F-60 / J-31 stealth fighter aircraft for Pakistan Air Force?

[monitor]

you are right should go for turkish fifth gen fighter project

Still in drawing board so better to invest in J-31 which already flying as proto typed .

 

[That Guy]

That's true, but the Turkish one is probably gonna be more advanced, as they can get US expertise to further their project.

Then again, there is always the chance that the J-31 will be built domestically in Pakistan in the long run, and could also result in a partial tech transfer, so that tiny chance alone could help Pakistan tremendously.

I like how India is doing it though, they're investing in the FGFA, and building their own, of course, they have the money to, so it's not really a problem for them.

 

[Luftwaffe]

That's true, but the Turkish one is probably gonna be more advanced, as they can get US expertise to further their project.

The reason Turkey is perusing JV or home grown 5th Gen with either Sweden/S. Korea is so not to be dependent on US when it comes to Engine and Avionics apart from A2A/A2G weapons.

J-31 is flying as a prototype and Turkish one is on paper by the time Turkish prototype flys who knows J-31 would be ready for upgrades so don't consider Turkish one to be advanced as it is on paper project so far.

India one is also on paper so far they are trying to make something out of LCA.

 

[That Guy]

The reason Turkey is perusing JV or home grown 5th Gen with either Sweden/S. Korea is so not to be dependent on US when it comes to Engine and Avionics apart from A2A/A2G weapons.

J-31 is flying as a prototype and Turkish one is on paper by the time Turkish prototype flys who knows J-31 would be ready for upgrades so don't consider Turkish one to be advanced as it is on paper project so far.

India one is also on paper so far they are trying to make something out of LCA.

That's true, but the fact that India even has the funds to at least start on the design and eventual development doesn't bode well for China or Pakistan.

The J-31 may end up being further along in it's life cycle by the time the Indian 5th gen comes into service, but it will still pose a major threat to China and Pakistan.

Either way, it's not a race, it's just a matter of who's got the most cash to throw around, which is what this is. Pakistan doesn't, India does, and that means more and more countries in the region are gonna start moving away from Pakistan to India.

 

[Luftwaffe]

means more and more countries in the region are gonna start moving away from Pakistan to India.

Move to hindustan for what? Nobody is buying anything from india that can't make a decent rifle without importing screws for it. Everyone is making their own or either buying from world class Lockheed and Boeing. HAL hands are full if you have read they can't even take Rafale development with 8-10 products in development already.

 

[rcrmj]

That's true, but the Turkish one is probably gonna be more advanced, as they can get US expertise to further their project.

Then again, there is always the chance that the J-31 will be built domestically in Pakistan in the long run, and could also result in a partial tech transfer, so that tiny chance alone could help Pakistan tremendously.

I like how India is doing it though, they're investing in the FGFA, and building their own, of course, they have the money to, so it's not really a problem for them.

turkish 5th gen plan is no more than a fairytale``it does not have much experiences of developing modern combat aircraft in fields of areodynamics, avionices, composite material techs, radars, airframe design, air-born weapons, fly-control system and system integration techs, it has almost next to zero experiences```

designing modern combat aircraft has nothing to do with gluing together different techs from others```it becomes even harder to design 5th gen

That's true, but the Turkish one is probably gonna be more advanced, as they can get US expertise to further their project.

Then again, there is always the chance that the J-31 will be built domestically in Pakistan in the long run, and could also result in a partial tech transfer, so that tiny chance alone could help Pakistan tremendously.

I like how India is doing it though, they're investing in the FGFA, and building their own, of course, they have the money to, so it's not really a problem for them.

prior to the induction of F-22 and F-35, American already had decades of dedicated R&D in stealth techs``so are China and Russia to their J-20,J-31 and T-50 respectively```

and do you think Turky which hasnt even developed a decend 4th gen jet fighter can have the luxury to develop a 5th gen fighter?

 

[rcrmj]

That's true, but the fact that India even has the funds to at least start on the design and eventual development doesn't bode well for China or Pakistan.

The J-31 may end up being further along in it's life cycle by the time the Indian 5th gen comes into service, but it will still pose a major threat to China and Pakistan.

Either way, it's not a race, it's just a matter of who's got the most cash to throw around, which is what this is. Pakistan doesn't, India does, and that means more and more countries in the region are gonna start moving away from Pakistan to India.

not in our life time

india is at the bottom of the weapon supply chain``more than 70% of weaponaries are imported and the bigger proportion of the remaining 30% are assemblies of imported parts``

their troublesome LCA, Arjun or any other 'domestic' projects tell very well about their true capability in high techs, researches, manufacturing and project management``

can you even find a world power even seeks for standard issue assault rifle from other countries?

