Failure of India to Resist the Turkic Conquests

[INS_Vikrant]

Yeah much like Europe, soviet Russians invading Germany in alliance with allied forces or Napoleon's France being defeated by -------.

How was "India" a nation state in the modern sense?

Made mistake, forgot to right not before nation state. Corrected now.

 

[Maula Jatt]

View attachment 793429
Idk about this adopted Turk theory. If you go to any Turkish cultural center. They will have flag of Mughal Empire hanging along with Ottoman and other Turkic empires.

Anatolians only have 7% genes from Central Asia, we are "Greek" Muslims

Celal Şengor, a professor from Turkey, made another hit against the mythology of a majority-Turkish admixture in the genetic make up Turkish-citizens, particularly those from Anatolia. Speaking on television, the professor said that the genes of Anatolian peoples is made up of only 7% from...

defence.pk

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

Lolz there is a huge difference in what i claim and wat u replied. Again central asia is not KPK and who denied it being budhist? Infact my claim is that KPK was all budhist and pashtuns are not indigenous. U r just repeating urself and what i said. Tell me any pashto books u read before telling me my history written by some stupid traveller from abroad. Why is it that these morons claim yousafzais are indigenous to the area while not a single yousafzai have doubt about their migration? Its not even that far in past, it was around 1500s. So u believe these stupid western writers?

Yes you said both baluchistan and KPK were people from outside.. now that you have backtracked from Baluchistan , let me tell you about the southern kpk tribes that have largely existed there and not on the other side of the border
Bettani, Lohani, khatak and shitak.Many of them may have ancestry link to area of ghor(afghanistan) but that should not be confused with the origin place of the tribe itself. The first settlement of the Khattaks was at Shawal a valley near the Pir Ghal peak(highest peak in suleiman range). Most of them proclaim to be dwellers of the land of qais abdu rashid(suleiman range in Pakistan)..And i havent even talked about tribes of exFATA yet.

Dude you said khorasanis did not embrace islam by sword..How do you think they converted from buddhism to islam in such a short duration.Thats why i brought up this point..
There are buddhist remains in kandhar area which is recognized by many as the heartland of Pashtuns.I think its nothigng to be embarassed of..This is history.You shoudlnt share the burden of choices your ancestors made. Also theres a thin line between this and ethnofacism which was one of the reasons pashtun fought among themselves for centuries.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

Idk about this adopted Turk theory. If you go to any Turkish cultural center. They will have flag of Mughal Empire hanging along with

Thats the flag of ghaznavid..See my DP..Delhi Sultans and Mughals later adopted with some modifications it..Even our Pakistani flag today looks like an extension of the original flag the Ghaznavids brought.It shows the advent of Islam to the mainlands of Pakistan that was the time people started converting in masses.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Thats the flag of ghaznavid..See my DP..Delhi Sultans and Mughals later adopted with some modifications it..Even our Pakistani flag today looks like an extension of the original flag the Ghaznavids brought.It shows the advent of Islam to the mainlands of Pakistan that was the time people started converting in masses.

There are different variations of flags. But this is what Mughal Empire used.

 

[retaxis]

Turks of Turkey are not genetically "Turkic", they're largely Turkicized Anatolian peoples. The Ottoman dynasty itself had become more European than Turkic in terms of ancestry, go over each ruler of the Ottoman Empire and look at the ethnicity of each of their mothers.


Tatars during that period would have not looked any different from their Mongol counterparts.

Modern Tatars have European features because they have intermixed with European peoples for over a millennia after migrating West into Volga Ural and Crimean regions.

Turkish people throughout history before ottomans were all eastern chinese looking very mongol like. Modern Turkey has only 7-9% of real Turkish DNA and the rest is Indian DNA (18%) and European/Middle Eastern (75%).

DNA-based tests shake Turks’ beliefs in their “Turkishness” | Ahval

ahvalnews.com

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

View attachment 793790
There are different variations of flags. But this is what Mughal Empire used.

That was after Akbar who brought it to build influence in shias and associated it with timur
neverthless the original babr flag was still used.

The original mughal flag was that of babar and it looked like this

 

[TNT]

Oh you're one of those, I think it's best that I don't waste time with you then.

History is not a fact, its a narrative. I am not one of those who portray fairytales but i am also not one of those who blindly believed what goras wrote. They were outsiders and recorded what they thought, without input of local knowledge. My point in this theead is singular and that is that pashtuns are not indigenous to KPK. This theory is widely accepted by pashtun scholars and historians. I attended a conference on it in Peshawar university pashto deppt. It was about how yousafzais migrated from Afghanistan and managed to build a yousafzai empire in current northern KPK. The famous personalities were discussed. But gora sahab has written that yousafzais were indigenous to the north KPK which is totally wrong. The main enemy of yousafzai were the mughals, and the famous mughal general beerbal was killed in a war with yousafzais.

