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FAQs on India's Massive 34% Hike in Military Spending

india may spend whatever it likes on it defence provided it doesnt starve its citizen during the process.


exactly ..its our wish and we have to live with it..its none of anyothers concerns..if we dont like the policy of our government then we always have a choice to boot them out

How much exactly would india require to beef up its defences if it religiously conducts a reality check as regards to its enemies?.

Well our defence expendiure are open and you can look in to it..last time we trusted our neighbours one humiliating defeat and stabbing from the back was the results.so dont like to take chances
We care a damn if india spends everything that it has on defence, but what concerns the region in particular and the world in general is the unnecessary expenditure on defence which could have not been a requirement had india resorted to a sane foreign policy.
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is that mean our concern is not valid.one charitable organisation of your country is saying that they will take the part of our country by force..if a charitable organisation has this attitude then can we trust its government ?? our sane policy is work with every other country other than two neighbours.ofcource when dealing with the neighbours we cant act like they wish..we have to take care of our interests too.every coutry is having some issue with its neighbours..its not in the case of India alone..

Why would india create enemies all around? india has issues with Pakistan, alright (though even these can be resolved if india really has a will to do so) but then what's the obsession with China? What's the inferiority complex when india talks about becoming an asian super power?

What obssession are you talking about??some media say something is not what Indian government stand is..India government always down played those incidents..yes we dont trust chinese ..past actions of our neighbours tought us some valuble lessons..And about Pakistan its not about one countrys will..when ever we showed intention to solve the issues the end result will be many innocents civilians killed by the people send by your so called charitable institutions..

Why wouldnt india solve long standing issues like Kashmir, Siachen, Sir Creek etc so that we all can live in harmony? ?

Why cant your country also show some positive steps..just look at your foriegn ministers bragging when India shows its intention about talking ..is it the right step from your side towards peace process??is it how you want to solve the issues ..by showing your dick was bigger??


Why would india undertake adventures like it did in '71?


Remember Kargil??dont tell me its hindu -yahoodi propoganda ..you should also remember the mood before that..can we ever get back that trust on your country??

What's the need to harbour terrorists like the LTTE (though gone for guud now)??



There are some past mistakes done by our government and we paid for it by the lives of our leaders..LTTE is one of them..but we are the same one helps SriLanka to get rid of them too..

Why would india play a dirty game in Afg??
Devaloping other countrys infrastructure is not a dirty game last time i checked..Yes India's influvence is Afgan is increasing .stop whining about it..and start showing some proofs other wise its your governments credibility that is going for a toss..

Why would india keep pushing Nepal against the wall?

no body is pushing no body to the wall..We share a warm relationship..But if you ask me Nepal is playing a wonderful game of India card against China and CHina card against India
Why wouldnt india just feed it citizens?

I thought u didnt care :)
 
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The problem remains that a large number of poor indians are hunger, under clothed and under fed. You probably are having some difficulty in understanding one basic fact and that is, military expenditire being non-profit can be curtailed and put in use for productive projects (such as feeding the poor poor indians).

Your brains have been finding it really difficult to understand that comparisons are drawn in terms of Guns versus Bread, not Cows versus Bread!

The day this simple phenomenon get past your thick skull, that day you would start feeling the plight of those poor poor indians who go to bed empty stomach! Until then you would continue to commit crime against them as you continue to mal-feed them and let them starve and ultimately die!

Second most important issue that your brain is incapable of understanding is the fact that it is india which is among the top rankers of military spenders just because your military and govt have successfully brainwashed you people into a false sense of superiority that you are here to dictate (remember Jungle raj?). They have been teaching you since your childhood about Akhund Bharat and and that Pakistan is just a small piece that fell off the india body and now have to reunite, whatsoever. Now it is this false supremacy that dont let you people think clearly and in turn you unnecessarily spend gigantic amount on your defence to which actually there is no requirement as if ONLY india can understand and concentrate solely on itself without getting obsessed with the outer world. There are people on this forum who have been talking of india becoming a 'global super power'..:lol: Now you tell me, is it necessary to feed the starving humans or day dreaming superpower?

Common sense would suggest the former but a lamer sense would argue over the latter as we have been seeing since the start of this thread!!

So go on and shyt in your pants, some more :rolleyes:

xeric is it necessary for you to attack him personally and ranting about Akand Bharat and all that stuff..no body care about Akand Bharat here..so give it a rest :disagree:
 
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india may spend whatever it likes on it defence provided it doesnt starve its citizen during the process.

How much exactly would india require to beef up its defences if it religiously conducts a reality check as regards to its enemies?

GoI has designed an environment for people to come out of poverty with steps such as rural employment schemes. India has also attracted investment in infrastructure related to irrigation. Indian farmers require support and the govt. is doing all it can to improve the plight of the small farmer. India is a country that is vast and geographically diverse. The challenge the GoI has is unmatched.

