Fareed Zakaria: Let’s be honest, Islam has a problem right now

[The SC]

can you suggest a tranlated copy of koran where all these wonderful things you say about it are mentioned?



come on you are not only victims but you are the ones who gave birth to them raised them gave funding to them radicalised them and now when they have turned on you

you are playing the victim card

No translation can transmute the real meaning of the words in Arabic, The language is extremely rich , with meanings changing with accents and context. It is mostly the individual effort backed by a good education that can help to understand it in other languages. Even the Arabs had specialized scholars for interpreting the different meanings, but for individuals to understand all these meanings, it is called "Ijtihad", that one can translate as " individual and also group effort ".
I believe there are some very good translations, but the effort to understand is paramount.
Try to find one with explanations on the side.

yeah before that there was neither logic nor evidence of scientific work in human history . Plus its only muslims who beat drums of Muslim scientists . Scientists are Scientists , religion has jackshyt to do with science . How many times do we hear Christian Scientists or Buddhists scientist or anybody .

That answers your inquiry.!

 

[Pride]

People? NO Indians are trying their hard to defend a douche like Farid zikria because it gives some solace to Hard line Indian Hindus.

It is not about Pakistan or India so don't bring it. It is about a famous journalist raised real concern while he is Muslim himself (May be not as per your standards).

Just like Indians are taught these days by saffronis that Porus defeated Alexander

We don't have history book like yours so we know Porus lost to Alexander.

 

[asquare]

Why don't Muslims hit back against the West where it would hurt the most? The West has used a false pretence of morality to interfere in the affairs of the Muslim world. If muslims unite and spend time, effort and money in debunking this propaganda they would get a lot further than the quasi-military response that is attempted from time to time, often in the form of terrorism. More news networks, social media efforts, lobby groups, documentaries, books etc documenting the events in the world from a moderate perspective will help change how ordinary people in the West think, which will change the incentives western governments face. Unfortunately, muslims have not been able to use these tools well enough.

The typical argument against this is that the west has monopolised the space for rational debate and doesn't allow the other side of the argument to be heard. You have to MAKE them hear you- not in their interest, but in your own.

 

[Cherokee]

That answers your inquiry.!

It doesn't .

 

[Dubious]

How many times do we hear Christian Scientists or Buddhists scientist or anybody .

Simple answer, church was actively hanging and burning scientist at stake and declaring them with the coined word freely used in todays world with Islam ...yes the word is BLASPHEMY and yes people were prosecuted by the church for that....and not to forget the great witch hunts

As for Buddhist ...they do claim...alot on herbal medicines....

why shouldn't one blame the ' grand designer ' who takes credit for everything but not the failure emanating from his creations ...

Because HE already warned under what circumstances you will fail its like all the leaks to the exam paper are out but he obnoxious still wanna show off they are better and fail

Or like a surgeon having all the funds in the world to purchase all the greatest technology yet sticks to using unsterilized needle and scissors for operating and still claiming that he doesnt know how the patient got some form of infection

The driver must blame the car and the inventor if driver was in seat for namesake and everything is controlled ' remotely ' by inventor ...even if the driver has sense of ' autonomy ' of purported ' free will ' which is also if we accept Omniscience and omnipotence of great designer ....his creation !

Why should the driver blame the inventor when inventor said 2 + 2 = 4 but the stupid driver keeps trying to get a 3 out of it

There are laws which are for everything even in nature....Like naturally gravity acts downwards you dont throw and apple in the air and expect it to keep flying and going through the clouds...it is bound to come down back to earth....Likewise there are laws for everything why not men? Now if they dont follow that laws ....and fall back on the earth then why blame the inventor who already addressed these laws?

Err ...the great one who is above our thinking ..who made car and drivers ..and not to forget " free will " that decides our will ..
so we drive car made by him with drivers that is us made by him ..with ' free will ' created by him ...
did he or did he not create " Free will " ?

If he did create " free will " we are tied to it ..then it's not ' free ' after all

how is that all comes from him ..and yet he takes no ' blame ' or ' credit ' to what is basically his own ...

Like everything on the planet with its never ending laws....laws of physics, laws of genetics, laws of Chemical bonding....there are laws for free will....

and how does his ' good -self ' allows bad to occur out of his design by his won designed ' free will "
May be the basic premise that there is creator is wrong to begin with ..

