F-35’s can knock down whole PAF & IAF: Pervez Hoodboy

[Riz]

Never under estimate enemies... Hood bhai is right.. We need something to counter it... Abotabad rade is still in our minds.. And we must remember that day

 

[war&peace]

Fifth generation aircraft — such as the F-35 stealth fighter — have tilted an already tilted playing field much further. In Atlantic war exercises these fighters have been repeatedly tested against the kind of third- and fourth-generation fighters like those currently in the Pakistani and Indian air fleets. While kill ratios are secret, they are sometimes leaked. Assuming the leaks are correct, in some hypothetical war just two squadrons of American F-35s could knock down the combined might of the PAF and IAF fleets fighting together for the loss of just one F-35 — or perhaps none.


https://www.dawn.com/news/1475818

What is he smoking these days ?

He smokes a dried turd.. but not from a cow, rather some gora saab.

We believe in what Uncle SAM said. They are decades ahead than us.
Anything is possible.

Spoke like a true worshipper..

 

[xyxmt]

Fifth generation aircraft — such as the F-35 stealth fighter — have tilted an already tilted playing field much further. In Atlantic war exercises these fighters have been repeatedly tested against the kind of third- and fourth-generation fighters like those currently in the Pakistani and Indian air fleets. While kill ratios are secret, they are sometimes leaked. Assuming the leaks are correct, in some hypothetical war just two squadrons of American F-35s could knock down the combined might of the PAF and IAF fleets fighting together for the loss of just one F-35 — or perhaps none.


https://www.dawn.com/news/1475818

What is he smoking these days ?

he is always smoking something

 

[LeGenD]

Iraqi Air Force wasn’t modern enough to go against USAF and Iraq was sanction before the invasion.

Iraq was (very) well-equipped for conventional warfare back in 1991, but US was packing numerous surprises of its own which became apparent during the course of war; Vietnam was a fantastic teacher.

Imagine yourself as a 'distant observer' with limited knowledge of latest developments up to 1991... Pakistan's then COAS Mirza Aslam Beg was betting on Iraq as well [before the war started]. Go figure.

Couple of MiG 21 against F-15s/16s/18s.

Source: Air Force Magazine (1996)

MiG-25, MiG-29 and Mirage F1 were much like Su-3x variants and Rafale of modern times.

What I know that Iraqi knew about F-117 flying above them but their sams couldn’t lock onto it since it’s stealt and their anti aircraft machine guns couldn’t reach the aircraft above their sky. So their air defenses and command and controls were taken out before rest of forces entered Iraq during Gulf war. I’ve seen an interview of a pilot who flew F-117 during gulf war and he described it just like I said it their guns at that time couldn’t reach the aircraft. There are even footage available from gulf war Iraqis tryna bring down F-117 Sadam mismanaged the war by not deploying MiG 21 against it when they were detected over the skies.

Iraqi defenses were obviously ALERT and expecting an attack from US-led forces at any point in time [after] the buildup around its borders, and the deadline issued to Iraq for withdrawal from Kuwait had expired. However, F-117 aircraft and Tomahawk cruise missiles took them by surprise - they had virtually no experience and exposure to these platforms up to this point in time. Anybody who believe that Iraqi defenses were able to track movements of these airborne assets in real-time, is LYING. With nothing significant turning up on radar screens, Iraqi defenses had no choice but to spray their airspace with AA fire in all directions in the hopes of knocking down potential intruders - but this didn't work.

Footage of an F-117 disabling potential targets in the Al Taqqadum airbase near Fallujah during the initial days of the Gulf War in 1991:

Do you think a conventional aircraft could pull this off in its place at that point in time?

Lot of juicy information in this link: https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/how-stealth-was-baptized-by-fire-in-desert-storm-25-yea-1753796745

"At 2:51 a.m. on the morning of January 17, 1991, Major Greg Feest dropped the first bomb of Operation Desert Storm as part of the first ten aircraft to raid key strategic sites around Baghdad. Two more waves of F-117s would follow on the 17th.

Even though estimates for combat losses were as high as five percent, all the jets returned after their sorties that first night. Stealth had passed with flying colors.