India also is investing in UID project that will reduce corruption and middlemen and increase the efficiency of the delivery system. A lot of efforts are in progress and the results in the next decade will make all of us aware of what a country like India can achieve.

India has two hostile neighbours and it should take measures to address any eventuality. It is not possible for India at the current juncture to maintain a one is to one parity with its neighbour but has to skilfully allocate funds to ensure deterrence.

We care a damn if india spends everything that it has on defence, but what concerns the region in particular and the world in general is the unnecessary expenditure on defence which could have not been a requirement had india resorted to a sane foreign policy.

Really ? Have you forgotten Kargil ? 1962 ? Can India ignore the constant rant on Arunachal from China ? Possibility of Brahmaputra river diversion ?

Why would india create enemies all around? india has issues with Pakistan, alright (though even these can be resolved if india really has a will to do so) but then what's the obsession with China? What's the inferiority complex when india talks about becoming an asian super power? Why wouldnt india solve long standing issues like Kashmir, Siachen, Sir Creek etc so that we all can live in harmony? Why would india undertake adventures like it did in '71? What's the need to harbour terrorists like the LTTE (though gone for guud now)? Why would india play a dirty game in Afg? Why would india keep pushing Nepal against the wall?

Why wouldnt india just feed it citizens?

We have a few obsessions and one of them is the Chinese. We admire them for what they have achieved economically. We are trying to set ourselves on a growth path that ensures double digit inclusive growth for a few decades. At the same time we want to learn note to go through growth with soaring inflation. We have learnt how not to do it from China. India is no where near China in economic might and wee stand grounded to reality but wee dream to make it big and I think you should not have a problem with that ??

A few questions for you.

Why does Pakistan use terror as a state policy?
Why can't Pakistan solve the Balochistan for its own good?
Why can't Pakistan not be democratic and let an elected Govt. run the show?
Why can't Pakistan get to terms with the fact that India is a regional power?
Why can't Pakistan stop its soil from being used for terror?
Why can't Pakistan get serious about its own development (not just in Punjab and Sind)?
Why can't Pakistan be its own master and not let its foreign policy be influenced by US or China ?

I have a few more questions for you but remember to set your house right before you comment on the state of your neighbour.
 
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xeric is it necessary for you to attack him personally and ranting about Akand Bharat and all that stuff..no body care about Akand Bharat here..so give it a rest :disagree:

Hey dude.. dont worry about it.. I dont care about Mr Xeric's violent behaviour on the forum. Am a firm believer in Hari Saldon's quote on violence and incompetence..Folks interested in Science Fiction from Issac Asimov (specifically the foundation series) will know what I am talking about...
 
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exactly ..its our wish and we have to live with it..its none of anyothers concerns..if we dont like the policy of our government then we always have a choice to boot them out
We did see that happening since the past 6 decades.

Instead we have seen hike in military expenditures, more emotions and and more aggression.

Well our defence expendiure are open and you can look in to it..last time we trusted our neighbours one humiliating defeat and stabbing from the back was the results.so dont like to take chances



is that mean our concern is not valid.one charitable organisation of your country is saying that they will take the part of our country by force..if a charitable organisation has this attitude then can we trust its government ?? our sane policy is work with every other country other than two neighbours.ofcource when dealing with the neighbours we cant act like they wish..we have to take care of our interests too.every coutry is having some issue with its neighbours..its not in the case of India alone..



What obssession are you talking about??some media say something is not what Indian government stand is..India government always down played those incidents..yes we dont trust chinese ..past actions of our neighbours tought us some valuble lessons..And about Pakistan its not about one countrys will..when ever we showed intention to solve the issues the end result will be many innocents civilians killed by the people send by your so called charitable institutions..
Now that's funny.

a country that talked of getting its lost piece back by cutting it into two halves now worries over its existence.

Is that a defeat or something else?

The might india that found a way into the top ten military spender's list is still worried over its defence. Fear mongering perhaps, right?


Why cant your country also show some positive steps..just look at your foriegn ministers bragging when India shows its intention about talking ..is it the right step from your side towards peace process??is it how you want to solve the issues ..by showing your dick was bigger??
:lol: :lol:

You offered a 'hand' for the first time and now we see you bragging over it?

Sorry dude, if you think that's some kinda nicy nicy gesture from mother india then you are gravely mistaken. It is nothing else a move to preempt the US withdrawal from Afg as you know Pakistan would be gaining an upper hand in Afg soon. Also as Advani puts it; "the latest U-turn on dialogue is the upshot of a powerful nudge from Washington"

So dont be fooled. You just came running to us as a compulsion.

On one side you screw around with the waters and then you ask us to talk with you, what happened when we have been asking you to talk?

Quit the 'bagal mai chori, moo mai ram ram' tactics!

