F-16 Block 15MLU/50/52 Fighter
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When we get something we dont buy it and when the option will not be there anymore, then we will realize that we need more F-16s and would have to start negotiating from scratch.
I don't understand the pessimism, Its not like we're cancelling the entire deal. Consider it gass half empty. We're getting 18 new Block 52 F-16C/D plus MLU kitts for exisiting fleet, only the 18 in option will not be materialised.
What we want from this deal is access to higher technology to improve and update future versions of the JF-17 and possibly FC-20. Look at the resemblence between JF-17 and F-16A, our 20+ years of flying experience enabled us to implement a number of sophisticated systems and add changes to the design. All we need is a few Block 52's to achieve what we have in mind, a 4.5 gen version of JF-17.
Not matierlising the option for 18 F-16's will not affect our capabilities, J-10C and FC-20 are definately on the table, these birds will come without any strings attached and reduce our reliance on USA.
ejaz007
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As far as I can foresee the most possible F-16 numbers in PAF should be something like this:
F-16 A/B 32 (in service to go through MLU in phases)
F-16 A/B 28 (originally embargoes but shall now be supplied and go through MLU, 4 already supplied)
F-16 C/D 18 (with an option for 18 more)
Total 78
This makes a total of 6 squadrons of 12 planes a piece. In my view this is quite close to what PAF had originally planned and if they decide to go ahead with remaining option of 18 then the strength is enough.
F-16 A/B 32 (in service to go through MLU in phases)
F-16 A/B 28 (originally embargoes but shall now be supplied and go through MLU, 4 already supplied)
F-16 C/D 18 (with an option for 18 more)
Total 78
This makes a total of 6 squadrons of 12 planes a piece. In my view this is quite close to what PAF had originally planned and if they decide to go ahead with remaining option of 18 then the strength is enough.
fatman17
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full strength PAF sqdn = 18 a/c.
IceCold
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I don't understand the pessimism, Its not like we're cancelling the entire deal. Consider it gass half empty. We're getting 18 new Block 52 F-16C/D plus MLU kitts for exisiting fleet, only the 18 in option will not be materialised.
What we want from this deal is access to higher technology to improve and update future versions of the JF-17 and possibly FC-20. Look at the resemblence between JF-17 and F-16A, our 20+ years of flying experience enabled us to implement a number of sophisticated systems and add changes to the design. All we need is a few Block 52's to achieve what we have in mind, a 4.5 gen version of JF-17.
Not matierlising the option for 18 F-16's will not affect our capabilities, J-10C and FC-20 are definately on the table, these birds will come without any strings attached and reduce our reliance on USA.
Deals dont happen in just one day, it takes years specially in case of US. Our problem is that every new government reverses the decision took by the previous government, nomatter how good the decision could turn out to be for pakistan. Obiviously JF-17 and J-10 were on the table before also, however the decision of the GOP to go for the F-16 and not for the J-10 is known to all. Block-52 is something yet to be achieved by the chinese. And IMO 18 is not at all a number we could rely on specially when IAF will get new generation jets and that too in bulk. Both J-10 and JF-17 can be a force multiplier but not the force it self. And lets not forget like Blain sir mentioned in one of his posts that PAF was studing the feasibility along with L.M for integrating an AESA radar into the block52, if that was possible, we might see an AESA radar in our next batch of the F-16s but if we are to cut orders, obiviously US too looks for good business and in this case they would not provide us with something that otherwise would have been possible.
Point taken but I won't call an AESA equipped JF-17 merely a force multiplier, its a capable aircraft in a net centric scenario well equipped to intercept the intruder.
The threat coming from MKI and future MRCA will be countered by (new + MLU) 78 F-16's and 40-100 FC-20 which will be more capable than the current J-10.
We're yet more to learn about the FC-20, from what info I have gathered its going to be in the league of Block 52 F-16 if not more.
The threat coming from MKI and future MRCA will be countered by (new + MLU) 78 F-16's and 40-100 FC-20 which will be more capable than the current J-10.
We're yet more to learn about the FC-20, from what info I have gathered its going to be in the league of Block 52 F-16 if not more.
Proud to be Pakistani
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This is why i always like Pakistan close in the group of French Air Industry!
JF-17 based on MBDA - AESA will strenghten the fighters capability in its existing structure atleast 2 folds..... Go french way! ... 2 Squadrons of Rafale..
JF-17 based on MBDA - AESA will strenghten the fighters capability in its existing structure atleast 2 folds..... Go french way! ... 2 Squadrons of Rafale..
indiapakistanfriendship
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But is the MBDA AESA readar ready in the first place.
