F-16 Block 15MLU/50/52 Fighter

[Owais]

get it over with, sign the ****, promise them whatever they want. it's in pakistans interest to keep the weapons to themselves as we need to protect our country against any aggression. chinese are going along fine with their own research.

But Chinese reseach will take long time(aprox 4 to 8 years) to develope avionics of western standards. and we want this technology Immediately.

 

[Neo]

Time is short to block Pakistan F-16 deal

By Roxana Tiron

Amid congressional grumbling over yet another Bush administration snub, the sale of Lockheed Martin’s F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan is expected to go through tomorrow because Congress is technically running out of time to stop it.

Instead of trying to block the deal by passing legislation, House International Relations Committee Chairman Henry Hyde (R-Ill.) and his Democratic counterpart, Rep. Tom Lantos (Calif.), are working behind the scenes with the administration to assuage their concerns about the security risks of the deal, as well as the administration’s notification process to Congress.

The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress on June 28 of a possible foreign military sale to Pakistan of 36 F-16s, a deal worth up to $5 billion. Lawmakers have a 30-day review period, during which they can move to block the sale.

But in what some congressional leaders are regarding as faux pas, the administration decided to waive another 20-day pre-notification period for conferring with lawmakers about the arms sale without asking Congress for permission, sources said.

Those 20 days are not legally binding like the 30-day review period, but they have been customary. Hyde was quick to accuse the administration of flouting Congress’s role in the process. Lantos, his Democratic counterpart, called the White House move insolent.

It is not the substance of the sale that lawmakers oppose but the process. They also expressed concerns that F-16 technology could fall into the wrong hands, as Pakistan housed the infamous A.Q. Khan nuclear-proliferation network.

To avoid being circumvented in the future, the lawmakers introduced a bill July 20 that would require quarterly updates on possible arms sales and would enforce a 20-day consultation period before a proposed sale could go forward. But that bill won’t be voted on before the House goes into its August recess.

“The chairman has been in negotiations with the administration on the way forward for arms-sales notification and consultation with Congress,” said Hyde spokeswoman Kristi Garlock. “He does not think at this point it is necessary” to vote on the bill.

“The State Department has backed down and is in the process of resolving what needed to be taken care of,” a congressional aide said. “The resolution won’t be taken up this week. It could come up later in the session.”

The administration is putting together a program to deal with the technology-security concerns raised by Lantos, the aide said.

The arms sale is going to take a few years, which means the administration has some time to spruce up its security plans, the aide added.

“They have come up with a plan that now deals with [security],” the aide said. Lockheed is expected to deliver 18 aircraft at first with a follow-on option for another 18.

“The F-16 sale furthers the national-security interests of both Pakistan and the United States,” said Mark Tavlarides, a lobbyist with Van Scoyoc Associates who represents the government of Pakistan.

It is extremely difficult for Congress to block an arms sale. It would require passage of a resolution to disapprove in both the House and the Senate before the 30-day review runs out. But the president can veto the resolution, and Congress could only override his veto if two-thirds of each chamber voted to do so.

“As a practical matter, it is virtually impossible for Congress to stop an arms sale,” confirmed a source closely following the sale to Pakistan.

Rep. Gary Ackerman (D-N.Y.), a strong supporter of India, Pakistan’s neighbor, introduced a resolution of disapproval, but it has not been taken up on the House floor. Yesterday, Ackerman was still circulating a “Dear Colleague” letter to gain support for his resolution.

The Senate has no such resolution and there are no plans to introduce one, according to a Foreign Relations Committee spokesperson. The Senate has postponed its closed hearings on the F-16 sale.

The sale of the fighter jets to Pakistan nearly coincides with the House vote on a U.S. civil nuclear agreement with India. The House was expected to pass a bill supporting the administration’s agreement last night.

The approximately $5 billion F-16 sale, just like the nuclear-technology agreement with India, is a presidential priority and is part of the administration’s South Asia strategy, aimed at broadening its relationships with Pakistan, India and Afghanistan.

http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/TheExecutive/072706_pakistan.html

 

[Neo]

US lawmaker seeks to block sale of fighter jets to Pakistan

WASHINGTON (AFP) - A leading Democrat in the US Congress introduced legislation to block the George W. Bush administration's proposed sale of up to 36 combat aircraft to Pakistan.
http://us.a2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a...06_1_300x250_lrec_morph_answerer_2b_share.jpg
Representative Ed Markey, who co-chairs a bipartisan congressional task force on non-proliferation, said his bill would prevent the sale of the three dozen F-16 fighter jets from going forward, unless the president certifies to Congress that Pakistan has terminated construction of its plutonium production reactor.
Earlier this week, press reports revealed that Pakistan has been building a plutonium production reactor capable of producing enough weapons-grade nuclear material for up to 50 atomic bombs per year.

"We should pressure India and Pakistan to stop producing plutonium and enrich uranium for nuclear bombs, not give them the tools to make and deliver those weapons with greater ease," Markey said, also linking the deal to his disapproval over a US-India civilian nuclear energy deal which cleared the House of Representatives Wednesday.