Remember Kargil??dont tell me its hindu -yahoodi propoganda ..you should also remember the mood before that..can we ever get back that trust on your country??
One nudge and all came tumbling down, right? That's what the indian military is guud at?


There are some past mistakes done by our government and we paid for it by the lives of our leaders..LTTE is one of them..but we are the same one helps SriLanka to get rid of them too..
They say; dont play with fire, dont they?

Well someone had to pay for the 'services', unfortunately your PM did.


Devaloping other countrys infrastructure is not a dirty game last time i checked..Yes India's influvence is Afgan is increasing .stop whining about it..and start showing some proofs other wise its your governments credibility that is going for a toss..
:lol:

Tell this to the US and to the remainder of the world, seriously no one is buying it any more. You would soon be exposed and that's why the U-turn by the mighty india (who 'steadfastly refused to resume talks with Pakistan until Islamabad brings those behind the Mumbai attacks to justice').

We all know that your honeymoon with Karzai is nearing its end and the guud thing is that you have already started working on it. Guud ofr you.
 
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xeric is it necessary for you to attack him personally and ranting about Akand Bharat and all that stuff..no body care about Akand Bharat here..so give it a rest :disagree:

And that's the best that you could come up with to add to this sacred thread?
 
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I am still waiting ... Why don't you answer a few of my questions instead of writing one liners ?

Again a one liner(ok right, two liner, no may be more); The thread is about india and india alone, you probably have not gone through the thread or you must have seen the deleted posts that attempted to derail the thread, and you have done exactly the same. Please open up a new thread so that i can satisfy you there properly.
 
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A number of chauvinistic responses by Indian commentators here are a clear indication of how ignorant they are about their own nation of India where:

1. The government has been consistently spending more as a percent of GDP than Pakistan and covering it up through excluding major expenses on pensions, nuclear arsenal, Kashmir occupation costs, etc etc.

Again, you spew numbers selectively and fail to answer any of the questions I ask, in popular parlance your rant is often referred to as "like a broken record"....

Pakistan figures are as pathetic when it comes to achievement.(I say pathetic, unlike you, for me,the numbers don't suggest grandiose achievement in poverty, literacy, etc)
Lets look at their defense expenditure:

2004 3.90 %
2005 4.90 %
2006 3.90 %
2007 3.20 %
2008 3.20 %
source: CIA world fact book.

also, in case of Pakistan budget, like India there is no mention of pension, nuclear tech etc.

What makes things worse for Pakistan, unlike India it receives loads of aid both military and for growth related areas, food, economy etc.

There has also been accusations of aid being diverted for military.

lets take a detailed look:

As a result of a 1954 mutual defense assistance agreement, the United States provided nearly $2.5 billion in economic aid and nearly $700 million in military aid to Pakistan between 1954 and 1964.

$26 million in military assistance from 1965-1971

$2.9 million in military assistance from 1972-1979.

from around $60 million in economic and development assistance in 1979 to more than $600 million per year in the mid-1980s. In total, the United States provided more than $5 billion in aid—$3.1 billion in economic assistance and $2.19 billion in military assistance—from 1980 until 1990.

During the Pessler period, the U.S. provided less than $500 million—$429 million in economic assistance and $5.2 million in military assistance.

The George W. Bush administration’s expansive assistance to Pakistan in the wake of September 11 has been severely skewed toward military assistance. Of the over $11 billion dollars given to Pakistan since FY2002, 72 percent—or $8.1 billion—has been given in security-related aid. This includes Coalition Support Funds (or CSF, funds to reimburse Pakistan for its counterterrorism activities), Foreign Military Financing, and other military assistance. Meanwhile, only 23 percent—or $3.1 billion—has been given as economic-related aid.

This imbalanced assistance has neither increased Pakistani nor American security. Moreover, a lack of oversight measures for CSF funds have allowed the Pakistani military to continue its history of underinvestment in counterinsurgency training and capabilities for the regular army and the paramilitary Frontier Corps, in favor of maintaining its traditional focus against its perceived regional rival India.
Reassessing Foreign Assistance to Pakistan
for more details:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL31362.pdf

Inspite of all this Pakistan's military expenditure has been super high. Also, given the amount if economic aid, its progress both in economic terms and poverty, literacy rates are not impressive by any means.

Dr Ahmad Faruqui writes

"
Since independence, Pakistan has received more than $30 billion in aid
just from the Bank and the US and billions more from other sources.
Despite this “embarrassment of riches”, it has failed to become an Asian
tiger. This is evidenced by the continuing presence of five structural
problems in the economy. First, as the economy grows, imports grow
faster than exports, leading to rising deficits on the current account.
Second, consumer goods rather than capital goods dominate the growth
of imports, reflecting a bias towards consumer spending and fuelling
inflation. Third, domestic investment rates remain low, thus requiring
continuing infusions of foreign aid to bridge the non-vanishing “financing
gap”. Fourth, as growth occurs, the government begins to rack up rising
budget deficits to placate special interest groups, most notably the
military. And, finally, despite all of Shaukat Aziz’s rhetoric about
transparency, Pakistan remains a highly corrupt country according to
Transparency International.
As the parliament debates the budget, it should ask the government how
it will use the new foreign aid to address these endemic problems.
Otherwise, the new money will become a band aid to cloak the ills of
military rule. General Musharraf’s regime should not be allowed to leave a
painful inheritance for future generations of Pakistanis, by saddling them
with billions in debt servicing costs."

