F-22 Frigate arrives in Karachi

[bbbhhh]

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[jehangirhaider]

F-22 frigate is fitted with C-802 SSM or YJ-83? , Because formal is with the 120 km range and later has 180km.On sinodefence.com it is written, that F-22 is fitted with YJ-83. Please someone clear this

 

[Myth_buster_1]

well your own post state two claims which contradict with one another.

And how exactly?

bro, F22p will be for what you call "so called deterance" while the OPH may never see themselvees in this role.

For your information... OHP will serve its role (ASW) much much effectively then F-22...

but yes if you say that there would have been better options then the F22p and you consider milgem as one of those, i totally agree with this point. however the problem might have been the time frame in which we would have got these vessels.

The F-22 deal was signed back in 2005 so after 4 years of contract we received first frigate. Like i have said earlier... their are alot of options and milgem being one of them... but considering the time frame which you brought up.... French la fayette class frigate is the perfect option and the best bang for the buck deal! but then we sacrifice quantity over quality! the Singaporeans, Taiwanese, Saudis have also modified their frigates significantly... but PN does not have to give these frigates a new make over..... all we have to do is improve the armament package.. like.... 16 VLS cells for Aster-15..... 3 x 2 torpedos..... 1 Phalanx....

IMO pakistan was more interested in "strengthening" ties with China and had nothing to do with significance of frigate.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

yes the milgem is a 2000 t class but what i was saying was that after F22p and possibly four milgem PN will be looking for some heavier vessels! in this case the british option does not fit in the picture. the only option will be to drop milgem and as far as i am concerned it wont be a wise one. the milgems are state of the art stealrhier ships and will come along with TOT and perhaps an option for some modifications to further satisfy PN need, these thing wont come along with british ships mentioned in the topic..
regards!

PN is more concerned with type of vessels like Missile boats, Corvettes, OPV, Frigates, destroyers rather then the tonnage of vessels.. As far as i know.. PN has never operated corvettes so now they want to full fill their requirement.... British OPV are not worth it... first they are tooooooo expensive.. cost over whopping 600 million pounds and we get just 3 vessels.. let it stay in british dock yards for another decade and hopefully as a last resort to make some money out of these OPV the brits might offer us a better pries like in the range of 100 million pounds..

 

[Arsalan]

PN is more concerned with type of vessels like Missile boats, Corvettes, OPV, Frigates, destroyers rather then the tonnage of vessels.. As far as i know.. PN has never operated corvettes so now they want to full fill their requirement.... British OPV are not worth it... first they are tooooooo expensive.. cost over whopping 600 million pounds and we get just 3 vessels.. let it stay in british dock yards for another decade and hopefully as a last resort to make some money out of these OPV the brits might offer us a better pries like in the range of 100 million pounds..

thats what i said,,
Milgem is a better option rather then the british ships so we may never see then with PN!!
as far as heavier vessels are concerned, how do not want bigger and better vessels. PN wont be reluctant to go for heavier frigates capable of beter allround duties and perhaps able to fire land attack missiles to give Pakistan a second strike force,

regards!

 

[TOPGUN]

Anynew news on the Milgem as of yet?

 

[Arsalan]

well if you are asking about news regarding PN going for Milgem, there is nothing as yet but just the intrest shown by some of navaies top brass and intent to go for them in future.
perhaps you know about an old thread discussing it,,
http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-forces/3938-pakistan-4-turkish-milgem-corvettes.html
so no official signing or even claims have surfaced so far.

regards!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Anynew news on the Milgem as of yet?

Turkey’s MİLGEM to build military ships for Pakistan

The MİLGEM project, carried out jointly by Turkey’s Undersecretariat for the Defense Industry (SSM) and the Turkish Naval Forces, is a landmark project that developed the country’s first corvette-class warship.

The STM defense company is working on the MİLGEM project. Speaking to Turkish journalists yesterday in Karachi, which is currently hosting the fifth International Defense Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS) 2008, Savaş Onur, a retired admiral who is currently the MİLGEM project manager, said the fair has been a very good opportunity for Turkish defense companies to promote their projects. “We also display MİLGEM here, which is one of the most important projects Turkey has produced in the past few years.”

Onur said the project was of a scale that would have a long-term impact on the Turkish shipbuilding and defense industries. “Pakistan needs more ships like this. We are planning to carry out a joint project with Pakistan for these corvettes.”

Onur said that more than 50 Turkish firms -- including the largest defense firms, Aselsan, Havelsan and STM -- have played a role in the MİLGEM project, gaining invaluable experience in warship building.

He said the three defense firms have merged forces to supply Pakistan’s demand for corvette ships. “This is a four ship corvette project. The first ship will be designed and built in Turkey, while the three others will be built in Pakistan’s military shipyards. This is really a comprehensive project. It is expected to last 10 years,” he said.

He noted that Turkey has had talks with Pakistan about this project for nearly two years. “We can say that we are reaching an agreement. I think we will realize the project successfully. The Turkish defense industry has the capacity to manage such projects.”

