Failure Of India's Big Rocket Project Is Symbolic Of Deep Structural Proble

[Ajaxpaul]

Stop make false assumptions. Just look at the facts.

Facts may show that India is 100 yrs behind everyone....But the point is we are trying to build an Indian cryogenic engine to lift off Indian payload....Why do we need to compare with others?

 

[faithfulguy]

Yes I am looking at the facts... The Americans had landed men in the moon in 1960's, If that is the case, now in 2012 they should be playing foot ball in the moon!

But it was a fact that India discovered water in moon rather than the NASA! The budget of ISRO is peanuts when compared with that of NASA, in addition there was a technology denied!

So in simple example... India was very good at making a 5000KM Ballistic missile and desperately trying to make a 15000 KM ballistic missile with NO help! All your cheap talk will exist till India becomes successful in GSLV launch!

Why is India using technology denied as a reason for lack of technical development? This just show that many Indians feel entitled that others should provide technology to India. The truth is that India should develop technology itself instead of complaining about others are not sharing everything with India.

 

[acid rain]

Why is India using technology denied as a reason for lack of technical development? This just show that many Indians feel entitled that others should provide technology to India. The truth is that India should develop technology itself instead of complaining about others are not sharing everything with India.

Dont think anybodys complaining about tech denial which is a fact even now, but the difference lies in what multinational trillions of dollars of research can do compared to Indias small investments in space research.

 

[Setting]

Why is India using technology denied as a reason for lack of technical development? This just show that many Indians feel entitled that others should provide technology to India. The truth is that India should develop technology itself instead of complaining about others are not sharing everything with India.

China begged and got the R7 Missile (A Rip-off of German V2 Rockets) from the Soviet Union and Soviet engineers personally started the Aviation and Space Industry in China.

Also Got Cryogenic Engine from the West.

India never got anything like that.

 

[Chanakyaa]

Why is India using technology denied as a reason for lack of technical development? This just show that many Indians feel entitled that others should provide technology to India. The truth is that India should develop technology itself instead of complaining about others are not sharing everything with India.

Lets Start with Mr. Professor aka faithfulguy !!

Sir,

With regard to ur post above, can you explain which area or Chinese Development is NOT Influenced Directly/Indirectly with Soviet Technology ? ( The Very Reason Chinese are referred to as Copy Cats ? )

Why Teach Us to do something that you yourself didnt hav the capacity to do ?

Mr faithfulguy have a reading .. :

Strategic Forces - Development of the Chinese Armed Forces

Just Consider the Nukes ::

Soviet leaders and scientists asserted that they supplied China with extensive and critical assistance; some even claimed that this transfer of nuclear technology shortened the time needed to develop China's nuclear weapons by at least 15 years

Project MUSE - Analysis of Soviet Technology Transfer in the Development of China's Nuclear Weapons

It was Done in the Past since 50s and Continued till date ...

http://rt.com/politics/soviet-china-military-technology/

Morale :: If your house is made of glass don't throw stones on others

 

[Rocky25]

Why is India using technology denied as a reason for lack of technical development? This just show that many Indians feel entitled that others should provide technology to India. The truth is that India should develop technology itself instead of complaining about others are not sharing everything with India.

Look, don't speak like an idiot! If Japan or China uses advanced rockets means, US gave the technology and China stole/reverse engineer the know how from the Russians.

The Americans and Russians did not develop the cryogenic engines over night... They had invested huge amount of money and man power into it!

If India took technology denial as the reason for the lack of technical development then there would be no Agni III or Agni V now! India worked hard to develop its own engine which will be tested soon!

If you cannot read the news on latest development, You should NOT comment!

 

[arp2041]

@Nan Yang, I am sorry to say bro. but u have serious troubles in understanding simple English.

Let's do a little recap, ok??

Our conversation started when i posted this:

The problem is not with the design of GSLV as such, but the indigenous cryogenic engine, Currently only 5 nations - France, US, UK, China & Russia have achieved mastery over it & India is only the sixth nation trying to get this tech., so failures are bound to happen, but the important thing is that India is TRYING and that's what matters, ISRO has tested the cryogenic engine for it's complete flight path (time) & the tests were encouraging. The GSLV & GSLV MK3 launches are due next year, so i request u to be patient & don't jump to conclusions yet, as i said before India is already in an elite club of space faring nations.

I was being as rational as i could be, than u replied me with this:

My question is about the reliability of GSLV. Your GSLV design is not that complicated.

India in the "Elite Club" ? In terms of frequency of launches and total payload, India is only ahead of countries like Iran and the Koreas. Be realistic. Why do you think so many posters say Indians like to boast.

now i don't understand how this can be a reply of my post. Are u a rocket scientist such that u know if a design is complicated or not??