The F-117 was one of only three weapons that were cleared to strike targets in downtown Baghdad, the other two being a limited number of classified AGM-86C cruise missiles launched from B-52s under operation Secret Squirrel, and throngs of BGM-109 Tomahawk cruise missiles launched from Navy ships. For just representing two and a half percent of the fixed wing combat force, the F-117s attacked 31 percent of the targets on the opening night of Desert Storm."

Now it’s a whole different story when it comes to Pakistan. If Iraqis were shooting at it back than, what makes you think we won’t scramble our Air Force once we detect it. So let’s not live in a fools paradise.

Bro, I live in a cave or something?

FYI: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistani-icbm.599177/page-12#post-11365664

Years-worth of information compiled for all members in a single post. You can thank me later.

The only advantage stealths aircrafts have is obviously stealth and large radar

VLO (Very Low Observable) design philosophy CHANGES EVERYTHING in relation to war-fighting - EVERYTHING.

To give you some perspective:-

The aforementioned diagrams showcase the sheer effectiveness of VLO design (very low RCS values) in isolation.

Now, VLO is just a part of the equation; F-35 is a cutting-edge war-fighting machine on the whole.

Respective detection range of each sensor system is NOT TO SCALE.

Now, F-35 offers FUSED VIEW of the battlefield to its pilot; information provided by every onboard sensor system is COMBINED and PROCESSED by the F-35's mission computer simultaneously for its pilot in one-go, and updates are non-stop/fluid.

Watch this video:

F-35's passive sensor network (EOTS + DAS + RWR) is so advanced that it is providing a VISUAL PICTURE of those rockets being launched into space, and tracking their motion in real-time along the way. And F-35's AESA radar system was providing WEAPON LOCK TRACKS on each rocket all along - cutting-edge SENSOR FUSION capabilities.

The pilot just needs to press the button and watch potential targets going up in flames.

SEE FIRST ; SHOOT FIRST ; KILL FIRST

but even if a stealth aircraft launches a missile it’s making its presence

Very low infrared event - no aircraft will be able to pick on this development from substantial distances. And when that AMRAAM will close-in for the kill, the aircraft on the receiving end will provide a MISSILE LOCK WARNING to the pilot, but it might be too late by then. Consider the latest AIM-120D for instance, its seeker will be 'active' for only <6 seconds prior to impact. This is extremely short 'reaction time' for the target aircraft, and even its DRFM jammer, to do something about it.

and as I said before BVRs are easier to dodge by aircrafts such as F-16s/Rafael.

Sweeping generalization, bro. AMRAAMs are much more maneuverable than any aircraft out there.

If a right pilot gets near a stealth fighter it can be take out and that’s my argument here based on what’s available by statistics from past. F-35 still have to prove itself while F-15/16 are proven and still in service. I still stand by my point that stealth is overrated excluding the F-22 because that’s one hell of a machine.

If being the KEY WORD, and this is 'assuming' that an F-35 did not took YOU OUT FIRST*.

*YOU cannot surprise F-35 in WVR situations from any angle.

"DAS accomplishes its unique task via a constellation of electro-optical cameras installed around the F-35, each staring in a separate direction. Then, a powerful computer processor "stitches" these video images together to create a continuous viewable video "sphere." When the DAS imagery is paired with an advanced helmet mounted display that is slaved to a spatial tracking system, the person wearing that helmet can look around and virtually "see" the environment around them relayed from the camera network, even in total darkness and, in some cases in otherwise blinding environmental conditions.

Because the DAS cameras are mounted around the outside of the vehicle, and the user is seated inside the vehicle while wearing a helmet mounted display with DAS's imagery being projected inside of it, the user can virtually "see through" the vehicle's structure as if it were never there in the first place. So if a F-35 pilot was flying at night, and his wingman disappeared below him, he could look down and see his wingman right through the floor of his jet.