Dr Ahmad Faruqui is director of research at the American Institute of
International Studies and can be reached at Faruqui@pacbell.net
http://www.nyu.edu/fas/institute/dri/Easterly/File/Daily Times - Site Edition.pdf

Unlike India, Pakistan could not maintain democracy, has not improved its economy and continues to spend heavily on military.

As I mentioned before, numbers can be used manipulatively for spewing opinions, you have to look at the larger goal,while in India's case it does show India to be struggling by no means you can take away its accomplishments.

Is India getting poorer?
No, not all. India has made steady progress against poverty. A look at the 25-year period between 1981 and 2005 shows that India has moved from having 60 percent of its people living on less than $ 1.25 a day to 42 percent. The number of people living below a dollar a day (2005 prices) has also come down from 42 percent to 24 percent over the same period. Both measures show that India has maintained even progress against poverty since the 1980s, with the poverty rate declining at a little under one percentage point per year.

he government recognizes that its main development challenge rests on reducing inequalities and making sure that all its people, living in all its regions, are able to share the fruits of that growth equally. The Eleventh Plan seeks to address this issue of inclusive growth frontally.



However, this is not to say that India’s phenomenal growth has not helped lift people out of poverty. In order to improve the lives of a greater number of its poor, India will also have to reduce those basic inequalities – lack of access to education, healthcare and opportunities - that prevent poor people from participating in the growth process.

refer post 109 for the complete FAQ from world bank

lastly,

I also forgot to mention the equipment it gets through soft loans viz a viz China.

Some numbers may look better for Pakistan but it will only take a India hater to quote them multiple times to make oneself feel happy. Is that a great achievement??

While India looks to the future with great enthusiasm and zest for a better life and a better country can the same be said wrt Pakistan for all the troubles it is facing?

Its a long way ahead for both countries and comparing poverty rates of two countries that are no way a benchmark for either to follow or by saying my slum is better than your slum only depicts a inherit hate even with the educated ..and may give you short term happiness that may last say 5 minutes
 
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Here are some more recent comparative indicators in South Asia:

Poverty:

Population living under $1.25 a day - India: 41.6% Pakistan: 22.6% Source: UNDP

Underweight Children Under Five (in percent) Pakistan 38% India 46% Source: UNICEF

Life expectancy at birth (years), 2007 India: 63.4 Pakistan: 66.2 Source: HDR2009

Cherry picking again Sir??

Some more numbers from the HDR2009 only

Human Development Index score India 0.612, Pak 0.572

Adult Litracy India 66%, Pak 54%

Per Capita PPP India $2,753, Pak $2,496

Poverty Index (lower is better) India 28%, Pak 33.40%

Female Adult Literacy India 54%, Pak 39%

Public expend on Health (% GDP) India 3.4%, Pak 1.3%

Infant Mortality (High wealth Q) India 3.4% Pak 6%
 
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Again, you spew numbers selectively and fail to answer any of the questions I ask, in popular parlance your rant is often referred to as "like a broken record"....

......

What makes things worse for Pakistan, unlike India it receives loads of aid both military and for growth related areas, food, economy etc.

There has also been accusations of aid being diverted for military.

lets take a detailed look:

As a result of a 1954 mutual defense assistance agreement, the United States provided nearly $2.5 billion in economic aid and nearly $700 million in military aid to Pakistan between 1954 and 1964.

$26 million in military assistance from 1965-1971

$2.9 million in military assistance from 1972-1979.

from around $60 million in economic and development assistance in 1979 to more than $600 million per year in the mid-1980s. In total, the United States provided more than $5 billion in aid—$3.1 billion in economic assistance and $2.19 billion in military assistance—from 1980 until 1990.

During the Pessler period, the U.S. provided less than $500 million—$429 million in economic assistance and $5.2 million in military assistance.

The George W. Bush administration’s expansive assistance to Pakistan in the wake of September 11 has been severely skewed toward military assistance. Of the over $11 billion dollars given to Pakistan since FY2002, 72 percent—or $8.1 billion—has been given in security-related aid. This includes Coalition Support Funds (or CSF, funds to reimburse Pakistan for its counterterrorism activities), Foreign Military Financing, and other military assistance. Meanwhile, only 23 percent—or $3.1 billion—has been given as economic-related aid.

