F-35? We Want The LCA Navy: Indian Navy Chief

[sancho]

Why don't we go for F-35 atleast for may be 8 to 10 of them, may be for IAC-1 i think keeping just LCAs in that AC isn't worth since they're light weight, we need to station some F-35 to give an blow to the enemy fighters and ships in IOR....well it's my personal Msg, correct me if i'm wrong

N-LCA will mainly be developed for industrial reasons, not because of capability reasons. The navy wants the industry to learn about developing a naval fighter, which is good, the bad thing is only, that they waste too much money on it, since a smaller tech demo program would be enough.
F35 B is not a suitable option for us, it is the least capable version and lands vertically, but IN developed and procured their carriers extra with arrested landing capability, so all that would be a waste too. The F35C with CATOBAR carriers might be interesting now, since PLAN might have their own stealth fighter too and the only short/mid term solution for IN is F35C. In the long term a naval AMCA is a must have, the problem is, that they again wants to develop a fighter for IAF and navalise it later only, but that limits it's capabilities as a carrier fighter and is not a good choice.
The biggest problem with US fighters is, that we can't customize them, that they have many operational restrictions and that our industry have no advantages at all.

 

[UKBengali]

Could have many reasons, but maybe it's also a problem that we simply have too less options in the aero field. Apart from HAL we just have NAL and they are too small as of now, TATA and Mahindra are developing capabilities now and bad management between the government industries and the forces surely is a problem too.

With all due respect India does not make complete naval systems, only the hulls and some subsystems like sonar in it's surface ships.

In the Kolkata class destroyers, the propulsion, radar and missiles are all foreign.

I am not trying to have a go here but that is the truth.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Aren't they looking into the naval variant of the Rafale (yes, there really is one)?

What about the naval variant of the FGFA?

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

Aren't they looking into the naval variant of the Rafale (yes, there really is one)?

What about the naval variant of the FGFA?

They are professionals and so must be considering all available options, It is just that not everything is disclosed to the media.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

With all due respect India does not make complete naval systems, only the hulls and some subsystems like sonar in it's surface ships.

In the Kolkata class destroyers, the propulsion, radar and missiles are all foreign.

I am not trying to have a go here but that is the truth.

So what?? Many nations rely on foreign or foreign designed copies in their machines.

It will take time. Barak 8 is a JV, Brahmos is a JV, and Nirbhay is Indian. It's a slow process.

A 3rd world nation's defense industry cannot do this in like 10 years.

 

[gslv]

i think govt should make it mandatory than whatever forces induct,10-15% of them should constitute weapon and aviation system from india. there should be no bargain on that. i know this will be logistically difficult, but then if things go as they are now we will waiting infinitely for a fully or 80-90% indigenous armed force.come on ppl why cant they develop aesa radar on ship and other awac planes.

 

[INDIAISM]

I doubt IN will go for F-35 due to restriction...and even if they will go for F-35 they won't be able to get their hands on this jet before 2030-35 as F-35 has a huge order book....So the best option for IN will be either N-AMCA or N-PAKFA.....

 

[UKBengali]

So what?? Many nations rely on foreign or foreign designed copies in their machines.

It will take time. Barak 8 is a JV, Brahmos is a JV, and Nirbhay is Indian. It's a slow process.

A 3rd world nation's defense industry cannot do this in like 10 years.

What is the matter dude?

I was responding to someone who actually thought that India was ahead in Naval systems as opposed to Aerospace.

Let us make a comparison:

Kolkata class destroyer:

Hull - Indian
Engine - Foreign
Radar - Foreign

LCA:

Airframe - Indian
Radar - Outside assistance required
Engine - Foreign in first batch and looking for joint venture later on

To me that looks like India is not at all ahead in Naval Engineering as opposed to Aerospace Engineering.

Only reason that I even made I comment is fort some reason, some Indians seem to think that they are ahead in one area as compared to the other.

If I have my facts wrong please correct, otherwise keep quiet. Thanks.

 

[DroneAcharya]

With all due respect India does not make complete naval systems, only the hulls and some subsystems like sonar in it's surface ships.

In the Kolkata class destroyers, the propulsion, radar and missiles are all foreign.

I am not trying to have a go here but that is the truth.

For one thing, IN is trying to move towards self-sufficiency in propulsion systems and frankly, moving to systems like Electric propulsion is highly expensive. Elecon (a Mumbai based company btw) has already done it for Shivalik by building the CODOG, but the learning curve for building Electric propulsion systems is steep.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Kolkata class destroyer:

Hull - Indian
Engine - Foreign
Radar - Foreign

LCA:

Airframe - Indian
Radar - Outside assistance required
Engine - Foreign in first batch and looking for joint venture later on

They're both pretty much at the same level. Except LCA is taking forever and the naval developments are taking long, but not as long as LCA.


You should maybe use Arihant as example, not Kolkata.

If Arihant is used as an example. I believe the navy is a head.


The weapons(K-15, K-4), design/hull, nuclear reactor, etc. are made in India.