Distributed Aperture technology does not only provide synthetic vision. When paired with high-speed computers loaded with the latest in image recognition and object tracking software, the system can provide missile launch detection and tracking, ground target tracking and recognition, infra-red search and track functions, and even ballistic missile tracking capabilities. When tied to high-end software and advanced computing hardware, the DAS system is very smart and very sensitive, and will only become more so as time goes on.

In the realm of air combat, a pilot flying an aircraft with DAS installed should almost always know where the enemy and friendlies are during a dogfight. The system really works as a smart optical search and tracker at longer ranges, notifying the pilot of interesting things it sees, both in the air and on the ground, and as a virtual "back-seater" born with x-ray vision during close-range combat."

FYI: https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-f-35-s-x-ray-vision-is-the-future-of-naval-and-all-1636711504

The sheer ignorance in regards to extraordinary war-fighting capabilities of F-35 continues to baffle me. Now that experts are pointing out the obvious, people are reacting in sheer ignorance.

The highlighted part in your statement is self-contradictory. Nevertheless, F-22A Raptor is the only bird in existence which can do something about F-35 in aerial combat.

Nothing changed since 2015

Recommended: https://www.f35.com/about/history

Check out this link.

https://taskandpurpose.com/navy-f35-mission-capable-rate

F-35B = IOC = July 31, 2015

F-35A = IOC = August 02, 2016

F-35C = IOC = February 28, 2019

We are looking at THREE distinct variants of F-35 with distinct R&D schedules.

Even in the WEST, some people critic everything these days because they have nothing better to do.

Please don't quote that BS.

 

[Syed1.]

No plane is invincible.


Remember a supposedly "radar invisible" F-117 was shot down by a group of rag tag Serbian rebels.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

Fifth generation aircraft — such as the F-35 stealth fighter — have tilted an already tilted playing field much further. In Atlantic war exercises these fighters have been repeatedly tested against the kind of third- and fourth-generation fighters like those currently in the Pakistani and Indian air fleets. While kill ratios are secret, they are sometimes leaked. Assuming the leaks are correct, in some hypothetical war just two squadrons of American F-35s could knock down the combined might of the PAF and IAF fleets fighting together for the loss of just one F-35 — or perhaps none.


https://www.dawn.com/news/1475818

What is he smoking these days ?

depends on the scenario and direction of attack by that squardon on india and pakistani airforces.

combined fighter jet strength of India and Pakistan is above 1500 Fighter jets, an F-35 even if invisible from all available radars (Allegedly) still can be tracked when it comes as close as 20 Km . it would all depend on if indian and pakistani fighter jets can close in on 20km rage of F-35.

it is very possible indeed, as those F-35 in 2 squardrons will down every aircraft in our combined inventory of two nations. but that's where Indian and Pakistani AESA radars come in , it would be a blood bath indeed .

no one can dispute this. F-35 is a very dangerous aircraft hence the preemtive measures used by Pakistan Air Force and chinese air force. i have no idea how indians will counter the stealth aircraft like f-35 or J-20 but pakistan, Israel, Russia , CHina , Turkey and to some extent South koreans have had success in detecting stealth aircraft like F-35 atleast 60km away. for china the distance is much greater and kept secret .


if it were a dog fight F-35 would have no chance even equal number of pakistani F-16 or indian Su-30's but its BVR and that's where F-35 Wins even from fighters in 10x numbers

 

[Syed1.]

depends on the scenario and direction of attack by that squardon on india and pakistani airforces.

combined fighter jet strength of India and Pakistan is above 1500 Fighter jets, an F-35 even if invisible from all available radars (Allegedly) still can be tracked when it comes as close as 20 Km . it would all depend on if indian and pakistani fighter jets can close in on 20km rage of F-35.

it is very possible indeed, as those F-35 in 2 squardrons will down every aircraft in our combined inventory of two nations. but that's where Indian and Pakistani AESA radars come in , it would be a blood bath indeed .

no one can dispute this. F-35 is a very dangerous aircraft hence the preemtive measures used by Pakistan Air Force and chinese air force. i have no idea how indians will counter the stealth aircraft like f-35 or J-20 but pakistan, Israel, Russia , CHina , Turkey and to some extent South koreans have had success in detecting stealth aircraft like F-35 atleast 60km away. for china the distance is much greater and kept secret .