 

[TNT]

Yes you said both baluchistan and KPK were people from outside.. now that you have backtracked from Baluchistan , let me tell you about the southern kpk tribes that have largely existed there and not on the other side of the border
Bettani, Lohani, khatak and shitak.Many of them may have ancestry link to area of ghor(afghanistan) but that should not be confused with the origin place of the tribe itself. The first settlement of the Khattaks was at Shawal a valley near the Pir Ghal peak(highest peak in suleiman range). Most of them proclaim to be dwellers of the land of qais abdu rashid(suleiman range in Pakistan)..And i havent even talked about tribes of exFATA yet.

Dude you said khorasanis did not embrace islam by sword..How do you think they converted from buddhism to islam in such a short duration.Thats why i brought up this point..
There are buddhist remains in kandhar area which is recognized by many as the heartland of Pashtuns.I think its nothigng to be embarassed of..This is history.You shoudlnt share the burden of choices your ancestors made. Also theres a thin line between this and ethnofacism which was one of the reasons pashtun fought among themselves for centuries.

You said it urself, they have links from ghor. Also you should know tribal areas have never been part of KPK, untill recently. These are overlapping areas. My point of pashtuns not being indigenous to KPK stands and its u backtracking and finding excuses. Almost every tribe find its roots outside KPK. Visit pashto deppt of Peshawar university and u can get some knowledge abt pashtun history. What gora sahab wrote is not ultimate truth.
Let me tell u another pashto scholarly debate, it is that khattaks are not pashtuns, though khattaks disagree, many pashto scholars believe so because khattaks can not trace their lineage or tribe to Afghanistan. They were also mughal allies and against most pashtuns.
Balochistan is scarcely populated today, so one can wonder how it was one or two thousand years ago, i have not backtracked but balochistan is more complicated because all are not pashtuns and i dont know much abt local tribes. The achakzai and other pashtuns all claim to have migrated from Afghanistan.

The very fact that they converted in such a short duration means they were not forced and werw not budhist. Only monotheists quickly accepted Islam as it coroborated with their already established beliefs. Budhists have always resisted conversion.
Why would anyone feel embarrassed by history? I guess its u with that notion in mind, hence rejecting the local knowledge and believing what 28 yrs old British surveyors wrote, who couldnt even speak the local language. My aim here is to give the ground reality perspective and what the local history tells us. I doubt anyone of u have ever read a pashto history book.

 

[Maula Jatt]

History is not a fact, its a narrative. I am not one of those who portray fairytales but i am also not one of those who blindly believed what goras wrote. They were outsiders and recorded what they thought, without input of local knowledge. My point in this theead is singular and that is that pashtuns are not indigenous to KPK. This theory is widely accepted by pashtun scholars and historians. I attended a conference on it in Peshawar university pashto deppt. It was about how yousafzais migrated from Afghanistan and managed to build a yousafzai empire in current northern KPK. The famous personalities were discussed. But gora sahab has written that yousafzais were indigenous to the north KPK which is totally wrong. The main enemy of yousafzai were the mughals, and the famous mughal general beerbal was killed in a war with yousafzais.

Evidence matters not gora version of history or Pashtun version of history

Uptill now we can only find evidence that correlates with gora version of history

You said it urself, they have links from ghor. Also you should know tribal areas have never been part of KPK, untill recently. These are overlapping areas. My point of pashtuns not being indigenous to KPK stands and its u backtracking and finding excuses. Almost every tribe find its roots outside KPK. Visit pashto deppt of Peshawar university and u can get some knowledge abt pashtun history. What gora sahab wrote is not ultimate truth.
Let me tell u another pashto scholarly debate, it is that khattaks are not pashtuns, though khattaks disagree, many pashto scholars believe so because khattaks can not trace their lineage or tribe to Afghanistan. They were also mughal allies and against most pashtuns.
Balochistan is scarcely populated today, so one can wonder how it was one or two thousand years ago, i have not backtracked but balochistan is more complicated because all are not pashtuns and i dont know much abt local tribes. The achakzai and other pashtuns all claim to have migrated from Afghanistan.

The very fact that they converted in such a short duration means they were not forced and werw not budhist. Only monotheists quickly accepted Islam as it coroborated with their already established beliefs. Budhists have always resisted conversion.
Why would anyone feel embarrassed by history? I guess its u with that notion in mind, hence rejecting the local knowledge and believing what 28 yrs old British surveyors wrote, who couldnt even speak the local language. My aim here is to give the ground reality perspective and what the local history tells us. I doubt anyone of u have ever read a pashto history book.