"These F-16 aircraft are capable of delivering nuclear weapons, and if this arms sale goes through, we will only be putting additional fuel on the fire of an Indian-Pakistan nuclear arms race."

Markey continued: "We should not proceed with this arms sale unless the US can prove that Pakistan is not moving forward with a nuclear reactor that, once completed, could be used to increase Pakistan's annual nuclear weapons production capability from an estimated seven bombs a year up to an estimated 50 bombs a year."

The administration last week defended its sale of fighter jets to Pakistan.
Assistant Secretary of State for Political-Military Affairs John Hillen told lawmakers that the fighter jets sale to Pakistan would help bolster a key US ally in the global fight against terrorism.

But key lawmakers have accused the White House of making an end-run around Congress and "flouting" the US legislature's oversight role of the sale.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060727/pl_afp/uspakistanmilitary_060727192224

 

[TexasJohn]

Hey guys, any truth to this? seems like a de-fang the F-16 scenario. Maybe I should look up the hearings:

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/9462.html

 

[sigatoka]

Markey continued: "We should not proceed with this arms sale unless the US can prove that Pakistan is not moving forward with a nuclear reactor that, once completed, could be used to increase Pakistan's annual nuclear weapons production capability from an estimated seven bombs a year up to an estimated 50 bombs a year."

Even if Pak. builds the plutonium facility, will it have enough plutonium to actually build 50 a year. Some how I think the figure is exaggerated. How can you go from producing 7 right up to 50.

 

[RAPTOR]

US lawmaker seeks to block sale of fighter jets to Pakistan

WASHINGTON (AFP) - A leading Democrat in the US Congress introduced legislation to block the George W. Bush administration's proposed sale of up to 36 combat aircraft to Pakistan.

Representative Ed Markey, who co-chairs a bipartisan congressional task force on non-proliferation, said his bill would prevent the sale of the three dozen F-16 fighter jets from going forward, unless the president certifies to Congress that Pakistan has terminated construction of its plutonium production reactor.
Earlier this week, press reports revealed that Pakistan has been building a plutonium production reactor capable of producing enough weapons-grade nuclear material for up to 50 atomic bombs per year.

"We should pressure India and Pakistan to stop producing plutonium and enrich uranium for nuclear bombs, not give them the tools to make and deliver those weapons with greater ease," Markey said, also linking the deal to his disapproval over a US-India civilian nuclear energy deal which cleared the House of Representatives Wednesday.

"These F-16 aircraft are capable of delivering nuclear weapons, and if this arms sale goes through, we will only be putting additional fuel on the fire of an Indian-Pakistan nuclear arms race."

Markey continued: "We should not proceed with this arms sale unless the US can prove that Pakistan is not moving forward with a nuclear reactor that, once completed, could be used to increase Pakistan's annual nuclear weapons production capability from an estimated seven bombs a year up to an estimated 50 bombs a year."

The administration last week defended its sale of fighter jets to Pakistan.
Assistant Secretary of State for Political-Military Affairs John Hillen told lawmakers that the fighter jets sale to Pakistan would help bolster a key US ally in the global fight against terrorism.

But key lawmakers have accused the White House of making an end-run around Congress and "flouting" the US legislature's oversight role of the sale.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060727/pl_afp/uspakistanmilitary_060727192224[/quote]


You can thank the indians for this. Is anyone still delusional about wanting to befriend this race of beings?

 

[Neo]

Is it me or do you guys see the double standards here aswell?

The socalled civil nuke deal with India will allow her to spare plutonium from the 8 military reactors which are not under the Iaea safeguard which will result in exeleration of building nuke warheads.
Yet they are concerned about us?? :read:

 

[Munir]

It is the usual bashing that was done by India but now they pay Americans to do the same. Well. It just shows inferiority complex cause they cannot handle it. Crying cause they cannot ever defeat Pakistan. Crying that they cannot defeat China. Crying cause all their products are not that good. Like they say.. Barking dogs do not bite. And India is barking 24/7.

On the other Hand Pakistan should improve its image. The military rule is not a good pr. Neither are the fanatics that are either ruining the economy or busy to make Pakistan look worser.

 

[MrConcerned]

With all the short termism thinking of posters here, can you blame America for being cautious? These are top of the line stuff, or there would be no need for such security measures.

Or you can wait 10 years for other local planes to reach that level of technology. Maybe.

 

[Sid]

These attempts to block the deal are useless and just plainly flawed in their approach. The reason they give for these attempts is that the F-16s that Pakistan would be getting would be able to deliver nuclear bombs and so we should not add fuel to the arms race. I ask them WHAT ARMS RACE?

Is India sitting ducks with its Su-30s? Do they NOT know that the F-16s that Pakistan currently have, have already been modified and made nuclear capable by Pakistan?

 

[Averroes]

Posted on Sat, Jul. 29, 2006

Plan to sell F-16 jets to Pakistan cleared
By JUDY MATHEWSON and EDMOND LOCOCO
BLOOMBERG NEWS

A Bush administration plan to sell as many as 36 Lockheed Martin Corp. F-16 jets and other equipment to Pakistan, the largest U.S. arms sale to the South Asian country, has emerged unscathed from a congressional review period.

