head of a madrasah located in the heart of the capital.

Islamabad administration rushed last week to remove slogans from walls in different areas of the capital against several scholars describing them as US agents and threatening them of dire consequences.

Security and political analysts are not surprised by the Taliban’s move.

"The Taliban’s threat to militants belonging to other organizations is kind of a sectarian issue," says Salim Safi, an expert of Afghan affairs.

"Taliban belongs to the Dubendi school of thought, whereas LT represents the Ahl-e-Hadit school of thought. Both have no link at all."

He argues that Harkatul Mujahiddin leans towards the Jammat-e-Islami, is only operative in Kashmir and has nothing to do with Afghanistan.

The group's fighters were ousted by the Taliban regime in 1997 from Sarobi, a former stronghold of former premier Gulbadin Hikmatyar.

"Taliban has never been close to these organizations and does not consider them friends," says Safi.

"Secondly, these organizations have no interests in Afghanistan, that's why the Taliban’s move is neither a new phenomenon nor surprising."

Taliban Threatens Anti-India Groups - IslamOnline.net - News

The only place where Taliban has a major prescence is in areas bordering Afghanistan. Punjab is no where near Afghanistan. Punjab is near Kashmir and Northern India.

 

[EjazR]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Taliban Threatens Anti-India Groups

PESHAWAR — Local Taliban militants have issued stern threats to groups battling Indian forces in disputed Kashmir to either ally with them in fighting against Islamabad, leave their areas or face retaliation.

"We have been asked to vacate Swat and Dir just because we are not ready to fight our own people," a spokesman for Hizbul Mujahiddin, a group based in Pakistan and Pakistan-ruled Kashmir and active in India-controlled Kashmir, told IslamOnline.net.

Tehrik-e-Taliban Swat (TTS) of Maulana Fazlullah, commonly known as Maulana Radio because of its FM radio station, has asked anti-India groups to either join hands in fighting the Pakistani army or leave the area.

A similar warning has been issued to members of the outlawed Lashkar-e-Tayyeba (LT) based in Darra Adamkhel, some 60 kilometers north of Peshawar, the capital of the North Western Frontier Province (NWFP), by local Taliban commander Omar Khalid.

Khalid came into limelight in 2007 when he seized a local mosque and named it Red Mosque after a military operation against Islamabad's Red Mosque in July 2007 killed hundreds of students, including women and children.

Sources within the Harkatul Mujahiddin, another group that is based in Pakistan but operates primarily in Kashmir, also confirmed the Taliban threats.

"They think that our fighters are not interested in fighting against the Pakistani security forces and that, to them, means we don’t want an Islamic government in Pakistan," one of the group's leaders told IOL.

The TTS accuses the three groups of standing with the Pakistan army, according to intelligence officials.

"The TTS thinks that these militants are preventing local youths from joining the anti-army activities," a senior intelligence official told IOL, requesting anonymity.

"That’s why they have issued them evacuation orders."

TTS spokesman Haji Muslim Khan could not be reached to comment despite repeated efforts.

Quit Islamabad

Several scholars based in Islamabad have also received messages from the TTS to either support its agenda or leave the capital.

"If you cannot support our struggle, then leave Islamabad as soon as possible otherwise you will be considered American-collaborators," reads a message received by the head of a madrasah located in the heart of the capital.

Islamabad administration rushed last week to remove slogans from walls in different areas of the capital against several scholars describing them as US agents and threatening them of dire consequences.

Security and political analysts are not surprised by the Taliban’s move.

"The Taliban’s threat to militants belonging to other organizations is kind of a sectarian issue," says Salim Safi, an expert of Afghan affairs.

"Taliban belongs to the Dubendi school of thought, whereas LT represents the Ahl-e-Hadit school of thought. Both have no link at all."

He argues that Harkatul Mujahiddin leans towards the Jammat-e-Islami, is only operative in Kashmir and has nothing to do with Afghanistan.

The group's fighters were ousted by the Taliban regime in 1997 from Sarobi, a former stronghold of former premier Gulbadin Hikmatyar.

"Taliban has never been close to these organizations and does not consider them friends," says Safi.

"Secondly, these organizations have no interests in Afghanistan, that's why the Taliban’s move is neither a new phenomenon nor surprising."

Taliban Threatens Anti-India Groups - IslamOnline.net - News

The only place where Taliban has a major prescence is in areas bordering Afghanistan. Punjab is no where near Afghanistan. Punjab is near Kashmir and Northern India.

The highlighted parts show that the author is certainly not aware of what he writing about. He doesn't even know that Lal masjid has been always called Lal masjid.

Fact of the matter is all these groups have one thing in common, violently taking control of the govt. to spread their brand of Islam. Wether it be LeT or Taliban they are the same. They have helped each other for decades. This is just an attempt to make the case for "good taliban" vs "bad taliban". Just because terrorists groups kill people in Kashmir doesn't make them "good"

 

[Omar1984]

The highlighted parts show that the author is certainly not aware of what he writing about. He doesn't even know that Lal masjid has been always called Lal masjid.