This imbalanced assistance has neither increased Pakistani nor American security. Moreover, a lack of oversight measures for CSF funds have allowed the Pakistani military to continue its history of underinvestment in counterinsurgency training and capabilities for the regular army and the paramilitary Frontier Corps, in favor of maintaining its traditional focus against its perceived regional rival India.
Reassessing Foreign Assistance to Pakistan
for more details:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL31362.pdf

Inspite of all this Pakistan's military expenditure has been super high. Also, given the amount if economic aid, its progress both in economic terms and poverty, literacy rates are not impressive by any means.

Dr Ahmad Faruqui writes

"
Since independence, Pakistan has received more than $30 billion in aid
just from the Bank and the US and billions more from other sources.
Despite this “embarrassment of riches”, it has failed to become an Asian
tiger. This is evidenced by the continuing presence of five structural
problems in the economy. First, as the economy grows, imports grow
faster than exports, leading to rising deficits on the current account.
Second, consumer goods rather than capital goods dominate the growth
of imports, reflecting a bias towards consumer spending and fuelling
inflation. Third, domestic investment rates remain low, thus requiring
continuing infusions of foreign aid to bridge the non-vanishing “financing
gap”. Fourth, as growth occurs, the government begins to rack up rising
budget deficits to placate special interest groups, most notably the
military. And, finally, despite all of Shaukat Aziz’s rhetoric about
transparency, Pakistan remains a highly corrupt country according to
Transparency International.
As the parliament debates the budget, it should ask the government how
it will use the new foreign aid to address these endemic problems.
Otherwise, the new money will become a band aid to cloak the ills of
military rule. General Musharraf’s regime should not be allowed to leave a
painful inheritance for future generations of Pakistanis, by saddling them
with billions in debt servicing costs."

Dr Ahmad Faruqui is director of research at the American Institute of
International Studies and can be reached at Faruqui@pacbell.net
http://www.nyu.edu/fas/institute/dri/Easterly/File/Daily%20Times - Site Edition.pdf

Unlike India, Pakistan could not maintain democracy, has not improved its economy and continues to spend heavily on military.

As I mentioned before, numbers can be used manipulatively for spewing opinions, you have to look at the larger goal,while in India's case it does show India to be struggling by no means you can take away its accomplishments.

Is India getting poorer?
No, not all. India has made steady progress against poverty. A look at the 25-year period between 1981 and 2005 shows that India has moved from having 60 percent of its people living on less than $ 1.25 a day to 42 percent. The number of people living below a dollar a day (2005 prices) has also come down from 42 percent to 24 percent over the same period. Both measures show that India has maintained even progress against poverty since the 1980s, with the poverty rate declining at a little under one percentage point per year.

he government recognizes that its main development challenge rests on reducing inequalities and making sure that all its people, living in all its regions, are able to share the fruits of that growth equally. The Eleventh Plan seeks to address this issue of inclusive growth frontally.



However, this is not to say that India’s phenomenal growth has not helped lift people out of poverty. In order to improve the lives of a greater number of its poor, India will also have to reduce those basic inequalities – lack of access to education, healthcare and opportunities - that prevent poor people from participating in the growth process.

refer post 109 for the complete FAQ from world bank

lastly,

I also forgot to mention the equipment it gets through soft loans viz a viz China.

Some numbers may look better for Pakistan but it will only take a India hater to quote them multiple times to make oneself feel happy. Is that a great achievement??

While India looks to the future with great enthusiasm and zest for a better life and a better country can the same be said wrt Pakistan for all the troubles it is facing?

Its a long way ahead for both countries and comparing poverty rates of two countries that are no way a benchmark for either to follow or by saying my slum is better than your slum only depicts a inherit hate even with the educated ..and may give you short term happiness that may last say 5 minutes

Again, you repeat falsehood, using the crutch of selective reports.

Pakistan has never spent more than $5 billion on defense, and its current GDP is about $175 billion (nominal not PPP). And India is spending over $30 billion and increasing it by double digits each year.

India's budget deficit of 11% of GDP is a matter of record. It's forcing India to borrow over $100 billion.

In spite of all of the recent news about aid to Pakistan dominating the media, the fact remains that resurgent India has received more foreign aid than any other developing nation since the end of World War II--estimated at almost $100 billion since the beginning of its First Five-Year Plan in 1951. And it continues to receive more foreign aid in spite of impressive economic growth for almost a decade. At the recent G20 meeting, India has asked the World Bank to raise the amount of money India can borrow from the bank for its infrastructure projects, according to Times of India. At present, India can borrow up to $15.5 billion as per the SBL (single borrower limit) fixed by the Bank.

Britain will spend over $1.5 billion during the next three years in aid to Shining India, a nuclear-armed power that sent a spacecraft to the moon recently, to lift "hundreds of millions of people" out of poverty, the British secretary of state for international development said last November, according to the Guardian newspaper.