if it were a dog fight F-35 would have no chance even equal number of pakistani F-16 or indian Su-30's but its BVR and that's where F-35 Wins even from fighters in 10x numbers

Bhai F-35 can carry 4 internal AAM missiles and 2 external (keep in mind if it carriers externally its radar cross-section increases exponentially). So imagine if F-35 is in air-to-air combat and manages to achieve 100% kill rate in BVR fight, that will mean 6 downed PAF or IAF jets. Then after that the fat hippo is a sitting duck and even a K-8 trainer would take it down let alone the entire airforce of Pak or India.

 

[JohnyD]

well, grouping is not done logically, to make sense both need to have a common enemy country who posses an F-35... our common enemies are poverty and corruption which are more lethal than F-35 or F-22

 

[LeGenD]

combined fighter jet strength of India and Pakistan is above 1500 Fighter jets,

True, but what percentage of this inventory can be made airborne in a short pan, and are these all fixed-wing combat aircraft? This is an important consideration.

On a good day with lot of preparation, I would expect up to 60% of inventory to be made airborne in a short span. However, I have my doubts about the preparation level of IAF. So let us assume around 50% in combined form = 700 - 750 aircraft in total with varying capabilities [1].

an F-35 even if invisible from all available radars (Allegedly) still can be tracked when it comes as close as 20 Km . it would all depend on if indian and pakistani fighter jets can close in on 20km rage of F-35.

They will be destroying OUR assets from much further unfortunately.

it is very possible indeed, as those F-35 in 2 squardrons will down every aircraft in our combined inventory of two nations. but that's where Indian and Pakistani AESA radars come in , it would be a blood bath indeed .

Let me do the math first.

F-35 each = 4 missiles (internal payload)
Squadron of F-35 = ~24 aircraft
Two squadrons of F-35 = ~ 48 aircraft

48 x 4 = 192 missiles in total (internal payload)

Now, let us assume that these missiles are all AIM-120D - very high probability of kill.

So, these two squadrons can theoretically take out ~180 aircraft at BVR ranges - SAFELY.

For the remainder, F-35 would need to rely upon their guns which is not safe and losses are likely in this situation. Therefore, TWO SQUADRONS of F-35 are not sufficient to wipe out PAF and IAF put together in VLO configurations.

But we can also consider F-35 in BEAST configurations.

In this situation, RCS values of F-35 might fall within 0.1 - 1.0 m^2 range (on the level of EA-18G Growler), and can be detected earlier accordingly - trade-offs between VLO and firepower.

F-35 each = 12 missiles (internal + external payload)
Squadron of F-35 = ~24 aircraft
Two squadrons of F-35 = ~ 48 aircraft

48 x 12 = 576 missiles in total (internal + external payload)

In this situation, these two squadrons can take out 500+ aircraft at varying ranges - SAFELY (TRON warfare capabilities online at squadron levels), but potential losses might alter this calculation, and required numbers are still less (see [1]). Therefore, THREE squadrons are needed to get the job done. However, FOUR squadrons should be committed for the job at minimum, because WVR combat situations are likely in these clashes due to sheer speed levels of jets.

IN REALITY:-

USAF + USMC + USN = 236 + 103 + 52 = 391 F-35 variants in total

Even if 50% of these are READY FOR COMBAT at any point in time, well, you can do the math.

no one can dispute this. F-35 is a very dangerous aircraft hence the preemtive measures used by Pakistan Air Force and chinese air force. i have no idea how indians will counter the stealth aircraft like f-35 or J-20 but pakistan, Israel, Russia , CHina , Turkey and to some extent South koreans have had success in detecting stealth aircraft like F-35 atleast 60km away. for china the distance is much greater and kept secret .

With airborne AWACS in the picture? ~60 KM detection range is possible - and this is close to maximum for China as well.

if it were a dog fight F-35 would have no chance even equal number of pakistani F-16 or indian Su-30's but its BVR and that's where F-35 Wins even from fighters in 10x numbers

Refer to post # 111 above. F-35 is superior to these birds in WVR combat situations as well. They didn't cook a half-baked product, my friend.

