Kaiser
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Owais said:From which source did you hear that PAF is going for EUFTyphoon?? you know its a 55million euro a peice.
BTW: why Indians are so stupid to go for a test bed plane?
no bro., MKI has israeli avionics installed (having radar detecting range of 400km also acts as mini AWAC) with high maneuvariblity.
what I was trying to say is that If F10 is fitted with western avionics, it will be much better than F16. with chinese avionic, it don't have a chance.
Thats what im asking you, why would india go for Mirage-4000 as you stated in your previous post
I think we must buy new F16 C/D Block 52 in large numbers (atleast 55). the reason is that F16 have good avionics as compared to F10. the block 52 have AN/APG68 V(9) radar which provides both improved air-to-air capabilities and air-to-ground capabilities. These include:
The Block 52 is a version which has special provisions for the adverse weather delivery of the JDAM (Joint Direct Attack Munition).
- Detection range = 140+ Km
- The radar has a programmable signal processor that employs very high-speed integrated circuit (VHSIC) technology.
- Larger search volume and improved track performance in Track While Scan mode;
- Improved track performance in Single Target Track mode;
- Two-foot resolution in new Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) mode, which allows autonomous delivery of precision, all-weather, standoff weapons;
- Increased detection range in Sea Surveillance mode;
- Improved target detection and map quality in Ground Moving Target Indication mode.
- Also have ASEAD capablity.
On the other hand, J10 seems to be more manuverable than F16 due to its TVC engine. but without a suitable avionics, it will be a shooting practice for MKIs and Mirage 4000s.
Also according to this article a pakistani delegation visited italy last month to review the Eurofighter
Pakistan Seeks 3 Subs From France
New Design Would Free DCN of Spanish Partnership
By PIERRE TRAN, PARIS
Pakistani interest in three attack submarines is forcing France to make hard decisions over industrial interests vested in the DCN naval systems company and diplomatic and economic relations with Spain and India, analysts said.
Islamabad intends to spend $1 billion to $1.2 billion on three patrol submarines, preferably of a new design from DCN but possibly of the German 214 class, a Pakistani official said.
But the potential sale of high-tech weapons to Pakistan may be too much for the French government to swallow. The deal would steady employment at DCN?s Cherbourg sub yard, but would likely antagonize India, with whom Paris recently signed a defense agreement. New Delhi also is a submarine customer, having recently purchased six of DCN?s Scorpene attack subs.
The sale of an all-French design also might raise hackles in Spain. The Spanish are partners in building the Scorpene, but Spain?s Navantia yard is teaming with Lockheed Martin on its S-80 boat.
The Pakistani official said Islamabad ?is interested in a single-hull submarine,? distinct from quieter, more expensive double-hulled boats. ?We have made it known there is a requirement for three submarines.?
Islamabad wants a formal offer within six months from Armaris, the naval marketing joint venture of DCN and French systems house Thales, so it can order the subs within a year, the official said.
The country also is looking to buy 25 to 30 highly capable fighter aircraft, and is considering the Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon and Saab JAS 39 Gripen, the official said. A Pakistani delegation is due to go to Italy next month to see the Typhoon go through flight trials, he said.
The pursuit of the Pakistan deal shows DCN wants to develop new subs for export.
?This is a logical move, given DCN?s strong installed base in SSKs [diesel-powered attack submarines] and the attractions of the SSK market,? said Sash Tusa, an analyst at brokerage Goldman Sachs.
But going it alone might be seen as undermining all the recent talk of building European defense, French government and industry executives said.
The submarine sale underlines the clash between industrial and diplomatic interests for France, an analyst said.
?Industry needs it, but the French government does not want to contribute to a potential arms race in the region and cannot afford to upset India,? said Loic Tribot La Spiere, chief executive of the think tank Centre d?Etude et Prospective Strategique.
French military ties with Pakistan date back three decades. The Pakistani Navy was an early export customer of DCN?s Daphne submarine in the mid-1960s, setting the bar for other navies that operated near the Persian Gulf. Pakistan bought three Agosta 90B boats, dubbed the Khalid class, in the mid-1990s. Pakistan?s Air Force has flown the French-built Dassault Mirage III and V fighters.
This longstanding relationship gives DCN an edge in the competition, the Pakistani official said.