Douglas Alexander, the first cabinet minister to visit India's poorest state Bihar, said that despite "real strides in economic growth" there were still 828 million people living on less than $2 a day in India.

UK's Department of International Development says if the UN's millennium development goals - alleviating extreme poverty, reducing child mortality rates and fighting epidemics such as Aids - are left unmet in India, they will not be met worldwide. Some 43% of children go hungry and a woman dies in childbirth every five minutes.

British Minister Alexander contrasted the rapid growth in China with India's economic success - highlighting government figures that showed the number of poor people had dropped in the one-party communist state by 70% since 1990 but had risen in the world's biggest democracy by 5%.

The World Bank said recently it will lend India $14 billion by 2012 to help the country overhaul its creaking infrastructure and increase living standards in its poor states, according to Financial Express.

Haq's Musings: Foreign Aid Continues to Pour in Resurgent India
 
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Again, you spew numbers selectively and fail to answer any of the questions I ask, in popular parlance your rant is often referred to as "like a broken record"....

Pakistan figures are as pathetic when it comes to achievement.(I say pathetic, unlike you, for me,the numbers don't suggest grandiose achievement in poverty, literacy, etc)
Lets look at their defense expenditure:

2004 3.90 %
2005 4.90 %
2006 3.90 %
2007 3.20 %
2008 3.20 %
source: CIA world fact book.

also, in case of Pakistan budget, like India there is no mention of pension, nuclear tech etc.

What makes things worse for Pakistan, unlike India it receives loads of aid both military and for growth related areas, food, economy etc.

There has also been accusations of aid being diverted for military.

lets take a detailed look:

As a result of a 1954 mutual defense assistance agreement, the United States provided nearly $2.5 billion in economic aid and nearly $700 million in military aid to Pakistan between 1954 and 1964.

$26 million in military assistance from 1965-1971

$2.9 million in military assistance from 1972-1979.

from around $60 million in economic and development assistance in 1979 to more than $600 million per year in the mid-1980s. In total, the United States provided more than $5 billion in aid—$3.1 billion in economic assistance and $2.19 billion in military assistance—from 1980 until 1990.

During the Pessler period, the U.S. provided less than $500 million—$429 million in economic assistance and $5.2 million in military assistance.

The George W. Bush administration’s expansive assistance to Pakistan in the wake of September 11 has been severely skewed toward military assistance. Of the over $11 billion dollars given to Pakistan since FY2002, 72 percent—or $8.1 billion—has been given in security-related aid. This includes Coalition Support Funds (or CSF, funds to reimburse Pakistan for its counterterrorism activities), Foreign Military Financing, and other military assistance. Meanwhile, only 23 percent—or $3.1 billion—has been given as economic-related aid.

This imbalanced assistance has neither increased Pakistani nor American security. Moreover, a lack of oversight measures for CSF funds have allowed the Pakistani military to continue its history of underinvestment in counterinsurgency training and capabilities for the regular army and the paramilitary Frontier Corps, in favor of maintaining its traditional focus against its perceived regional rival India.
Reassessing Foreign Assistance to Pakistan
for more details:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL31362.pdf

Inspite of all this Pakistan's military expenditure has been super high. Also, given the amount if economic aid, its progress both in economic terms and poverty, literacy rates are not impressive by any means.

Dr Ahmad Faruqui writes

"
Since independence, Pakistan has received more than $30 billion in aid
just from the Bank and the US and billions more from other sources.
Despite this “embarrassment of riches”, it has failed to become an Asian
tiger. This is evidenced by the continuing presence of five structural
problems in the economy. First, as the economy grows, imports grow
faster than exports, leading to rising deficits on the current account.
Second, consumer goods rather than capital goods dominate the growth
of imports, reflecting a bias towards consumer spending and fuelling
inflation. Third, domestic investment rates remain low, thus requiring
continuing infusions of foreign aid to bridge the non-vanishing “financing
gap”. Fourth, as growth occurs, the government begins to rack up rising
budget deficits to placate special interest groups, most notably the
military. And, finally, despite all of Shaukat Aziz’s rhetoric about
transparency, Pakistan remains a highly corrupt country according to
Transparency International.
As the parliament debates the budget, it should ask the government how
it will use the new foreign aid to address these endemic problems.
Otherwise, the new money will become a band aid to cloak the ills of
military rule. General Musharraf’s regime should not be allowed to leave a
painful inheritance for future generations of Pakistanis, by saddling them
with billions in debt servicing costs."

Dr Ahmad Faruqui is director of research at the American Institute of
International Studies and can be reached at Faruqui@pacbell.net
http://www.nyu.edu/fas/institute/dri/Easterly/File/Daily Times - Site Edition.pdf

Unlike India, Pakistan could not maintain democracy, has not improved its economy and continues to spend heavily on military.

