Fareed Zakaria: Let’s be honest, Islam has a problem right now

[jaunty]

We all should have faith in that change is the only constant.

Not questioning that, I am only skeptical about the nature of the change.

 

[VCheng]

Not questioning that, I am only skeptical about the nature of the change.

Take a good look at the state of Islam today and know that it can only get better from here, so any changes are bound to be in the positive direction.

 

[MarkovChain]

Muslim scientist were the ones who have introduced logic and evidence as a basis of any worthy scientific work, based on the Koran's asking anyone to come up with any evidence to challenge it. So this is inherent in a religion some people are full-heartedly attached to, since it is based on scientific and logical endeavor.

Islamic scientists did an awesome job from the period of Mohammed till about 1200 AD after which things ended up becoming more radical. The contribution to science from a lot of Islamic countries has been (arguably) negligible since.

There is no doubt denying the Koran, like any other religious text, is a wonderful work. The problem comes when people try to interpret it according to their own ways - and you could see how that has ended up making societies take several steps backward in the modern age.

 

[Pride]

dare to call spade a spade....

10 terrorists seized Mumbai, 12 terrorists blew twin tower, 7 terrorists created havoc in London..

A civilized world can't fight the terrorist...

We have to give up PritviRaj Syndrom (being civilized to cruel animals) , we need to think like Churchil, Golda Mier, Shivajee.. Then only terrorism can be tamed...

And who said terrorism in not in India? what Indian Muslim are doing in Iraq? Have they gone there to learn peace? And don't give bullshit that only 10 , 12 or 100 have gone there, These 100 terrorists are creating a launching-pad for Jihad in India...

Its time to tame this Islamization of Mulsims else first they will eliminate Hindus, Then they will butcher Shia and Ahmedi, Then they will torture women (no education, Wear Burkha, no driving etc), Then they will put bann on movie, song, entertainmaint...

Only entertainment remain will be "Public prosecution in Talkatora Stadium"

I am not sure why are you being so aggressive on my post. We are talking 2 different perspective. What you are talking about is finishing terrorists, yes lets do it and I totally agree but what I am saying is that rather than others do it, let Islamic world should come condemn and fight being united as they do it when it happens between Islam vs Non-Islam. We need to find long term cure and it should come from Muslims else it will be a kind of war which is going on for past 1300-1400 years.

 

[k7x]

Islamic scientists did an awesome job from the period of Mohammed till about 1200 AD after which things ended up becoming more radical. The contribution to science from a lot of Islamic countries has been (arguably) negligible since.

There is no doubt denying the Koran, like any other religious text, is a wonderful work. The problem comes when people try to interpret it according to their own ways - and you could see how that has ended up making societies take several steps backward in the modern age.

Ever heard of Nalanda university?

Buddhist and Hindus were well advance in terms of , math, science, astronomy...including logic and algebra..

Research the word vimanasastra...

It needs open heart and unbiased mind to understand true history

 

[MarkovChain]

Ever heard of Nalanda university?

Buddhist and Hindus were well advance in terms of , math, science, astronomy...including logic and algebra..

Research the word vimanasastra...

It needs open heart and unbiased mind to understand true history

My post was not meant to be a comparison of scientific achievements. I was merely pointing out the fact that science and logic in Islamic societies are valued less now than they were a 1000 years back.

 

[WishLivePak]

You even read that article? This is really a marvelous piece of writing.

Majority Pakistanis:

Author has Indian links? It's bashing time.

 

[Pride]

I have said exactly this thing before on PDF. Just as Christianity evolved, so will Islam.

I already discussed with the people. There is no chance of evolution unless you will reject some of the ideologies. Christians left some Ideologies, Hindus left ill practices but Islam is not moving, It is stuck at 700-800 claiming everything is perfect.

 

[VCheng]

I already discussed with the people. There is no chance of evolution unless you will reject some of the ideologies. Christians left some Ideologies, Hindus left ill practices but Islam is not moving, It is stuck at 700-800 claiming everything is perfect.

There is no problem with the ideology that needs abandoning. All that is needed is some evolution and refinement which will come with education.

 

[DesiGuy]

Fareed zakaria is kafir so he doesn't know sh$t.

 

[The SC]

Islamic scientists did an awesome job from the period of Mohammed till about 1200 AD after which things ended up becoming more radical. The contribution to science from a lot of Islamic countries has been (arguably) negligible since.

There is no doubt denying the Koran, like any other religious text, is a wonderful work. The problem comes when people try to interpret it according to their own ways - and you could see how that has ended up making societies take several steps backward in the modern age.