Not to mention they're making a aircraft carrier.

The navy is willing to use a lot of home made stuff.

 

[INDIAISM]

With all due respect India does not make complete naval systems, only the hulls and some subsystems like sonar in it's surface ships.

In the Kolkata class destroyers, the propulsion, radar and missiles are all foreign.

I am not trying to have a go here but that is the truth.

Actualy FYI India is taking step by step approch in this sector....Their was a time when we used to import AB grade steel from russia but now our SAIL is manufacturing it....

Secondly,INS Kolkata has Brahmos and Barak 8 missiles and India own 50% Stake in these two missile project....


Project 15B destroyers will have Nirbhay missile and most probably Indegenous AESA radar ....

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

What is the matter dude?

I was responding to someone who actually thought that India was ahead in Naval systems as opposed to Aerospace.

Let us make a comparison:

Kolkata class destroyer:

Hull - Indian
Engine - Foreign
Radar - Foreign

LCA:

Airframe - Indian
Radar - Outside assistance required
Engine - Foreign in first batch and looking for joint venture later on

To me that looks like India is not at all ahead in Naval Engineering as opposed to Aerospace Engineering.

Only reason that I even made I comment is fort some reason, some Indians seem to think that they are ahead in one area as compared to the other.

If I have my facts wrong please correct, otherwise keep quiet. Thanks.

Your facts are worng. Naval engineering in India is totally at a different level when compared with aerospace engineering. In NE, we are building Aircraft carriers where as in AE we are at the first stage of building a light weight fighter.

IN designs most of its different weight class ships like destroyers,frigates etc and manufactures them in indian shipyards. they already own stealth ships are now at second generation stealth naval vessels design stage. Apart from propulsion, most of the ship systems like Radars, combat management, sonars, decoys are indigenous. IN also uses foreign radars apart from indian ones like BEL RAWS-03 air/surface search radar, RAWL-02 (PLN 517) D-band air search radar, Decca Bridgemaster or BEL Rashmi (PIN 524) I-band navigation radar, based on the ship weight class. Missiles now mostly come form JVs.

On the other hand, in aerospace engineering, we have just mastered the light category and started work on medium category fighter and stealth features. We are still working on indigenous fighter radar ( Naval system already have them in our firgates).

 

[UKBengali]

Your facts are worng. Naval engineering in India is totally at a different level when compared with aerospace engineering. In NE, we are building Aircraft carriers where as in AE we are at the first stage of building a light weight fighter.

IN designs most of its different weight class ships like destroyers,frigates etc and manufactures them in indian shipyards. they already own stealth ships are now at second generation stealth naval vessels design stage. Apart from propulsion, most of the ship systems like Radars, combat management, sonars, decoys are indigenous. IN also uses foreign radars apart from indian ones like BEL RAWS-03 air/surface search radar, RAWL-02 (PLN 517) D-band air search radar, Decca Bridgemaster or BEL Rashmi (PIN 524) I-band navigation radar, based on the ship weight class. Missiles now mostly come form JVs.

On the other hand, in aerospace engineering, we have just mastered the light category and started work on medium category fighter and stealth features. We are still working on indigenous fighter radar ( Naval system already have them in our firgates).

Even with your points, if you break down all that is indigenous in the LCA like airframe, FBW, decoys and other avionics systems then there is a good case to say that Indian Aerospace Engineering is on a par/nearly on a par with Indian Naval Engineering at this moment in time.

Naval Engineering may possibly be driven ahead of aerospace in future as I think aerospace is more complex anyway due to the fact that engines and radars are miniaturized on aircraft.

Good case in point is China - their new type-052D destroyer is totally indigenous and it would not surprise me if that can go toe-to-toe with the latest Arleigh Burke or British Type-045 destroyers. China's Naval Engineering is around a decade ahead of their Aerospace Engineering overall.

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

Even with your points, if you break down all that is indigenous in the LCA like airframe, FBW, decoys and other avionics systems then there is a good case to say that Indian Aerospace Engineering is on a par/nearly on a par with Indian Naval Engineering at this moment in time.

Naval Engineering may possibly be driven ahead of aerospace in future as I think aerospace is more complex anyway due to the fact that engines and radars are miniaturized on aircraft.

Good case in point is China - their new type-052D destroyer is totally indigenous and it would not surprise me if that can go toe-to-toe with the latest Arleigh Burke or British Type-045 destroyers. China's Naval Engineering is around a decade ahead of their Aerospace Engineering overall.

How IN designing all types and weight classes of a ship with stealth features and more indigenous content is in the same level of IAF that just have mastered light weight class machines like Tejas, LCH and Dhruv , and starting work on medium class machines like fighter with stealth features, not even talking about heavy class machines?

Cannot resist the perks of cheer leading? We all know what means indigenous in chinese, point in case J7, J11, J15, HQ9, HQ16 etc.

 

[BordoEnes]

I would chose LCA over the F35 anyday, The "To big to fail" concept of the aircraft already lost its meaning...