Fact of the matter is all these groups have one thing in common, violently taking control of the govt. to spread their brand of Islam. Wether it be LeT or Taliban they are the same. They have helped each other for decades. This is just an attempt to make the case for "good taliban" vs "bad taliban". Just because terrorists groups kill people in Kashmir doesn't make them "good"

Its you who dont know what your talking about.

The only reason LeT exists is because of India's occupation of Kashmir, Taliban just have wet dreams of taking over Pakistan.

Here's another article for you:

Pakistani Hindus rally to support Islamic Charity
December 17, 2008

Hundreds of members of Pakistan’s Hindu community have turned out to protest on behalf of a Muslim charity accused by India over the deadly Mumbai attacks.

Muslim Pakistan has a Hindu minority, many of whom are impoverished agricultural workers, but the women in the southern city of Hyderabad rejected what they called pressure by mostly Hindu India to ban the Jamaat-ud-Dawa charity.

“How can an organisation be terrorist if it’s been providing food and water to us despite knowing that we’re not Muslims?” said Biga Ram, a 40-year protester.

“They’re friends of humanity. We condemn the ban. It’s unjust,” she said.

Some of the banners read: “Do not ban our saviour!”

Bhai Chand, a Hindu community leader, told Associated Press the charity had set up water wells in the desert.

The protesters gathered outside the Hyderabad press club chanting slogans in support of the charity and holding banners with messages such as: “Jamaat-ud-Dawa is not terrorist” and “We condemn the banning of Jamaat-ud-Dawa under Indian pressure”.

Pakistan has not yet formally banned the charity but has rounded up dozens of its activists, detained some of its leaders, shut its offices and frozen its bank accounts as part of a crackdown on suspected Islamists since the Mumbai attacks.

India says the charity is a front for the banned Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) militant group, which it says was set up by Pakistan to fight Indian rule in the disputed Kashmir region.

 

[Elmo]

this is real bullsh!t
there is NO and i mean NO taliban presence or control in punjab
i just came from pakistan [punjab mostly] and have not met a single person who supported or liked the taliban
everyone looks at them as traitors to the nation

Please refer to Elmo's post!!!

@ EjazR: Elmo, you are mistaken/uninformed there, TJ is an a-politcal organisation that definitely works only among muslims. This is a stated goal and they always strictly follow that. It does not do conversions. JI is a political party and I doubt it would aim for conversions either.

Well Ejaz one recently travelled to Thar after the rains and spoke to the Hindus living there. It's them who say that the TJ and JI have made in-roads and you can see their banners scattered around here and there. To quote directly, "Ever since the road to Tharparkar has been laid, outsiders have started to come in. We never had Hindu-Muslim communal tensions but now these people from religio-political parties come and ask us to convert."

As for news articles not mentioning it, just want to let you know that newsmen rarely travel in those parts and the minorities also refrain from commenting on such touchy issues publicly.

If you have been to Thar and have had a different experience, please share.


As for TJ working for the Muslims only... how often have you interacted with the Tableeghi Jamaat? Here's a small example: Every Ramzaan, they come to your door, whether you are living in the city or rural areas, wherever they have a presence, and ask all the male members to join them in prayers. They do so repeatedly till you comply. They keep a track of who misses even a single prayer. Another example of it being evangelical is cricketer Mohammad Yousuf's case --- formerly Yousuf Youhana, he converted to Islam after attending the TJ's sessions and being influenced. It is preaching.


The news article (all other sources) and the Hindus themselves are saying its the Taliban, and these people who have been living in Pakistan would definitely know the difference between Taliban and other groups. Liek it or not there is Taliban sympathisers in Punjab as well, mostly affliated to the JeM and LeT groups. Bhawalpur is their main recruiting ground and most likely its recruits in their groups that are involved in this.

How is Bahawalpur connected to Thar. And also, the "sympathisers" you talk about... it is more of a symbiotic relationship between the Talibans in FATA and the Sunni militant organisations in the Punjab. And them being the Taliban... that's extremely subjective. Anyone can pretend to be the Taliban... but most village elders say that it is the JI and TJ, and not the Taliban. Besides, the Taliban are not into evangelism at the moment, they are waging an insurgency against the state. It would make more sense for them to convert the Sikhs in Orakzai Agency rather than jumping half way across and converting Hindus in Thar. And from what we have seen, they like jizya way more!!!

 

[Sandeep]

In India.. we don't convert muslims into hindus. We respect each other religeon ..exceptions are here I agree. But Not sure about Pakistan.. Where reports are like either they will be killed or to be converted to Muslim. As far as riots are concern.. we have our press and independent media they publish all this some time more then actual the problem is. In pakistan situation is diffrent ..there is no place of riots there in Pakistan because terrorism is itself more then of Riots. Every now and then your own people killing you.Sir.. You country is equal to our one State.You have 96% muslims we have 20% that to growing and this 20% is bigger then your whole of Pakistan. If in India they get respect ,they become PM,President or army cheif or get equal respect then only they are here correct. Your Pakistan only belongs to Muslims. But our India belongs to every citizen irrespective to their religion.