?We know their processes, their procedures,? the official said.
Wanted: Export Approval
But if Paris withholds export approval, Pakistan might turn to the 214 submarine built by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW), part of Germany?s ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems. It also might consider buying the subs from China, he said.
DCN is keen to sell, but has had trouble prying export approval from the high-level Commission Interminist鲩elle D?exportation des Mat鲩els de Guerre.
Officially, Armaris has not proposed a new submarine, because it lacks approval for an offer from the committee. But that did not prevent Armaris officials from making an informal product briefing on a DCN design to a Pakistani delegation led by a senior naval officer in mid-February, here.
The Pakistani official said delegation members were given to understand that DCN had been cleared by the export committee to make an offer. A French industry executive, however, said there is no offer because clearance has been withheld.
And a French defense official said, ?The attitude towards Pakistan is a very cautious one, where great prudence is needed.?
Armaris declined comment. The Ministry of Defense spokesman was not immediately available. The Foreign Ministry and Prime Minister?s office referred questions to the Ministry of Defense.
A DCN spokeswoman said the company did not discuss its clients and declined comment.
Still, the Pakistani official said his government expects a formal offer next month from Armaris.
DCN?s new design, code-named Marlin, closely resembles the 10-year-old Scorpene design, but would include newer technology, including features of the Barracuda nuclear attack boats to be built for the French Navy.
Marlin would have an air-independent propulsion (AIP) unit, the Pakistani official said. AIP, an alternative to batteries, allows longer periods of running submerged. Pakistan?s third and last Agosta boat is being fitted with a Mesma AIP system, and the two earlier boats will be retrofitted.
Pakistan has not asked for the Scorpene because it does not want to buy the same product as the Indian Navy.
DCN barely made any money on the Agosta deal, the French defense official said. He said it was unlikely the French government would agree to sell new subs at basement prices, the official said.
Pakistan said it got a bad deal because it paid $1.2 billion for the three subs, including a 50 percent down payment on signing in 1994, and the program is three years late.
Independence from Spain
If a Pakistan deal can be struck, DCN would regain the ability to export subs without Spanish participation.
In 1997, the French company partnered with Navantia predecessor Bazan to design the Scorpene because it lacked enough money to do it alone. But healthy sales have padded DCN?s cash accounts to some 2 billion euros ($2.4 billion), giving it enough money to invest in its own design.
Still, the Spanish connection was key to selling Scorpene to Chile, which opened up the Latin American market. But when Navantia installed a combat management system from Lockheed Martin, DCN officials took the rejection of a similar French system as a snub.
One French analyst said Navantia?s purchase of the Lockheed system was influenced by the U.S. administration, which is seeking a way to keep its 2001 pledge to sell eight diesel subs to Taiwan. Since Spain has limited trade with China, Madrid could sell the S-80s to Taiwan with little economic consequences, the analyst said.
Into the balance must be thrown France?s relations with India, which has just bought six Scorpene subs armed with MBDA anti-ship missiles. French President Jacques Chirac visited India and signed a defense agreement on Feb. 19 aimed at boosting industrial cooperation, as well as a preliminary pact to help New Delhi develop civil nuclear energy.
During Chirac?s visit, India?s state airline formally inked a purchase of 43 Airbus airliners, worth $2.5 billion at list price, and 15 ATR regional turboprops.
Dassault Aviation is waiting to see the terms of India?s tender for 126 combat aircraft, and is ready to pitch the Rafale fighter jet, having withdrawn the Mirage 2000-5 from competition.
Christopher P. Cavas contributed to this report from Washington
Once again your overating the mki, it doesnt have a 400 km range radar which even eireye doesnt have! At best it can target a C-130 sized plane from 250 km and a fighter the size of an f-16 at 150-160 km.The j-10 has a good phased aray radar with the range of 130 km which even beat the russian kopyo, and israeli elta in the competition (shows how good chinese radars are) and in the future F-10 will get aesa radar (allows pakistan to easily integrate it).F-10 also has 3D thrust vectoring conrol and canards making it more manueverable than the SU-30MKK (dont know about mki)
.Also Mirage-4000 is a testbed plane for the rafale so why would india go for the mirage-4000 when it can go for rafale? Mirage-4000 isnt even in the MRCA race!