 

[MastanKhan]

That's true, but the fact that India even has the funds to at least start on the design and eventual development doesn't bode well for China or Pakistan.

The J-31 may end up being further along in it's life cycle by the time the Indian 5th gen comes into service, but it will still pose a major threat to China and Pakistan.

Either way, it's not a race, it's just a matter of who's got the most cash to throw around, which is what this is. Pakistan doesn't, India does, and that means more and more countries in the region are gonna start moving away from Pakistan to India.

Hi,

It is not only cash that matters but the attitude as well----with the stinking attitude that paks have---no doubt the world would move away from it and paks being paks----we blame it on everything else but ourselves.

India's defence industrial complex is as pathetic and as corrupt as our own Zardari---. It is incompetent to the utmost degree----pakistan can bless their stars for that----.

With the problems cropping up with the 5th generation aircraft---you people won't see a full fledged 5th gen aircraft for awhile---.

It is better for a country like pakistan to stay with 4th and 4.5 gen aircraft and come up with better air to air missiles that can combat 5th gen aircraft---and better electronics.

Have a high quality aesa radar----and a superior version of pl12---it would cost lesser and it is something that is doable for pakistan / china.

A top notch 4.5 gen aircraft with the help of china would cost 50--60 million dollars as compared to a 150---200million for a 5th gen----then the PL 12 development would cost less than than the cost of one 5th gen aircraft----add to it your secondary air support and surveillance----pak wil come out ahead---.

Pak children must remember---after a certain threshold is crossed----it is not the size of the dog that matters---it is the fight in the dog that counts---.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Add to it country cross medium-High Altitude SAM Systems to defend Air Space heavily.

 

[Storm Force]

India's defence industrial complex is as pathetic and as corrupt as our own Zardari---. It is incompetent to the utmost degree----pakistan can bless their stars for that----.



Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...raft-pakistan-air-force-14.html#ixzz2Pmb5rhfu

ABSOLUTELY NO COMPARISON not even close

India,s military complex is FAR MORE TRANSPARENT , real chain of command and OVERALL civillian involvement . HUGE DIFFERENCE in size, financiakl budgts and current/future GROWTH trajectory is STEEP thanks open access to the world TOP military technology ie france USA israel & RUSSIA.

PAKISTAN is a military dictatoship FRACTION OF THE BUDGET no and virtual no options of TOP technology SHARE or growth OTHER THAN china OR north koreans.

 

[Storm Force]

REGARDING this thread.

DOES ANYBODY KNOW if this plane is ACTUALLY going to see MASS production a decade from TODAY and even then WILL CHINA EXPORT THIS.

just LOOK at J10 entered service 2005 over 200 in service... YET NOT A SINGLE EXPORT ORDER.

CHINEASE ARE SELLING their downgraded budget technology stil to those that WANT THIS.

FOR ALL WE KNOW j31/j20 MAY NOT EVEN BE AVIALABLE for export. TO ANYONE

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

Hi,

It is not only cash that matters but the attitude as well----with the stinking attitude that paks have---no doubt the world would move away from it and paks being paks----we blame it on everything else but ourselves.

India's defence industrial complex is as pathetic and as corrupt as our own Zardari---. It is incompetent to the utmost degree----pakistan can bless their stars for that----.

With the problems cropping up with the 5th generation aircraft---you people won't see a full fledged 5th gen aircraft for awhile---.

It is better for a country like pakistan to stay with 4th and 4.5 gen aircraft and come up with better air to air missiles that can combat 5th gen aircraft---and better electronics.

Have a high quality aesa radar----and a superior version of pl12---it would cost lesser and it is something that is doable for pakistan / china.

A top notch 4.5 gen aircraft with the help of china would cost 50--60 million dollars as compared to a 150---200million for a 5th gen----then the PL 12 development would cost less than than the cost of one 5th gen aircraft----add to it your secondary air support and surveillance----pak wil come out ahead---.

Pak children must remember---after a certain threshold is crossed----it is not the size of the dog that matters---it is the fight in the dog that counts---.