+ u din't mention why India is not in an elite club, also u posted a graph for which u didn't had the source, i even searched it by google but found nothing, graph updated on the same day of ur post?? have u made it urself???

than, i requested u for source by this post:

Mate, do u have the source for this pie chart, i seriously doubt this figure, it is updated on 27/11/2012 (i can do that as well).

give me the source & i will reply to each of ur points.

& u replied me with another ambiguous reply/graph:

No mistake.

Than i asked u specific queries, so that u can justify ur earlier posts:

To be specific:

1. How is India not in an Elite Club??
2. How can India be compared to Iran & Korea??
3. How the GSLV design is not that complicated?? If it is simple why doesn't ur country make one??
4. And who the hell says that I just boast & not post realistically??

but ur reply is:

Only 2 launches in 2012 and only a total payload of 2.6tons.
Only 3 launches in 2011 and only a total payload of 3.8tons (1.4 to GEO).
Only 1 launches in 2010 (2 failed) and only a total payload of 0.8ton.
Only 2 launches in 2009 and only a total payload of 1.3tons
Thus in the past 4 years, India total of 8 sucessful launches lifted only 7.1tons to LEO and 1.4tons to GEO.

Just for comparison, just one launch of Japan's H-2B can lift 16.5tons to LEO.
And just one launch of China's CZ-3B/E can lift 11.5 tons to LEO.

These are facts and realistic. Yes India media play up the number of satellites instead of launches despite some of the micro-satellites weighting only 1 kg !

Example in this one launch in 2009, the payload consisted of 6 satellites.
But 4 of the satellites weight only 1kg each !

I mean what has India's elite club status to do with payload & no. of launches, is it about quantity or quality?? & did i ever said that India is ahead of Japan/China in space????

 

[Nan Yang]

^^^^^
Arguing with you make me want to vomit blood. I will just let the facts speaks for itself.

 

[ajtr]

^^^^^
Arguing with you make me want to vomit blood. I will just let the facts speaks for itself.

you should rather concentrate on the subject how to offer namaz 5 times while in space that will heal all those injuries these indian arguments are causing to you.

 

[conworldus]

^^^^^
Arguing with you make me want to vomit blood. I will just let the facts speaks for itself.

Indians employ a strange logic to justify everything they do, even when they are clear failures. I am going to post something here from the Bharak-rakshak forum. Since it is not modded by Pakistanis but rather Indians, you can see how ridiculously they troll. Things like this get deleted here.

WARNING: IF YOU CANNOT HANDLE HUMOR PLEASE DO NOT READ THE INDIAN POSTS BELOW. The *ed out words are derogatory words toward Pakistanis.

==============================================================


Bheeshma
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011Posted: 29 Nov 2012 13:29

BRFite

Joined: 03 May 2012 22:34
Posts: 183
LOL chinese guns. Wonder why ***** are still wanting M-109 instead of these junks.Even the decision to go for the mediocre jokes like F-22p came after US turned down request fro 30 year old OHP's and they couldn't whip up 350 mil for 3 Type-22's. Now after begging around the world for new subs they seem to have decided buying low quality chinese subs is better than no subs. Thats is what chinese products stand for "Something better than nothing".


Top


=================================================



NRao
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011Posted: 28 Nov 2012 07:21

BRF Oldie

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 7539
Location: Illini Nation
From what I can see China has a grand total of 0 planes they have designed in-house. Even their Z series attack helos are ripoffs.

That they have made all that work (if they actually do to the extent we think they do), great.

But, the next gen is going to be a problem. All their national heroes who designed these machines will pop off and without any fundamental research all they will have is hot air and national pride to deal with.

If China is unable to get all the territories she claims is hers before these techs become obsolete then this house of cards will collapse.


======================

Karan M
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011Posted: 27 Nov 2012 09:33

BRFite

Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58
Posts: 1176
shiv wrote:
A good man may have died, but may I post a photo of the J-15 that was "designed" by this man?

It looks like an Su-33 to me



And AQ Khan developed nuclear technology after Pakistan ate grass. But nothing to be surprised about, really.

Admission of Russian help for FC-1 leading to the program being salvaged? Zero.
Admission that the J-11s are now nothing but ripoffs of Sukhoi's genius? Zero.
Admission that elements of the J-20 and huge design elements of the J-31 are virtual ripoffs of other fighters? Zero.

The mainland Chinese MIC folks and their online supporters seem to think that being brazen & dishonest is all ok.
Fundamentally, this is why these "experts" try to downplay anything Indian, given the amount of transparency in India about anything & everything "imported".

