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F-22p News & Discussions

A question brothers? As we all know the new generation of Chinese warship frigates and destroyers in becoming more in line interms of desgn not tchnology with the newer generation of western surface combatants. Will the f22p be a stealthy design than the Jiangwei 2 it was based upon? And does the PN have any plans to acuire or build and actuall destroyers.

Thank You
 
A question brothers? As we all know the new generation of Chinese warship frigates and destroyers in becoming more in line interms of desgn not tchnology with the newer generation of western surface combatants. Will the f22p be a stealthy design than the Jiangwei 2 it was based upon? And does the PN have any plans to acuire or build and actuall destroyers.

Thank You
F-22P is based on Jiangwei II, but will probably take on defensive/patrol oriented roles - much like a corvette. Although the PN did decide on MILGEM, the batch of 4 will not come to fruition for about 10-years, hence in-term solutions are required. The PN may acquire 4 more F-22P - probably upgraded in terms of AAW & ASW - or the 3 ex-Brunei Nakhoda Class. IMO the F-22P will ultimately be replaced by the MILGEM series...from what I've been told by waz, plans include 10-12 corvettes.

Regarding FFG & DDG:

According to H Khan on PakDef; the PN does intend of inducting up to 14 new frigates over the next decade. For the first 8 the PN is considering Chinese Type-054 and German MEKO. The next 6 will be a new design developed with assistance from Turkey and Germany...and will be manufactured in Pakistan.

I suspect the first 8 could likely be MEKO, specifically MEKO A-200, for a few reasons:

1) The PN wants to strengthen its ties with Germany.

2) MEKO A-200 is a tried and tested design, and can be produced. If PN decides to put in an order, then it may push South Africa to acquire more A-200s of its own. The cost of this ship isn't ridiculously high - at least for a European frigate - and is a modular design.

3) A purchase of this nature from TKMS will help us in cooperation when developing the next 6 FFGs, if we to intend to use their expertise.
 
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The Type 051C (NATO codename: Luzhou class) is the air-defence missile destroyer built by Dalian Shipyard for the PLA Navy. The first-of-class, Shenyang (hull No.115), was launched in December 2004 and completed its system installation in late 2005. The sea trial began in early 2006 and the ship was finally commissioned in October 2006. A second hull Shijiazhuang (hull No.116) was launched in 2005 and commissioned in March 2007. Both hulls are deployed by the North Sea Fleet based at Qingdao.

The Type 051C is designed mainly to provide air defence for a fleet against air attack, but it also retains reasonable anti-surface and anti-submarine capabilities. The destroyer appears to be based on the same hull design as the Type 051B (NATO codename: Luhai class) introduced in the late 1990s, with an estimated displacement of 7,100 tonnes. The destroyer is believed to be powered by the steam turbine propulsion, indicating PRC’s continuing restraint on the gas turbine technology. The ship has a helicopter flight deck on the stern but does not have a hanger.

Like most PRC-built destroyers introduced after the 1990s, the Type 051C is only built in a small quantity to test the ship design and its weapon systems and sensors. No further construction has been reported since the completion of the first two hulls. Unconfirmed reports suggested that the PRC is developing a more advanced air defence destroyer Type 051D with enhanced capabilities.


The revolver VLS and the 3R41 Volna (Top Dome) fire-control radar on the stern deckhouse (Chinese Internet)

S-300F Rif Missile System

The most noticeable feature of the Type 051C is its Russian-built S-300F (also known as Rif, NATO reporting name: SA-N-6) air defence missile system. Each S-300F missile complex consists of six large-size revolver vertical launching systems (VLS), each housing eight ready-to-launch missiles. Two revolver VLS are installed underneath the bow deck behind the main gun, and four inside the aft deckhouse on the stern ahead of the helicopter flight deck, carrying a total of 48 missiles.

The 5V55RM missile uses the semi-active radar-homing (SARH), capable of engaging airborne targets at a range of 1.2~90km and an altitude between 25m and 30km. The missile is guided by the 3R41 Volna (NATO codename: Top Dome) phased-array target tracking radar (I/J-band, 100km range) installed on top of the stern deckhouse. The radar can direct 12 missiles to engage 6 targets simultaneously. Since two radars are required to give 360º coverage (as, for example, in the Russian Kirov class cruiser), this means that there is a blind gap in full SAM cover in the forward quadrant, resulting in a major tactical restriction.

As shown in its land-based equivalent S-300PMU, the S-300F missile was proven to be highly effective against airborne targets and was found on all Soviet/Russian cruisers built after 1980. The PRC ordered two sets of the S-300F/Rif system from Russia in 2002.