As I mentioned before, numbers can be used manipulatively for spewing opinions, you have to look at the larger goal,while in India's case it does show India to be struggling by no means you can take away its accomplishments.

Is India getting poorer?
No, not all. India has made steady progress against poverty. A look at the 25-year period between 1981 and 2005 shows that India has moved from having 60 percent of its people living on less than $ 1.25 a day to 42 percent. The number of people living below a dollar a day (2005 prices) has also come down from 42 percent to 24 percent over the same period. Both measures show that India has maintained even progress against poverty since the 1980s, with the poverty rate declining at a little under one percentage point per year.

he government recognizes that its main development challenge rests on reducing inequalities and making sure that all its people, living in all its regions, are able to share the fruits of that growth equally. The Eleventh Plan seeks to address this issue of inclusive growth frontally.



However, this is not to say that India’s phenomenal growth has not helped lift people out of poverty. In order to improve the lives of a greater number of its poor, India will also have to reduce those basic inequalities – lack of access to education, healthcare and opportunities - that prevent poor people from participating in the growth process.

refer post 109 for the complete FAQ from world bank

lastly,

I also forgot to mention the equipment it gets through soft loans viz a viz China.

Some numbers may look better for Pakistan but it will only take a India hater to quote them multiple times to make oneself feel happy. Is that a great achievement??

While India looks to the future with great enthusiasm and zest for a better life and a better country can the same be said wrt Pakistan for all the troubles it is facing?

Its a long way ahead for both countries and comparing poverty rates of two countries that are no way a benchmark for either to follow or by saying my slum is better than your slum only depicts a inherit hate even with the educated ..and may give you short term happiness that may last say 5 minutes

A. Faruqui's distortions and allegations of Musharraf and Aziz are highly politically motivated.

Is Shaukat Aziz to Blame?

Former Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz is frequently blamed in Pakistani media and political and economic circles for the rapid decline of Pakistan's economy during the last six months. The critics say the economic boom under Mr. Aziz was short-lived because it was achieved by easy, plentiful consumer credit, massive borrowing and construction spending in public and private sectors. They further charge that Mr. Aziz promoted the service sector while ignoring large infrastructure projects to enhance Pakistan's agricultural and industrial sectors. They also claim that, if Mr. Aziz had done a good job, the economy would have continued to perform well in spite of all the changes that have transpired since he quit. Some go to the extent of claiming that there was no real economic boom and the whole boom story was a fabrication.

How Do Modern Economies Work?

To examine the validity of the charge sheet against Mr. Aziz, let us try and understand how modern economies work. Modern economies are all consumer driven and cyclical. To manage growth in modern economies, there are a number of tools and policy options deployed by economic leadership consisting of government and central bank officials. Controlling money supply is a key tool. When the economy is slowing, the governments resort to deficit spending, and central banks lower interest rates to encourage consumer borrowing. Government and consumer spending then produce increased demand for goods and services which encourage more investment in plant, equipment and real estate etc. These investments create jobs which further stimulate demand.

Can the Economy run on Autopilot?

There is no such thing as an economy on autopilot that continues to perform well by itself over long periods of time without competent human intervention. As the economy overheats, the inflation starts to become an issue which then requires the central banks to raise interest rates and tighten money supply to cool growth. The governments act in concert with the central banks to reduce spending and limit money supply in the economy. The monetary and fiscal policies must be coordinated. Pakistan's latest 2008-2009 budget should not have massive deficits with 30% increase in spending to cancel the effects of the central bank raising interest rates to tighten money supply.

Wise stewardship by country's economic leadership helps reduce the severity of the economic cycles. But it does require close monitoring and constant tweaking to keep the economy performing well.
The confidence of business and investor community in the economy also plays a significant role. If the businessmen and investors feel the government and central bankers are managing the economy well, they continue to play their role to maintain economic health. On the other hand, if they lose confidence in government's economic team, they begin to slow or even withdraw their investments which hits the economy hard.

How Did Shaukat Aziz Do?

Unlike many of his critics, Shaukat Aziz is a banker by training and extensive experience in New York. He is not an academic. His credentials are similar to those of the successful US treasury secretaries such as Bob Rubin and Nick Brady who did well under Clinton and Reagan administrations. He understands the role of banking, finance, investment and consumer credit in economic growth of a nation. He focused on building strong banking, investment and finance sectors in Pakistan to underpin its economy. He strengthened capital availability, an essential and increasingly important economic input, in addition to labor and land improvements. With higher education budget up 15-fold and overall education spending up 36% in two years, he focused on education to improve the availability of skilled labor to fill new jobs. He pushed land development and public and private construction spending to improve infrastructure and facilities to attract greater business investment, creating more jobs. Mr. Aziz was largely successful in his efforts.