Or maybe coz we are by nature rebellious...and god already stated IF HE WISHED HE would have made everyone abiding him but thats what angels are for.....We were meant to be rebellious but that is also why HE is MOST MERCIFUL and MOST GRACIOUS....

There are lessons one can learn in life...it is the fool who refuses to pick them up!

 

[Pak_Track]

It's all politics, It's not Islam's fault.

The only reasons Muslims look more like terrorists right now is not because there is any problem with Islam, it's because Muslims don't have Cruise Missiles, Aircraft Carriers and Drones to help them achieve their political goals. When that research counts the amount of "terrorists", I'm sure it doesn't include the likes of America or the CIA or any of the private military contractors that do as much 'terrorism' as anyone else.

It's more political than it is Islam. I'm sure if Islam hadn't existed, the terrorists would have used some other ideology to brainwash people and use them for their political goals. Islam is just the trend for now, before it was Communism, now its Islam's turn to be used and abused and twisted around for politics and money.

Anyway, this Bill Maher BS is getting a lot more publicity than it should be getting.

Then, about the whole stupid argument people have been repeating over and over and over again - that Muslims don't protest enough against ISIS, so they secretly support it or something.
PROTEST IS NOT EVEN REQUIRED!! Why do we protest? To show our state and our leaders that we disagree with something or that we would like some action to be taken. The whole world is already united against ISIS and multiple Muslim nations have already started bombing them and fighting them, along with western nations. There is no need to convince any leaders or any governments to take action - they already are.
PEOPLE DO NOT FEEL THE NEED TO PROTEST.
With Israel, an example everyone keeps bringing up, people need to protest because it is a nation that claims to be civilized and modern. Israel is also backed by the leaders of many nations and is supported by the whole West. ISIS makes no such claims, neither is it supported by any country (not directly atleast). The whole world is already against ISIS. There is no need to protest. Sure, we need to show ISIS we Muslims disagree with them, but I'm sure they'll understand that when they get their arses blown apart by Muslim pilots fighting for Muslim countries.

The final point this article made is great,


However, I disagree with one really small thing - Islam doesn't need reform. MUSLIMS need reform. We Muslims need to start following Islam properly, especially all its principles that condemn the killing of innocents and preach peace. And we need to stop using Islam as a political tool and use it as a uniting ideology instead. Islam is a very powerful force that can unite half the world under one banner - only if we get our shit together and start using our own brains instead of blindly following whatever some misinformed Mullah tells us.

There is no word in this post, I disagree with.

 

[Dubious]

Errr
oh so now he is not just designer of cars , drivers and free will but also a non paid amateur ' trainer '

He already said ponder on the signs around you...Like I said before it is the fool who refuses to learn...While the wise man says Once bitten twice shy!

and he has all the time to teach his kids---sometimes at cost of life of his child
what kind of trainer - father he is ?

Pry be more clear what you are talking about here as I understand not

must be pretty strict as well as gruesome father to subject his imbecile child through life wrecking teaching !!!
He sounds more like a masochist ...

Maybe learning from experience is better than the numerous warnings he gives which heed to no ear!

 

[The SC]

oh teri

algebra and algorithms

shit who invented them

you are serious in this muslim scientists business ....

There is a whole thread on the subject, you can go there for your inquiries.

 

[Dubious]

Something is wrong with a car when it - stutters, misfires, emits smoke ,does not start, heats up , gives poor mileage to name a few. This is not rocket science - every user knows / realises this when it happens.

The thing is it is not the car that is doing any of this: tutters, misfires, emits smoke ,does not start, heats up , gives poor mileage

Like I have quoted, debated and mentioned on numerous threads that Islam doesnt teach any of that crap people are doing under its name.....so its not the car that is doing anything to make one ram up a lamppost!

If a man is in a car that is ' above his thinking - he is in the wrong car or is a misfit for that car ! Wrong fuel does not make a car ram into a lamp post - the car wont start in the 1st place- wrong driver . A driver cannot blame anyone for putting Diesel into a Petrol engine car !! Its his bloody fault.

Yes it is his bloody fault...that is all I was saying...thank you!

Yes, if those holding the steering wheel are goofing it up and taking the passengers the wrong way - they need to be changed & the passengers too have an equal responsibility to just not be ' passengers" and be led like sheep. They too must take control of their own lives ( & desitny).

Yes but if the passengers are blindly following then it is also the fault of the passengers

 

[Zabaniyah]

It's a well-written article. Though, Muslims won't support the view that the religion of Islam need to "reform".