Actually you are right but the period of Muslim enlightenment went till the18th century. (you figure of 1200 is not wrong but is misplaced, actually it went from 6th century to the 18 th century making it 1200 years in total)
I pointed out what distinguishes The Koran from other religions, and that is its emphasis on the inquiry in all sciences, while at the same time giving clear and enlightened rules for individual and social well being.
Again, I do agree with you when some people high-jack a religion for other purposes than what it was intended for. and this is a double edged phenomena, since those people can be from inside the religion in question or outsiders! And that is where the question mark should be put. Since Islam in particular was attacked almost everytime entirely from the exterior, and sometimes from the exterior but helped from the interior (agents placed by the same exterior forces or rogue elements trying to use the exterior forces to fulfill their own agenda, be it political or ideological).
Do not forget that the Muslim world's governments are as disparate as the number of governance types you'll find on this planet, it goes from socialism to capitalism passing by anything in between, so in reality, Islam as such has nothing to do with what is going on in the Muslim world today, it is mostly this differences in ideologies that are taking precedence on Islam itself inside the Muslim world, hence the internal fights and conflicts we are witnessing now a day.
So again, this has nothing to do with Islam, this is the legacy of colonialism and the cold war eras.

 

[JonAsad]

Did fareed zakaria mentioned Indian muslims as the tolerant ones?-
with all the history of communal violence in india that made Hindus look very intolerant- -

 

[livingdead]

Sad but true.
When I posted it on some other thread that Islam was wrongly misinterpreted and taught, then it was objected upon.There're some muslim countries which do support radicals.I'm not naming any one but then many of us do know that it is true.

But hey....what about the atrocities done by USA/Britain in Vietnam,Aghanistan and Iraq?? so should we also say that Bush's/Tony Blair's Christianity also has a PROBLEM right now??

I think there are two related topics that need to be separated.
First islam. Like all religions, its an idea.. a belief system. Even if all muslims in the world were perfectly peaceful and model citizens of their countries, it will not make 'islam' peaceful (or violent). What will make it violent is the content/message/idea. Discussing theology is bannable offense especially if it is critical of islam, so I will stop here.

second bit is politics related to muslim countries/society. Here islam takes unnecessary abuse because of general state of society (which could be related to economic state of society).
@TankMan is right in the sense that because muslims are not powerful enough, they use terror tactics in many places. Then there is state sponsoring terrorism(and muslim countries are not the only one doing it), and if majority of the state happen to be muslim, islam is blamed. Its not islam's fault that a group of muslims live in a volatile zone.

 

[MarkovChain]

Actually you are right but the period of Muslim enlightenment went till the18th century. (you figure of 1200 is not wrong but is misplaced, actually it went from 6th century to the 18 th century making it 1200 years in total)

The Islamic Golden age is widely expected to have lasted till about 1258 AD
Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While external factors such as crusades, mongols etc triggered the fall, the rapid radicalization on the empires themselves sealed it.

This is a really good example :-
Istanbul observatory of Taqi ad-Din - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The observatory did not survive to advance the development of astronomy in the Muslim world. Within months of the observatory's completion, a comet with an enormous tail appeared in the sky and Sultan Murad III demanded a prognostication about it from his astronomer. "Working day and night without food and rest" Taqi ad-Din studied the comet and came up with the prediction that it was "an indication of well-being and splendor," and would mean a "conquest of Persia". Unfortunately, instead of well-being a devastating plague followed in some parts of the empire, and several important persons died.[2] Taqi ad-Din was able to carry on his observations for a few more years but eventually opponents of the observatory and prognostication from the heavens prevailed and the observatory was destroyed in 1580.[1] Other sources give the "rise of a clerical faction," which opposed or at least was indifferent to science,[3] and specifically to "the recommendation of the Chief Mufti" of the Ottomans, as the explanation for the destruction of the observatory.[4]

 

[The SC]

Question then is why you are sitting in sick and decadent western land of north america?The land of easy money,easy sex and easy drugs is no place for you.
On topic,whatever the solution to me it has to come from within ..like muslims fix their own issue,can't be done from outside.For that to me you need 1)education 2)stop living in denial or conspiracy theories3)stable political systems in muslim countries.Education alone is not answer as we see educated kids radicalized quickly and joining isis in scores worldwide.
Its going to take time.Hopefully this can be achieved with minimal violence but hoping for that in the quagmire called the middle east is a pipe dream really.

Your post smells ignorance, so , I should ignore it.
I live in the West and have high ethical values, never went for easy money, drugs or sex, those are illnesses of a society, one can avoid on his own, but can do nothing about it as an individual.
You should look at what is happening in your own society. I know that a lot of people are not happy with it.
For the rest read post # 41.