F-60 / J-31 stealth fighter aircraft for Pakistan Air Force?

[Zabaniyah]

Actually, Pakistan does have a few twin engine jets, the problem is that they're old. There is the added matter that Pakistan's military has never felt the need to have modern twin engine planes, as China offered to sell Pakistan it's J-11bs but Pakistan rejected the offer.

There was thread about it:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/11690-pakistan-has-been-offered-chinese-4th-generation-j-11-su27.html

 

[That Guy]

There was thread about it:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/11690-pakistan-has-been-offered-chinese-4th-generation-j-11-su27.html

Yup, that's the one. Rumor has it though that the reason why Pakistan rejected it may have to do with Pakistan's aggressive push to develop good relations with Russia. If Pakistan bought the J-11, Russia would have been angry at Pakistan too for stealing it's intellectual property.

Either way, what's done is done. All Pakistan can hope to do now is buy the F-60 with (hopefully, reliable and ready) Chinese engines.

 

[SBD-3]

J-31/PAK-FA/J-20 all are at least 5-7 years away from being cleared for limited operational use or Initial Operational Clearance (IOC). This stealth technology and the desire to get better than the counterparts is not so easy to achieve; US had tons of knowledge and experience before initiating F-35 project. But the "desire" to make it the best-in-town was apparently not so easy to get.

The more time these countries spend on R&D of these projects, the more will be per unit price. The cost factor writers/experts are talking about today will either be diminished or gone when "operational version" of these stealth aircraft will be put in service. Same is the case with J-31, it will still be a fairly low-cost Stealth fighter in 2020; but won't be as cost effective as it is projected today.

But how sure are we that J-31 is a production concept? Even the rumored J-10B was revealed to be a prototype for J-10C (as per Chinese fora) and still with J-20, it is not clear that it would become the test-bed for another generation of stealth fighters.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Yup, that's the one. Rumor has it though that the reason why Pakistan rejected it may have to do with Pakistan's aggressive push to develop good relations with Russia. If Pakistan bought the J-11, Russia would have been angry at Pakistan too for stealing it's intellectual property.

Either way, what's done is done. All Pakistan can hope to do now is buy the F-60 with (hopefully, reliable and ready) Chinese engines.

Even if Russia protested, there would be very little they can do about it since it isn't a full member of the WTO.

The F-60 option isn't all bad, but then it'd take years or even decades for it to fully mature to reach similar standards as the F-35.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Ignoring the $$$ factor, it is very unlikely that the US would offer the F-15 Eagle to Pakistan.

Pakistan has decided not to buy US manufactured aircrafts no more.

PAF will exclusively buy Chinese aircrafts from now onwards.

 

[That Guy]

Even if Russia protested, there would be very little they can do about it since it isn't a full member of the WTO.

The F-60 option isn't all bad, but then it'd take years or even decades for it to fully mature to reach similar standards as the F-35.

Well, it would damage Pakistan's push to build good relations with Russia, but you're right, there is little they could do about.

The F-60 won't need to mature at a fast rate, as long as the bare minimum requirements are filled, having multiple air forces give it flight hours will drastically lower the time required to mature the system.

As for the F-35, please don't mention that potato. I'm already angry at my government for wasting billions on it and lying to the people about it.

Pakistan has decided not to buy US manufactured aircrafts no more.

PAF will exclusively buy Chinese aircrafts from now onwards.

PAF still wants to buy US planes, the only problem is the restrictions and potential sanctions on Pakistan in the future. If those restrictions are bypassed, and Pakistan is treated fairly (like India is), then Pakistan would go for US planes without any hesitation. The only reason why PAF is opting for Chinese planes is because China doesn't care how the PAF uses the systems that it buys from China.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Well, it would damage Pakistan's push to build good relations with Russia, but you're right, there is little they could do about.

The F-60 won't need to mature at a fast rate, as long as the bare minimum requirements are filled, having multiple air forces give it flight hours will drastically lower the time required to mature the system.

As for the F-35, please don't mention that potato. I'm already angry at my government for wasting billions on it and lying to the people about it.



PAF still wants to buy US planes, the only problem is the restrictions and potential sanctions on Pakistan in the future. If those restrictions are bypassed, and Pakistan is treated fairly (like India is), then Pakistan would go for US planes without any hesitation. The only reason why PAF is opting for Chinese planes is because China doesn't care how the PAF uses the systems that it buys from China.