Their so called ZTZ-xx tanks? All based off the classical Soviet template of the T-72. Unlike India with the Arjun and its involvement with KMW, no admission of China talking of the ZTZ origins openly and any discussion regarding the flaws in the T-xx system.
The PL-series AAMs? One is a direct 1-1 copy of a Russian AAM. Another a TOT derivative of the Israeli Python-3. Another uses a Russian seeker apparently (but just see whether any Chinese fan will admit to anything of the sort)

I still remember some Chinese chap coming here a few months bragging about how India was taking Russian help for the Kaveri as versus China stlong.

Later I researched and discovered, that the Russians actually SOLD an entire IL-76 engine testbed to the Chinese for their engine programs. And the WS-10 still has lousy reliability.

These guys have literally copied, purchased everything from Russia - but cannot acknowledge any of it. Where does this massive insecurity stem from?

==========================


Bheeshma
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011Posted: 29 Nov 2012 10:02

BRFite

Joined: 03 May 2012 22:34
Posts: 183
China has nothing in Bofors or the 155mm FH-77 light gun category. India license manufactures excellent guns china uses crappy home made guns that even ***** don't want.


Top

=======================

How can you argue with people who are think like this?

 

[arp2041]

^^^^^
Arguing with you make me want to vomit blood. I will just let the facts speaks for itself.

why not just accept u were wrong in the first place??

 

[gslv mk3]

One can conclude, this is a genuine article on Indian failures.

Reason : Indian members, rather than addressing the topic are attacking the messenger.

Superduperco cannot even build sounding rockets...Shut up!!!

 

[gslv mk3]

Why is India using technology denied as a reason for lack of technical development? This just show that many Indians feel entitled that others should provide technology to India. The truth is that India should develop technology itself instead of complaining about others are not sharing everything with India.

Answer for all trollers....

GSLV mark IIII

The rocket is the technological successor to the GSLV, however is not derived from its predecessor.

Stage 0 - Boosters

Worlds third largest Solid Rocket Booster

The boosters used on the GSLV-III will be the S-200, which is also designated Large Solid Booster, or LSB, which is a solid propellant stage with a mass of 200 tonnes. Two boosters will be used. Each has a diameter of 3.2 metres and a length of 25 metres. Each booster generates 560 tonnes-force (5.50 MN) of thrust at lift-off

Status-Already tested


Stage 1-Core stage

The core stage will be the L-110 restartable liquid stage which has 110 tonnes of liquid propellant and a diameter of 4-metres. It will be the first Indian liquid engine cluster design, and will use two improved Vikas engines, each producing 75 tonnes (735 kN) of thrust. The improved Vikas engine will use regenerative cooling, providing improved weight and specific impulse, compared to earlier rockets

Status-Already tested
Vikas is one of most reliable Engines of ISRO....

Stage 2-Upper stage

The upper stage will be the C-25, powered by the CE-20 engine, fueled by 25 tonnes of LOX+LH2. It has a 4-metre diameter and is 8.2 metres long. The stage will produce 20 tonnes (197 kN) of thrust.Upper stage
The upper stage will be the C-25, powered by the CE-20 engine, fueled by 25 tonnes of LOX+LH2. It has a 4-metre diameter and is 8.2 metres long. The stage will produce 20 tonnes (197 kN) of thrust

Status-Already tested

 

[Nan Yang]

Answer for all trollers....

GSLV mark IIII

The rocket is the technological successor to the GSLV, however is not derived from its predecessor.

Stage 0 - Boosters

Worlds third largest Solid Rocket Booster

The boosters used on the GSLV-III will be the S-200, which is also designated Large Solid Booster, or LSB, which is a solid propellant stage with a mass of 200 tonnes. Two boosters will be used. Each has a diameter of 3.2 metres and a length of 25 metres. Each booster generates 560 tonnes-force (5.50 MN) of thrust at lift-off

Status-Already tested


Stage 1-Core stage

The core stage will be the L-110 restartable liquid stage which has 110 tonnes of liquid propellant and a diameter of 4-metres. It will be the first Indian liquid engine cluster design, and will use two improved Vikas engines, each producing 75 tonnes (735 kN) of thrust. The improved Vikas engine will use regenerative cooling, providing improved weight and specific impulse, compared to earlier rockets

Status-Already tested
Vikas is one of most reliable Engines of ISRO....

Stage 2-Upper stage

The upper stage will be the C-25, powered by the CE-20 engine, fueled by 25 tonnes of LOX+LH2. It has a 4-metre diameter and is 8.2 metres long. The stage will produce 20 tonnes (197 kN) of thrust.Upper stage
The upper stage will be the C-25, powered by the CE-20 engine, fueled by 25 tonnes of LOX+LH2. It has a 4-metre diameter and is 8.2 metres long. The stage will produce 20 tonnes (197 kN) of thrust

Status-Already tested

Why dont you get this simpler rocket to work first ?

 

[karan21]

Why dont you get this simpler rocket to work first ?

Yes you are right, just for your concerns we are launching this rocket in january. Just wait.