Man "local" history is mostly made up of biases and what people of the region "feel" like thinking

Unless they present solid evidence, some research papers, archeological survey's

I'll never ever trust them as they are mostly folk takes on history

 

[TNT]

Evidence matters not gora version of history or Pashtun version of history

Uptill now we can only find evidence that correlates with gora version of history

Man "local" history is mostly made up of biases and what people of the region "feel" like thinking

Unless they present solid evidence, some research papers, archeological survey's

I'll never ever trust them as they are mostly folk takes on history

I have not seen any evidence from the other side either. Except, i travelled there and saw bla bla bla. Not much of an evidence is it. On the other hand, local historians provide much more credible info. For example they give names of chiefs, we find their graves and confirm the story from their offspring. There is a pashto deppt in Peshawar uni and alot of scholars working. Interested people should visit. There is an exhibition every year as well.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

You said it urself, they have links from ghor. Also you should know tribal areas have never been part of KPK, untill recently. These are overlapping areas. My point of pashtuns not being indigenous to KPK stands and its u backtracking and finding excuses. Almost every tribe find its roots outside KPK. Visit pashto deppt of Peshawar university and u can get some knowledge abt pashtun history. What gora sahab wrote is not ultimate truth.
Let me tell u another pashto scholarly debate, it is that khattaks are not pashtuns, though khattaks disagree, many pashto scholars believe so because khattaks can not trace their lineage or tribe to Afghanistan. They were also mughal allies and against most pashtuns.
Balochistan is scarcely populated today, so one can wonder how it was one or two thousand years ago, i have not backtracked but balochistan is more complicated because all are not pashtuns and i dont know much abt local tribes. The achakzai and other pashtuns all claim to have migrated from Afghanistan.

The very fact that they converted in such a short duration means they were not forced and werw not budhist. Only monotheists quickly accepted Islam as it coroborated with their already established beliefs. Budhists have always resisted conversion.
Why would anyone feel embarrassed by history? I guess its u with that notion in mind, hence rejecting the local knowledge and believing what 28 yrs old British surveyors wrote, who couldnt even speak the local language. My aim here is to give the ground reality perspective and what the local history tells us. I doubt anyone of u have ever read a pashto history book.

I said they have ancestry, do you have a basic understanding how its different from known family lineage/tree.. But many pashtuns confuse it with origin place of their tribe( like you just now) , often for political reasons.They also have ancestry from south indians so whats your point and of course the bigger chunk of ancestry is Baloch + Ancestral south indian which can be used to determine a different conclusion.. So regardless how you circle around the events of last 600 years Im talking about pashtuns from a perspective of last 3000 years where they may have moved east west north and south back and forth and we all still say the origin of pashtuns are obscure but you your fellows are bent on proving that origin was from across the border with absolutely no material evidence eventhough it directly conflicts with your qais abdur rasheed theory ..We can keep talking about Duranis on Pakistan side claim toba achakzai(Pakistan) as the birth place of their tribe while Afghan duranis on other side considerring afghan side birthplace ..this war will go on till people like you exist..... ..funny you omit peshawar out of the budhist region considering it was always khowar people city.
And yes FATA is now kpk so you are wrong and thanks for accepting it.. Meanwhile I will wait for any khatak here on the forum to come and reply you regarding the trash scholarly debate that has been used to usurp each others land over hundreds of years.Khhattaks are mentioned by greeks as satragadiye and I'm sure greeks weren't bribed by khataks to be declared pactiyan and they were living aroundindus as per records. AL BERUNI was not a gora.. as per him pakhtun were living all the way upto sindh and even in mainland sindh and punjab around late 900s thats also why your scholars are biased , proves the point that anything coming out from locals has to be judged from neutral spectator..And british excavated most of the sites for you during 1800s , you granted them right to do so and accepted their neutrality. It's not me but your idealogues who accepted the goras to work on your heritage, but because history was not as sweet they rather considered to burry it.

 

[Itachi]

The important thing to note here is there is nothing "Muslim" about Turkic military prowess. They equal warriors whether they are kaffir Tengrist, secular or ghazi's of Islam. Meaning a Turkic Tengrist will always prevail over a Gangadeshi, shaved, unshaved, circumcised.

Being warrior is innate to the Turkic people.

Not really...

Mongol Invasion of India was stopped by Muslim Turks who ruled India. Mongols followed the Tengri. And they cohabitated the area with other Turkic tribes.

Some consider Turks and Mongols to be cousins...

One accepted Islam and went on to do great many things. Other accepted Islam later on and got defeated by Turks twice, once in India and once in Egypt (Baibars and co.).

So much for your theory.

 

[Comrade bhartiya]

Whatever the reason , even after inavsions massacres etc etc , hinduism survives .Look at iran , the sons of xeres failed miserably to in front of islamic arab hordes.
Yes jihad and islam major factors for turks winning.
Before turks came huns too , they could not capture much of india , except the ones of modern day pakistan .
Plus many became hindus themselves .
Melachas coming and conquering would be rectified after 600 years of their rule , by the marathas and others .
Then british came.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

Whatever the reason , even after inavsions massacres etc etc , hinduism survives .Look at iran , the sons of xeres failed miserably to in front of islamic arab hordes.
Yes jihad and islam major factors for turks winning.
Before turks came huns too , they could not capture much of india , except the ones of modern day pakistan .
Plus many became hindus themselves .
Melachas coming and conquering would be rectified after 600 years of their rule , by the marathas and others .
Then british came.

hinduism was born after scythians annihilated the ganges people who followed the now dead vedic religion . The survivors left vedism to save themselves and adopted local aboriginal pagan practices which are also part of your hinduism today...initially it was brahmanism, it changed over time later turned into early forms of hinduism..Contemporary hinduism practiced today was totally different from vedism