Taking a leaf from the US housing policy to stimulate the economy, Mr. Aziz introduced low-rate mortgages in 2003. This initiative led to a construction boom and expanded housing for the growing middle class in Pakistan, contributing significantly to the GDP growth.

Pakistan's tax base grew with rapid economic growth over the last 9 years. The Federal Board of Revenue's tax collection surpassed Rs 1 trillion in 2007 from Rs. 500 billion in 1999. This effort was essential in managing the current account deficit during Shaukat Aziz's term in office.

When Shaukat Aziz took over as finance minister and later as Prime Minister, Pakistani economy was in shambles. In 1999 Pakistan’s total debt as percentage of GDP was the highest in South Asia – 99.3 percent of its GDP and 629 percent of its revenue receipts, compared to Sri Lanka (91.1% & 528.3% respectively in 1998) and India (47.2% & 384.9% respectively in 1998). Internal Debt of Pakistan in 1999 was 45.6 per cent of GDP and 289.1 per cent of its revenue receipts, as compared to Sri Lanka (45.7% & 264.8% respectively in 1998) and India (44.0% & 358.4% respectively in 1998). Read more about it here.
Most recent figures in 2007 indicate that Pakistan's total debt stands at 56% of GDP, significantly lower than the 99% of GDP in 1999. It also compares favorably with India's debt-to-GDP ratio of 59% and Sri Lanka's 85% in 2007. From being the highest debtor nation in South Asia, Pakistan has, in fact, become the lowest debtor nation in its region and achieved economic growth rate of about 7% a year during the last 6 years.

The Economist magazine in its June 12 issue comments on Pakistan's current and past Economic Performance as follows:" (The current) macroeconomic disarray will be familiar to the coalition government led by the Pakistan People's Party of Asif Zardari, and to Nawaz Sharif, whose party provides it “outside support”. Before Mr Sharif was ousted in 1999, the two parties had presided over a decade of corruption and mismanagement. But since then, as the IMF remarked in a report in January, there has been a transformation. Pakistan attracted over $5 billion in foreign direct investment in the 2006-07 fiscal year, ten times the figure of 2000-01. The government's debt fell from 68% of GDP in 2003-04 to less than 55% in 2006-07, and its foreign-exchange reserves reached $16.4 billion as recently as in October."

The turn-around engineered by Shaukat Aziz was applauded around the world. A 2005 Bloomberg headline, as reported by China's Peoples Daily, proclaimed as follows: "The world's second-fastest growing economy after China is no longer India. It's Pakistan."

Haq's Musings: Shaukat Aziz's Economic Legacy
 
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Ridiculous. It has nothing to do with discrimination and everything to do with corruption.


Ridiculous? I wish it were. But please read:
INDIA: Widespread corruption in the Public Food Distribution System causing starvation deaths

...

The continuation of caste-based discrimination is yet another factor that perpetuates poverty and deprivation of food, as was briefly mentioned in the Special Rapporteur’s report. [6] 60 years after independence, the prevention of caste-based discrimination remains on paper rather than being enforced in practice. Due to this, caste-based discrimination is widely practiced and discrimination prevents the lower castes from accessing food. Additionally, the lower castes are deprived of landed property and those who have titles to particular pieces of land are frequently prevented from actual possession by local feudal lords.


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Ridiculous? I wish it were. But please read:

I think caste discrimination is clearly part of the problem, though not the only problem.

Over 250 million people are victims of caste-based discrimination and segregation in India. They live miserable lives, shunned by much of society because of their ranks as untouchables or Dalits at the bottom of a rigid caste system in Hindu India. Dalits are discriminated against, denied access to land, forced to work in slave-like conditions, and routinely abused, even killed, at the hands of the police and of higher-caste groups that enjoy the state's protection, according to Human Rights Watch.

In what has been called Asia's hidden apartheid, entire villages in many Indian states remain completely segregated by caste. Caste-based abuse is also found in Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Japan, and several African states.

Haq's Musings: Dalit Victims of Apartheid in India

 
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I think caste discrimination is clearly part of the problem, though not the only problem.

Over 250 million people are victims of caste-based discrimination and segregation in India. They live miserable lives, shunned by much of society because of their ranks as untouchables or Dalits at the bottom of a rigid caste system in Hindu India. Dalits are discriminated against, denied access to land, forced to work in slave-like conditions, and routinely abused, even killed, at the hands of the police and of higher-caste groups that enjoy the state's protection, according to Human Rights Watch.

In what has been called Asia's hidden apartheid, entire villages in many Indian states remain completely segregated by caste. Caste-based abuse is also found in Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Japan, and several African states.

Haq's Musings: Dalit Victims of Apartheid in India

YouTube- indian dalits cv

:yahoo::yahoo::yahoo::cheers::cheers::cheers:

ya in India we have that problem, we are very slowly process to overcome this issue, don't worry about us, first clean your back and point out others:rofl::rofl:
 
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