 

[k s ahmed]

Why are you even reading dawn. They are funded to create inferiority complex among us
If war was.won with weapons and ammunition , Muslims would have been wiped out in yermok or qadisiyah
Western funded " elite " is the main problem in our country

 

[YeBeWarned]

I think Hoodbhoy emotional or Jazbaati ho gae
but LeGend has it, that no power on earth can down a F-35 , even with Thanos infinity Gauntlet you cant do anything to F-35 , also LeGend has it that Asgard also use this Technology to defeat the other realms when they revolt against them . F-35 is made of same Material used in building the Storm breaker, every F-35 has been created under a dying neutron star build by a Giant Dwarf .
There is so much LeGend attached to F-35's you just can't defeat it man, surrender and drink Poison as soon as you see a F-35 flying towards you .

someone should show this Video to our Hoodbhoy ..

 

[LeGenD]

Why are you even reading dawn. They are funded to create inferiority complex among us
If war was.won with weapons and ammunition , Muslims would have been wiped out in yermok or qadisiyah
Western funded " elite " is the main problem in our country

Byzantine Empire was in no position to fight organized Muslim armies due to years of warfare with Persians earlier ans resultant losses.

Although they committed a large force (40,000+ troops) to counter Muslim force (25,000+ troops) for the battle of Yarmouk, Byzantines were relatively lacking in zeal, cohesion and strategy (multi-ethnic tensions within). Khalid-bin-Waleed was a brilliant tactician in our camp, and he turned the tide on the 6th day of the battle by combining all cavalry groups into a unified force and unloading it on the Byzantine formations from the rear, routing them consequently. Byzantines did not anticipate this move, and fled.

Even though we believe in Allah Almighty, and seek his blessings in our ways of life, we cannot afford to be illogical and ignorant.

 

[k s ahmed]

Byzantine Empirevwas in no position to fight organized Muslim armies due to years of warfare with Persians earlier.

Although they committed a large force (40 000+ troops) to counter Muslim force (20,000+ troops) for the battle of Yarmouk, Byzantines were relatively lacking in cohesion and strategy. Khalid-bin-Waleed was a brilliant tactician, and he turned the tide on the 6th day of clash.

Even though we believe in Allah Almighty, and seek his blessings in our ways of life, we cannot be afford to be illogical and ignorant.

First half of your post is European narrative and rest is correct Europeans just never admit that they lost against Muslims. They never give credit to Muslims for anything. Absolute bollocks is what they write .
They were huge huge huge force . Attacking .Enemy on its own soil is not a joke .you need at least 5 times more army to initiate such attack .
And romands and Persians were well equipped and romans werea naturallywarriors . They were not easy to defeat. Europeans make it look like that they gave it to Muslims like a hot cake. Very easy. DONT LISTEN TO them.

There has always been a gap in various asoects between us and them. However , ALLAH has promised us thar we will be victorious if we are momin and even if t he ratio is 1 is to 10 between us and enemy

I agree that we need to make progress and look around. BUT we don't need doubt ourselves or get scared by something .
We have always compensated for that gap by our passion to fight and transit to the world which is eternal .
I hope you get my point

 

[SipahSalar]

Very misinformed article. He says just 2 squadrons of F-35's can destroy entire PAF and IAF combined. Research is contrary to that. 24 F-35s cant even carry enough missiles to destroy 1/4th of just PAF.

 

[khanmubashir]

Either aircraft, the US supplied F-16 or the Chinese origin JF-17, was equally capable of downing the Soviet era Mig-21 Bison piloted by Wing Commander Abhinandan Varathaman. The French supplied Mirage-V, of which Pakistan has plenty, could have done this too. These days the air platform matters relatively little; in the Bison case one set of avionics and air-to-air missiles had clearly worked as intended. Hence Pakistan ended with a 1-0 kill in its favour, albeit one that India denies.

Was pilot skill important? In this electronic age this is secondary but might still have mattered. Having flown more sorties than Indians,
..........
From artuart