Anti-Ship Missiles

The ship's surface-to-surface fire-power is less impressive, comprising merely eight indigenous YJ-83 anti-ship missiles. The missile system has eight box launchers (in two groups, each with 4 launchers). The missile uses active radar homing and is powered by a turbojet (with a solid rocket booster). The anti-ship missile has a range of 120km and approaches the target in sea skimming mode at a speed of Mach 0.9. The 165kg shaped charge warhead has time delayed impact proximity fuses.


The Type 051C destroyer featuring a mixture of Chinese indigenous and Russian-made systems (Chinese Internet)

Guns

For short-range air defence, the Type 051C destroyer is fitted with two indigenous Type 730 seven-barrel close-in weapon system (CIWS) located in the mid-ship position on either side of the rear mast. The Type 730 system has a maximum rate of fire of 4,600~5,800 rounds/min and a maximum range of 3km.

The ship also has a single-barrel 100mm gun, which can be used against surface targets and air targets such as aircraft and low speed missile, with a maximum rate of fire of 90 rounds/min. The gun can be operated in fully automatic mode from the radar control system, from the shipborne optical sighting system, or laid manually. The turret design incorporates strong radar cross-section reduction features.

Anti-Submarine Warfare

The ship is fitted with two triple-324mm torpedo launchers, which is used to launch the Yu-7 (copy of the U.S. Mk46 Mod1) anti-submarine torpedo. The Yu-7 carries a 45kg to engage underwater target at a speed of 43kt, and has a maximum range of 7.3km.

Sensors

The air search radar is a Fregat-MAE-5 (NATO reporting name: Top Plate) 3D air search radar mounted at the top of the rear mast, offering two channels in E-band. The radar can track up to 40 targets simultaneously, and has a maximum range of 120km to aircraft and 50km to sea-skimming missile. There is also a large round radome mounted at the top of the rear mast, possibly housing a MR36 (Type 346?) surface search radar.


The stern view of the Type 051C destroyer (Chinese Internet)

A large round radome installed on top of the bridge houses the Mineral-ME (NATO reporting name: Band Stand) radar that provides anti-ship missile control and over-the-horizon radar acquisition and target designation of surface ships. There are two indigenous Type 347G I-band radars integrated with the Type 730 CIWS to provide fire-control.

Countermeasures

The Type 051C has two Type 946 15-barrelled chaff/decoy launchers, and two unknown multiple launchers installed at the mid-ship position. Active ECM system include the interceptor and jammer
 
As far i can understand PN intention is a high low weight class combination of chinese Frigates and destroyers.

Low

first 4 F-22P batch
Displacement: 2500

Medium

4 F-22P "later batch"
Displacement: 3000

Medium-heavy

4 Type-054
Displacement: 4,000

heavy

4 Type-054 "new version"
Displacement: 4,500

2-4 destroyers (Type-052C)

Although the PN did decide on MILGEM, the batch of 4 will not come to fruition for about 10-years, hence in-term solutions are required.

wow 10 years is a very long long time prediction! Milgem is expected to enter service in 2011 in TN so 2013-14 is quite a manageable timeframe for PN induction. i expect 4+4 Milgem in PN by the end of 2019.

the F-22P will ultimately be replaced by the MILGEM series.

In such short time frame? 10-20 years? it did not even enter in service and you are talking of replacement.
I suspect the first 8 could likely be MEKO, specifically MEKO A-200, for a few reasons:

1) The PN wants to strengthen its ties with Germany.

2) MEKO A-200 is a tried and tested design, and can be produced. If PN decides to put in an order, then it may push South Africa to acquire more A-200s of its own. The cost of this ship isn't ridiculously high - at least for a European frigate - and is a modular design.

MEKO A-200? PN is not even interested in German frigates as we know from IDEAS. i really like the French Fremm (6,000T) multi purpose frigate which btw is a next generation frigate unlike A-200 which will be almost 2 decade old by the time its inducted in PN (2016-2019). lol A-200 is like a fishing boat front of Fremm! (Fremm can also full fill PN destroyer role!)
If strengthening ties with germany was the case then i think tiger, mini subs, corvette could earn them big bugs from pakistan.
 
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My knowledge about our navy is very limited, but my question is why cant our frigates/submarines be fitted with cruise/ballistic/anti ship missiles(C602) or air defence missiles?
 
My knowledge about our navy is very limited, but my question is why cant our frigates/submarines be fitted with cruise/ballistic/anti ship missiles(C602) or air defence missiles?

yes indeed your naval knowledge is very limited.

our Augosta-90B subs are capable of firing sub-launch Harpoon, Exocet AShM and as far as i know, a new Cruise Missile like babur is being produced for PN Subs.
PN will soon strike a deal with HDW for U-214 which btw is capable of launching just about any thing from its torpedos tubes. even HUMANS "NSSG"! U-212-214 will be the only subs capable of engaging air threats such as low flying Maritime patrol aircrafts and helicopters the missile is called "IDAS".
 
notice 252 under construction
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