Mr. Zakaria need to more sensitive on how he chooses to express his views. Otherwise, he won't get any support from Muslims. If no support, then what's the point of using your talent for a cause? See how a simple wording can take a downward trend?

It's possible that a poor man have better manners, and more respect for humanity than a rich man.

A relatively high-context culture would take at least three generations to change. And here, we are talking about religion. That, in a relatively primitive, and high-context cultures where religion takes a central role in the lives of millions.

If anyone assumes that an article would help change that, then they really need to understand the ground reality there. It really isn't so simple.

As for Mr. Maher and Mr. Harris, it is understandable that the American public would generally feel spooked by ISIS. All those tax payer dollars and the men and women in uniform for what? Yeah, those evil and cunning Muslims.....

I understand Mr. Zakaria's frustration, but there really was no need to react to Mr. Maher. He, and his kind are simply unable to comprehend the ground reality. There's a lot more in ISIS than on the surface.

 

[zip]

There must be something good in Islam as majority followers are loving it ..but there are 80% of others in this world ..It also matters what do they feel about muslims especially when there are many things happening all over the world because of extremists ..Every action will have its reaction ..
We can understand mentality of people when Islam was established ..There was blood bath war then ..It is digestible since its long ago and civilization is not fully evolved ..but then with the help of sword it spread all around defeating kingdoms ..There is intolerance in religion itself ..Time will give seperate place for seperate ideologies ..For us 1000 years is like eternity but its not considerable amount for nature ..Several religions were born out of human civilisation and perished many of them are yet to born ..but all of them are here to serve human civilization not to enslave it..

 

[TankMan]

Syria, Iran, KSA, Egypt, Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, : Have plenty of cruise missiles, drones, Albiet no aircraft carriers.... As far as military contractors,
how many muslim countries back asymmetric warfare through proxies like Hamas, Hezbollah, FSA, ISIS, PLO, PFLP, in context of conflict, how are they any different from military contractors? maybe more ruthless and more effective....




My query is why are mulsims letting these terror organisation use thier organisation... like why was jamait-
ulema-e-islam used as recruitment grounds for taliban and no muslim in the region cried foul? If muslims are failing left and right to protect the sanctity of thier religion, why blame the rest of the world?





No protest is not required, actions are... When bamiyaan budhha's were being blown up and the muslim world stood mute polishing their brand new jets, Sensible people like you came out denouncing the horror, but the leaders that represent you should have cut of their aid to Taliban at that instance...Just like in a positive move muslim nations send flotilla's to palestine, why didn't they send the same to those affected by ISIS, Taliban, etc...




So applying the same logic, have people stopped protesting againt Israel?


Oh OK... Yeah you are right, Fareed Zakaria, doesn't represent Muslim Community... He has never claimed so


Offense language against Ostriches wont be tolerated.....

Syria, Iran, KSA, Egypt, Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, : Have plenty of cruise missiles, drones, Albiet no aircraft carriers.... As far as military contractors,
how many muslim countries back asymmetric warfare through proxies like Hamas, Hezbollah, FSA, ISIS, PLO, PFLP, in context of conflict, how are they any different from military contractors? maybe more ruthless and more effective....

Syria, Iran, KSA, Egypt, Turkey, Indonesia and Malaysia combined have not invaded as many nations as the US has in the past few years. They have plenty of weapons but how much do they use them? I never heard of Malaysia or Indonesia or Turkey or KSA carpet bombing some country thousands of miles away from it - It's always the "extra civilized, modern" countries that do that.
Muslim countries do back proxies - they have interests too. Why, is it only non-Muslims that can have geopolitical interests? I never doubted that Muslim countries do selectively condemn and support militants based on their interests, it's just that Muslims aren't the only ones doing it. The whole world does it and does it a lot, only difference is they cover their tracks better.
And no, poorly trained and poorly armed militant proxies are not "more ruthless and more effective" than Military contractors. The militants just get more media coverage.

My query is why are mulsims letting these terror organisation use thier organisation... like why was jamait-
ulema-e-islam used as recruitment grounds for taliban and no muslim in the region cried foul? If muslims are failing left and right to protect the sanctity of thier religion, why blame the rest of the world?