Turkey?s M?LGEM to build military ships for Pakistan
29 November 2008, Saturday
TODAY’S ZAMAN WITH WIRES İSTANBUL

 

[TOPGUN]

well if you are asking about news regarding PN going for Milgem, there is nothing as yet but just the intrest shown by some of navaies top brass and intent to go for them in future.
perhaps you know about an old thread discussing it,,
http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-forces/3938-pakistan-4-turkish-milgem-corvettes.html
so no official signing or even claims have surfaced so far.

regards!

Yes brother i know about the old thread i was just wondering if anything had progressed! but i do hope we go for them..

 

[Arsalan]

Yes brother i know about the old thread i was just wondering if anything had progressed! but i do hope we go for them..

well if that was the case, i am sorry but there are no news updates. even the report that Growler presented is quite an old one and there are no officials signings of the project done as yet!

regards!

 

[TOPGUN]

well if that was the case, i am sorry but there are no news updates. even the report that Growler presented is quite an old one and there are no officials signings of the project done as yet!

regards!

No worries brother thx for the effort as always!

 

[Penguin]

PN is more concerned with type of vessels like Missile boats, Corvettes, OPV, Frigates, destroyers rather then the tonnage of vessels.. As far as i know.. PN has never operated corvettes so now they want to full fill their requirement.... British OPV are not worth it... first they are tooooooo expensive.. cost over whopping 600 million pounds and we get just 3 vessels.. let it stay in british dock yards for another decade and hopefully as a last resort to make some money out of these OPV the brits might offer us a better pries like in the range of 100 million pounds..

The thing with the moneys involved in various options and deals is that you really have to look closely at what the deal includes. A 600 million pounds deal for 3 OPVs surely includes more than just the ships (600 million GBP = 960.840 million USD = 654.966 million EUR)

1. The F2000 ships (KDB Nakhoda Ragam, KDB Bendhara Sakam and KDB Jerambak) are not really OPVs, they are in fact very sophisticated corvettes.

2. The 600 million GBP amount is the value of the deal BAE Systems and Brunei signed in 1998. I'm sure, given the state of the Brunei navy at that time (the largest combat vessel were 3-ship Waspada class of 206 tons full load, with 2 MM38 Exocet, 30mm BMARC-Oerlikon GCM-B01 AA and 2 7.62mm machine guns), this amounts includes substantial portions for training of personnel, maintenance and logistics support over a number of years, and perhaps even construction of facilities in Brunei. IMHO it is not what PN would pay if it acquired these three - now preowned - ships from Brunei through Lurssen.

"The Muara Naval Base serves as the headquarters of the Royal Brunei Navy. The Naval Base was expanded in 1997 to include facilities to support three offshore support vessels. Muara Naval Base is frequently visited by foreign warships, most notable are the frequent visits by Royal Navy ships."
Royal Brunei Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The 600 million pounds also may have included some costs for preparing the Muara Naval Base for future use by RN.

3. By comparison:

On December 21, 2005, the Dutch government signed an agreement to transfer two [3,300t] M Class frigates to Belgium, which will replace the country’s two 1970s vintage Wielingen Class frigates [N.B. en Francais]. The frigates transferred will reportedly be the F827 Karel Doorman and F829 Willem van der Zaan. Both ships were commissioned in 1991. They will be renamed (new names TBD) before entering service with the Belgian Navy between 2007-2008. David informs us that “the price for the M-class frigates is between EUR 110 and 120 million per ship, a total of EUR 220 to 240 million.” This tracks closely to DID’s July 2005 estimate of “about EUR 100 million per ship.”

Belgium Purchases NH-90 Helis, Iveco Trucks, Second-Hand Frigates

NB: In 2004-2005 2 were already sold to Chilie (they were sold together with 2 older Jacob van Heemskerck L-class air-defence frigates under a deal valued at $350 million) and in 2006 2 more were sold to Portugal (for 240 million Euro for the pair), in preference to ex-USN Oliver Hazard Perry ships (which would have cost about the same, with 80 million USD purchase price plus 80 million USD un-mothballing cost per ship). The 2 ships remaining in Dutch service will be modernized by Thales Netherlands (installation of Seastar and Gatekeeper systems) to enhance surface threat detection capabilities and suitability for littoral operations.

In addition to 4 Dutch ships, Chili also bought three ships from the UK:

The United Kingdom and Chilean governments signed an agreement ... for the sale of three used Type 23-class frigates from the Royal Navy to the Chilean Navy (CN). It is believed the total package cost is around $350 million for the vessels and refit, to be completed in the United Kingdom.
Following the government-to-government contract signing, BAE Systems Customer Solutions & Support was awarded a $243 million contract to lead the preparation for transfer of the three units.

Chile, U.K. Complete Type 23 Frigate Purchase, Refit Deal | Sea Power | Find Articles at BNET

While the Brunei ships are of course newer and barely used, I doubt they will fetch
200 million GBP = 320.280 million USD = 218.322 million EUR per ship, if only because they are significantly smaller ships than the ones mentioned above.

 

[Jabar 1]

 

[Arsalan]

well i guess it is not too late to post:

i hope you will enjoy it as much as i did...
hope it was not posted earlier,

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

here is another one, news report presented on GEO News:

regards!