Friday was the deadline for the Republican-controlled Congress to block the $5 billion sale. Without a two-thirds vote in both the House and Senate to kill the sale, it is automatically approved under the laws governing international arms sales.

"This sale is really a done deal now," said Christine Fair, an expert in South Asian political and military affairs at the U.S. Institute of Peace, a nonpartisan group founded by Congress.

The U.S. is trying to reward Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf for his support in the war on terrorism in the face of domestic opposition. The U.S. is also trying to help Pakistan step up the fight against al Qaeda and allied fighters along its border with Afghanistan.

Lockheed has delivered more than 4,300 F-16s, built at its west Fort Worth plant, and gets about $3 billion in annual sales from the fighter. International F-16 deliveries are scheduled through 2009, when the line would be shut down unless there are additional orders.

The Pakistan deal includes 36 advanced pilot helmets that display target information on the visor and up to 500 Boeing kits for ground-attack, satellite-guided bombs.

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/business/15152904.htm

 

[Neo]

Pakistan on Saturday welcomed the Congress approval to the sale of Lockheed Martin's F-16 fighter jets to the country because the Congress was technically run out of time to stop it.

Foreign Office spokesperson Tasnim Aslam hoped that the delivery of the planes will start as soon as possible.

The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress on June 28 of a possible foreign military sale to Pakistan of 36 F-16s, a deal worth up to five billion dollars.

Lawmakers had a 30-day review period, during which they can move to block the sale.

Opponents of the deal could not succeed to block it and the deadline expired on Friday.

It was earlier thought that it would be extremely difficult for Congress to block the arms sale.

It would require passage of a resolution to disapprove in both the House and the Senate before the 30-day review runs out.

This was a positive development.
It has removed all hurdles in the way of the deal, the Pakistani spokesperson said.

She would not say when the delivery of the planes will start but hoped that the supply will begin as a formal agreement is struck.
The F-16 plane is part of the arms sale, which is going to take a few years.

Lockheed is expected to deliver 18 aircraft at first with a follow-on option for another 18, according to reports.

The F-16 sale furthers the national security interests of both Pakistan and the United States, said Mark Tavlarides, a lobbyist with Van Scoyoc Associates who represents the Government of Pakistan.

The approximately five-billion-dollar F-16 sale is a presidential priority and is part of the administration's South Asia strategy, aimed at broadening its relationships with Pakistan, India and Afghanistan, US officials believe.

 

[Owais]

Formal F16 sale agreement with US soon

WASHINGTON (July 31 2006): Now that the US administration's proposal for sale of F16s to Pakistan stands approved, both the countries are to enter into a formal agreement shortly to be followed by start of delivery of the falcons, sources said. Lockheed Martin is the company to provide the aircraft, and the update package.

The US Defence Security Cooperation Agency notified to Congress on June 28 of its intent for sale to Pakistan of 36 new F-16s, and 26 refurbished jets, ammunition and update package worth up to $5 billion.

Besides the aircraft, whose exact number will be known once both the countries sign a formal agreement, expected shortly, the delivery of the jets would follow and completed in a few years. The proposal is also for ammunition, logistic support and updates.

"It would be up to Pakistan how many falcons it wants to purchase," sources state.

 

[Best of the Best]

According to me this F-16 deal is nothing but non-sence given the fact that the restrictions being placed on the F-16block50/52 are not acceptable by me, the F-16's are going to be for defencive roles i.e souly based for A2A roles....these F-16's will be stripped down of there offensive punch if so whats the use of the F-16's when they cant even fly 50km near the border thats even more then the PAF and IAF no fly zone restriction but what i am saying is from the news and the congressional hearing i heard if these F-16's cant go into the indian territory then why the heck is uncle Sam giving us JDAM and powerful weapons like bunker busters who the hell are we suppose to use these againt if not the indians???:idiot:

To my suprise the most weird part about this deal is that UAE got the well known block 60's with the tag of 80 million each which include everything from spares,weapons and logistics then why the hell is one single USAF standard F-16block50/52 costing 83 million to the PAF this is the question even the so called PAF personal are asking if u ask me this is a complete rip off given the fact that india is being offered state of the art F-16's and F-18's and when i say state of the art i am refering to the electronics and ofcource the AESA raders like APG-79 and APG-80 to me 5.1 billion dollers is a rip off for so called 34current+262nd hand peace gate F-16's upgraded(MLU) aircraft and 18F-16's and plz its not 36 F-16's we are recieving its only 18 F-16C/D's block50/52's...

 

[Best of the Best]

That's what I said but no one will bother to listen to me!

Well majority of the people are not agreing but at the end of the day if these F-16's are being taken up for defensive roles only i.e A2A then PAF should push for APG-80 as well as aim-9X these F-16s are only being taken for the decade we lost due to santion's i guess PAF best bet for air offensive would be the JF-17 and J-10 and as far as J-10 is concurned its quite promissing according to the news i have been hearing PAF J-10 are bieng tailered made and would come up with some excellent A2G offensive punch:thumbsup: mind it that J-10's main purpose is air superiourity...