That's a good question, one that I ask too.
It's not Muslims who let these terror organizations do anything - Its corrupt as$holes who just happen to be Muslims.
Normal Muslims are unfortunately too uneducated and confused to take any proper action. And all these recruitment operations you talk about are usually pretty damn clandestine and the fear factor is there. Such things usually happen in areas that are dominated by extremists.
It's so mixed up, so many factors, so many hurdles, It's not as easy as just standing up and saying you don't want terrorism. Everyone will agree with you on that. To really make a difference, one has to be in a certain position - now what I'm posting here is just the general idea, I can't claim to know what the real politics and clandestine system is that allows these terrorists to spread. I know for sure that it needs to stop, and that the problem is not Islam.
Someone who is in a higher position than us laymen could probably explain why and how terrorists manage to do what they want without facing consequences.
I hold Muslims responsible, including myself, but what exactly can we do?

why blame the rest of the world?

I wrote multiple paragraphs blaming Muslims,in this post and in the one you quoted - I don't blame the rest of the world, so if you want to ask this question, ask someone who actually does blame the rest of the world.

No protest is not required, actions are... When bamiyaan budhha's were being blown up and the muslim world stood mute polishing their brand new jets, Sensible people like you came out denouncing the horror, but the leaders that represent you should have cut of their aid to Taliban at that instance...Just like in a positive move muslim nations send flotilla's to palestine, why didn't they send the same to those affected by ISIS, Taliban, etc...

Yes, actions are required - actions like bombing ISIS and aiding the locals, all are being taken. Incase you haven't been following the news, even IRAN is fighting ISIS.
INSIGHT-Iran's elite Guards fighting in Iraq to push back Islamic State| Reuters

As for the Bamiyan Buddhas

According to UNESCO Director-General Koïchiro Matsuura, a meeting of ambassadors from the 54 member states of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference(OIC) was conducted. All OIC states – including Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, three countries that officially recognised the Taliban government – joined the protest to spare the monuments

Pakistan joined world leaders Saturday in asking Afghanistan's Taleban militia to stop destroying ancient statues considered among the world's most priceless treasures.

Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf sent Moinuddin Haider to Kabul to try to prevent the destruction, by arguing that it was un-Islamic and unprecedented

Buddhas of Bamiyan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
CNN.com - World appeals to Taleban to stop destroying statues - March 3, 2001

why didn't they send the same to those affected by ISIS, Taliban, etc

DUDE! They sent very , very much aid to those affected by the Taliban and ISIS. Incase you didn't notice, Pakistan alone has launched multiple military operations and aid campaigns to help the people affected by the Taliban. Not to mention Afghanistan was invaded by 50 countries, including many Muslim ones, to rid it of the Taliban. Seriously man, all we have done for the past decade and a half is fight terrorists and now you're accusing us of not fighting enough terrorists.

So applying the same logic, have people stopped protesting againt Israel?

Has Israel stopped using UN resolutions as toilet paper? Has Israel agreed to the perfectly reasonable demands of the Palestinians? Has Israel given the Palestinians their rights back? Has the US stopped pumping billions into Israel? The answer to my questions and your question is "NO". So, my logic is still correct.

 

[third eye]

The thing is it is not the car that is doing any of this: tutters, misfires, emits smoke ,does not start, heats up , gives poor mileage

It is, due tp poor maintenance by the owners of the car.

Yes but if the passengers are blindly following then it is also the fault of the passengers

This is just the point the rest of the world is wondering - why , Oh why are the ' passengers ' allowing the ' drivers' to take them up the garden path ! Don't they see the harm thats come to them ?

 

[TankMan]

This is just the point the rest of the world is wondering - why , Oh why are the ' passengers ' allowing the ' drivers' to take them up the garden path ! Don't they see the harm thats come to them ?

When we rebel, the rest of the world opposes us for opposing democracy. When we don't, the rest of the world opposes us for supporting terrorists. Muslims just can't win.

 

[Dubious]

It is, due tp poor maintenance by the owners of the car.

Car is far advanced to need maintenance but owners to adapt to it or atleast understand it before going around and ramming it...

This is just the point the rest of the world is wondering - why , Oh why are the ' passengers ' allowing the ' drivers' to take them up the garden path ! Don't they see the harm thats come to them ?

Because the passengers have no idea what the car is capable of...they just believe what people tell them....they refuse to explore it and study it from the experts but out of experience (of ramming into lampposts and other humans) they are finding it is good to kill people too....and the world ends up seeing the accidents ONLY