F16 ARE NO GOOD AGAINST THE US AIR FORCE

[Jango]

When you know that anything coming from the west is hostile.. you still fire.. you can do that.
However, the catch is if the enemy is withing your airspace, and you get a false friendly.. you arent sure if that is your guy or the enemy's. For which you use visual identification or in the PAF's case..a secondary system.

What secondary system?


Or is it a secret?

 

[SQ8]

What secondary system?


Or is it a secret?

lets leave it at not being a secret, but not being said either.. shall we.

 

[Ark-Angel]

I think an F15E was shot down in Libya during the recent conflict

U.S. F-15 fighter jet down in Libya, crew "safe" - CBS News

 

[Jango]

lets leave it at not being a secret, but not being said either.. shall we.

Okay then, 'mitti pao'.

 

[LeGenD]

U.S. F-15 fighter jet down in Libya, crew "safe" - CBS News

There are conflicting reports of what happened to this Jet.

Still this is irrelevant. Main point is that F-15 series Jets have never been lost in A-2-A engagements.

 

[rockstarIN]

What secondary system?


Or is it a secret?

Secondary system....read his post again..

For which you use visual identification or in the PAF's case..a secondary system

a beep beep warning sound of a (BVR) missile coming at you in case of enemy craft..before you go for visual identification.

little trolling..

 

[Jango]

Secondary system....read his post again..


a beep beep warning sound of a (BVR) missile coming at you in case of enemy craft..before you go for visual identification.

little trolling..

Did not reallly get that?

 

[rockstarIN]

Did not reallly get that?

He said,

1) Visual Identification
2) Secondary system

Secondary system = incoming missile warning...if not, then friend or yes then..

 

[Jango]

He said,

1) Visual Identification
2) Secondary system

Secondary system = incoming missile warning...if not, then friend or yes then..

But that would be after the missile has been fired. What I wanted to know was how to identify before.

 

[SQ8]

He said,

1) Visual Identification
2) Secondary system

Secondary system = incoming missile warning...if not, then friend or yes then..

to say the least.
think of it as a secondary IFF system ..completely separate from the Aircraft itself. But gives the pilot the ability to interrogate a target and decide its friend or foe status. Fairly quick.

 

[rockstarIN]

to say the least.
think of it as a secondary IFF system ..completely separate from the Aircraft itself. But gives the pilot the ability to interrogate a target and decide its friend or foe status. Fairly quick.

I did not mean that either.

Tell me one thing, for the above task..you need to switch on your main radar on, is it?

 

[VCheng]

to say the least.
think of it as a secondary IFF system ..completely separate from the Aircraft itself. But gives the pilot the ability to interrogate a target and decide its friend or foe status. Fairly quick.

I did not mean that either.

Tell me one thing, for the above task..you need to switch on your main radar on, is it?

Please see the bolded part above.

 

[Jango]

Please see the bolded part above.

AWACS???, or some other source?

 

[Chogy]

What about a "false friendly"?

With IFF, the only way an enemy can scam you is if he has two things:

1) Functional and installed compatible IFF
2) A secret code

To spoof, he'd need the encrypted code of the day, and have it uploaded into his unit. For him to have the code would mean that Pakistani security has been seriously breached, and this is 100% different from some hardware "off" function.

If the code was incorrect, the interrogating aircraft would receive a symbol that tells him "This guy has a functioning IFF but the code is incorrect." Depending upon ROE, he'd either smoke him anyhow, or he'd look for further ID.

 

[Chogy]

Secondary systems: Google "NCTR" - Non Cooperative Target Recognition. Used to be a very deep secret but to my great surprise was published in Aviation Week and other tech journals many years ago.

The story goes something like this...

"An experienced F-15 pilot was visiting Hughes, the guys who make the APG-63 radar. He was talking to a technician, who was looking at the waveform of a radar return. He noticed a tight series of spikes, and asked 'what are these?' 'Oh, those are the harmonics created by the rotating parts of the engine, both compressor and turbine. They vary from engine to engine. We normally filter them out as garbage.' Eureka. They created a software algorithm and database of Russian and also NATO engines. This sort of NCTR was considered a positive ID and allowed for BVR shots.

Just typing this gives me the creeps, but it is open source stuff.

NCTR in the F-15 (for example) is a technical, software-based system that analyses the returns bounced back from fan blades and turbine blades. Granted, in something like the F-22, NCTR may be altogether more sophisticated and involve multiple sensors and techniques, but that has nothing to do with JEM.

JEM, as described by USAF technical manuals, involves: "modulations from moving parts on the target, such as engine turbine blades, which can create higher order doppler returns from front or tail aspect targets which result in detections exhibiting false velocity information". JEM tracks are normally resolved automatically by the radar and data associated with them are discarded. Thus, JEM has nothing to do with EIDing a contact.