Well Duuuh .

That is the whole point why we cannot trust the US or Europeans ( under US pressure ).

They are unreliable as a source. Why would we want to buy Billions of Dollars worth of Equipment from them and the equiment becoming useless if they stop selling parts under some embargo. So Billions of dollars worth of Equipment starts rusting away on the tarmac because of their actions.

This is why Pakistan has decided to go for Equipment where we are completely assured of continuous supply and preferably such Equipment comes with Transfer of Technology and the equipment is designed based on our stated specifications to suit our unique requirements. China is an ideal partner in this respect because they manufacture the equipment to our specifications as well as provide us with the TOT.

 

[Fieldmarshal]

Pakistan has decided not to buy US manufactured aircrafts no more.

PAF will exclusively buy Chinese aircrafts from now onwards.

is this ur own assessment or a official policy

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

is this ur own assessment or a official policy

well that makes sense if we get jets from them china no restriction will be there on their use
and this isnt the case with US OF A

 

[muse]

For the foreseeable future,(5-10 years) We should not consider any aircraft system other than JFT - this time frame offers us the opportunity to reorganize PAC as a public/private enterprise with shares traded internationally - this will bring in greater funds and allow PAC to set additional units, including dedicated propulsion research, development and manufacturing. This period of time will allow PAF to create an infrastructure to absorb future technologies, regardless of their origin and in doing so bring the PAF to the technological level it needs to be on to meet challenges - I would reiterate to any interested that the IAF or any Indian uniformed personnel are not likely to the adversary PAF and Pakistan will continue to be under threat from

 

[panyimao]

J-31 if the export is certainly the first user Pakistan because Pakistan is the Chinese people's most trusted brother, but I personally feel that I do not like Shenyang aircraft.

 

[Pakistanisage]

J-31 if the export is certainly the first user Pakistan because Pakistan is the Chinese people's most trusted brother, but I personally feel that I do not like Shenyang aircraft.

Pakistan Air Force will continue buy Chinese fighters that are available for Export and fit in well PAF strategic requirements. The next Purchase would likely be one of the Export versions of China's Fifth Generation aircrafts that are available for sale to Pakistan, so that PAF can face any adversary on its border that threatens its existence.

Pakistani people appreciate the help and guidance of their Chinese Brothers and standby their Chinese friends in international forums.

 

[Najam Khan]

But how sure are we that J-31 is a production concept? Even the rumored J-10B was revealed to be a prototype for J-10C (as per Chinese fora) and still with J-20, it is not clear that it would become the test-bed for another generation of stealth fighters.

Based on the reports / hints by Chinese media/internet; It is believed that J-31 would be a production/export version stealth aircraft. The design hints that too; at least the engine has reusable/similar components to RD-93/WS-13 series. As compare to its predecessor's (J-20) design J-31 looks like a stealth aircraft packed with limited electronics; capable to deliver specific kind of stealth role. Unlike J-20, Its smaller weapon bay means that it can perform limited operations in a mission.

 

[Domobran7]

Actually, Pakistan does have a few twin engine jets, the problem is that they're old. There is the added matter that Pakistan's military has never felt the need to have modern twin engine planes, as China offered to sell Pakistan it's J-11bs but Pakistan rejected the offer.

The F-60 looks like it'll be the first twin engine fighter that Pakistan will buy in a LONG LONG time. This is almost a guarantee to happen, as Pakistan has recently shown interest (or bought) Chinese twin engine trainers (hongdu L-15) from China. This is supposedly to go give Pakistani pilots training on how to operate twin engine planes.

...At least that's what the rumors say.

Twin engine jets are useful for carrier ops (corrosion issues) and large countries (Russia, China, India, Canada, Brasil) but I'd say that it is better to buy single engine fighters when possible, as they're cheaper, easier to maintain, and often more agile too.

 

[That Guy]

Twin engine jets are useful for carrier ops (corrosion issues) and large countries (Russia, China, India, Canada, Brasil) but I'd say that it is better to buy single engine fighters when possible, as they're cheaper, easier to maintain, and often more agile too.

Deep strike missions often require twin engine planes, so they have their uses, even for those nations that prefer single engine fighters.