Totally agreed. First of all Pakistan should come out of this reactive / knee jerk response vis-a-vis India. Stealth is not a miracle because in 1 or 2 years from now, Radars advancements will render stealth almost secondary importance. Pakistan considering its economy size needs to invest more in SAMs, Networking, Early warning and UAVs. J-10B or J-11 in 4+++ configuration should be the next goal for Pakistan. Chinese wouldn't export these planes unless their own engines will be developed. This may take another 4 years at minimum. Only after that PAF could even think of 5th Generation.

So in my very humble opinion, we should really concentrate firstly on our economy and getting our tax to GDP ratio to at least 15%. Then there will be lot of new avenues available for us in future.

 

[That Guy]

REGARDING this thread.

DOES ANYBODY KNOW if this plane is ACTUALLY going to see MASS production a decade from TODAY and even then WILL CHINA EXPORT THIS.

just LOOK at J10 entered service 2005 over 200 in service... YET NOT A SINGLE EXPORT ORDER.

CHINEASE ARE SELLING their downgraded budget technology stil to those that WANT THIS.

FOR ALL WE KNOW j31/j20 MAY NOT EVEN BE AVIALABLE for export. TO ANYONE

The J-10 wasn't an export air-craft, and it was with great amount of concessions that the Chinese are even selling it to Pakistan.

The J-31 is up for export, as the Chinese have already said that it is. They're also looking to induct it into their naval-air arm and are looking to induct it by 2016-19.

The J-20 is expected to go into full production sometime during 2017.

ABSOLUTELY NO COMPARISON not even close

India,s military complex is FAR MORE TRANSPARENT , real chain of command and OVERALL civillian involvement . HUGE DIFFERENCE in size, financiakl budgts and current/future GROWTH trajectory is STEEP thanks open access to the world TOP military technology ie france USA israel & RUSSIA.

PAKISTAN is a military dictatoship FRACTION OF THE BUDGET no and virtual no options of TOP technology SHARE or growth OTHER THAN china OR north koreans.

I do agree that India's MIC is far more transparent than Pakistan's, but I think you're living a few years behind. Pakistan is by no means a military dictatorship any longer, and with the way things are going, under the benevolent leadership of Gen. Kayani the military is finally looking to come under complete civilian control.

So what if Pakistan is getting it's tech from China and North Korea, the last I heard, India was getting theirs from Russia.

In the end, it doesn't matter who has the bigger or more technologically advanced gun, it's all a matter of who can shoot it, instead of just waving it around. Remember, even if this is the 21st century, a "sword" and a "bow and arrow" can still kill you.

turkish 5th gen plan is no more than a fairytale``it does not have much experiences of developing modern combat aircraft in fields of areodynamics, avionices, composite material techs, radars, airframe design, air-born weapons, fly-control system and system integration techs, it has almost next to zero experiences```

designing modern combat aircraft has nothing to do with gluing together different techs from others```it becomes even harder to design 5th gen



prior to the induction of F-22 and F-35, American already had decades of dedicated R&D in stealth techs``so are China and Russia to their J-20,J-31 and T-50 respectively```

and do you think Turky which hasnt even developed a decend 4th gen jet fighter can have the luxury to develop a 5th gen fighter?

You seem to have this weird idea that the Turks are gonna make it on their own, of course not, that's just ridicules. They're probably gonna get outside help, and considering that they have the money for it, I don't doubt that they can throw enough money at the problems they encounter to make those problems go away. As did the US, China and Russia.

 

[Genesis]

I always suspected that the J-10 isn't exported, I think I read it as well, is because there are no qualified Chinese Engines yet. How do you mass produce something that's missing the key part? Selling with an Russian engine would be a disgrace for one, and not cost effective for another.

I think J-10s will be sold by the time J-20s are about to be inducted, and J-31s are definitely going to be sold to countries.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Why does china need to export J10----common sense says that there is no reason to----the chinese air force has such huge order to fill for itself---they really don't need to.

Out of all its allies----pakistan is the only one that really needs a 4.5 gen aircraft---all other friends of china really don't need it---it is available to pakistan----which it will get in due time.

The jf 17 is truthfully the need for an air force like pakistan---with an aesa radar and PL12---. This aircraft is not for the need of chinese air force right away----chinese air force needs aircraft like the J11 and J10's in large numbers---. They need to fill a massive gap of good quality high tech air superiority air dominance fighter aircraft---.

Once they have done that---then they can take up the cause of JF17 with an aesa and an advanced version of PL12 for their air force to fill up the numbers---.

As for the indian colleagues----suddenly they are celebrating the cause of 'temporary blindness'----. Thy are the ones who gave a new life to the rafael---the air craft which was about to meet its natural death after living in obscurity for the longest term----.