Cowboys vs. Russkies. 
qaisar52
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Hi every one! As we all know that people are taking about advance Fighter planes to buy. Yea F 16 c / d block are advanced 4/5 generation fighter but if you are skilled pilot you can win the fight by making good decisions. Planes can't do any thing. It is the pilot who fly that bird can also make the difference. Recently in the same thread some one post that F7 many times shoot down the f16 when he reach in his peak 4000Ft. so it is the pilot who can make the things in his way. Our 65 war Pilot heros makes it true that you can win the battle when you are well trained and have skill and motivation. You can guard your space and country even you have Technological lover generation plane.
PAF zinda bad
PAF zinda bad
Keysersoze
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Qaisar52 sorry to do this to you dude, but the idea that we still live in 1965 and that things have not moved on technologically is not true. Yes well trained pilots do make a difference. But put a well trained pilot in a crappy plane and I am betting chances are that he will be a dead well trained pilot.
GOOD TRAINING + GOOD EQUIPMENT = BETTER RESULT.
Otherwise as I have been saying, the PAF would still be flying Bi-planes.
fatman17
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http://www8.janes.com
This is an old article from JDW...I wanted to know if there has been any progress / update on this...
JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - APRIL 21, 2004
Chinese missile may be for Pakistan's F-16s
ROBERT HEWSON Editor Jane's Air-Launched Weapons
Bangkok
China is about to bring a second beyond-visual-range (BVR) air-to-air missile (AAM) to the export market. The new weapon, to be known as the FD-60, is already in service with the People's Liberation Army Air Force as the PL-11.
In China it equips the Shen- yang J-8II 'Finback' interceptor but, according to the manufacturer, the export version is intended for the F-16 - a clear signal that Pakistan could be the lead customer.
Development of the FD-60 (PL-11) began in 1987 and was completed in 2000, according to the China National Precision Machinery Import & Export Corporation (CPMIEC). The weapon is described as an air-launched version of the LY-60 surface-to-air missile. It uses semi-active radar homing and has a range of 20-25km.
The missile borrows heavily from Aspide technology supplied by Italy before an arms embargo was imposed on China following the Tiananmen Square massacre.
China also had access to early-model US-built AIM-7 Sparrow missiles acquired via Vietnam, from which the Aspide itself is derived. Since the late 1980s Chinese technicians have been developing a Sparrow-class missile that led to the LY-60 and FD-60 weapons.
Until now most observers had assessed the PL-11/FD-60 programme as a largely unsuccessful effort that had been overtaken by the more advanced PL-12/SD-10 active-radar AAM, developed under the leadership of the China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corp (CATIC). However, it now appears that work on the PL-11/FD-60 has continued, perhaps to provide a back-up capability in the event of problems with the PL-12/SD-10 but also because CPMIEC has identified an export market for the missile.
As the FD-60 is based largely on the Aspide/Sparrow design, integrating it with US-built aircraft should be relatively straightforward. Such a missile would be of great interest to existing customers of Chinese equipment, such as Pakistan and Iran, that have inventories of US fighters for which they cannot obtain advanced weapons - chiefly BVR missiles.
The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is already working on acquiring a BVR combat capability through the SD-10 and JF-17 Thunder (CATIC FC-1 fighter) combination. However, the opportunity to add a BVR AAM to its inventory much sooner (via the F-16) would surely be seized by the PAF command, which has already identified such weapons as one of its highest acquisition priorities.
This is an old article from JDW...I wanted to know if there has been any progress / update on this...
JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - APRIL 21, 2004
Chinese missile may be for Pakistan's F-16s
ROBERT HEWSON Editor Jane's Air-Launched Weapons
Bangkok
China is about to bring a second beyond-visual-range (BVR) air-to-air missile (AAM) to the export market. The new weapon, to be known as the FD-60, is already in service with the People's Liberation Army Air Force as the PL-11.
In China it equips the Shen- yang J-8II 'Finback' interceptor but, according to the manufacturer, the export version is intended for the F-16 - a clear signal that Pakistan could be the lead customer.
Development of the FD-60 (PL-11) began in 1987 and was completed in 2000, according to the China National Precision Machinery Import & Export Corporation (CPMIEC). The weapon is described as an air-launched version of the LY-60 surface-to-air missile. It uses semi-active radar homing and has a range of 20-25km.
The missile borrows heavily from Aspide technology supplied by Italy before an arms embargo was imposed on China following the Tiananmen Square massacre.
China also had access to early-model US-built AIM-7 Sparrow missiles acquired via Vietnam, from which the Aspide itself is derived. Since the late 1980s Chinese technicians have been developing a Sparrow-class missile that led to the LY-60 and FD-60 weapons.
Until now most observers had assessed the PL-11/FD-60 programme as a largely unsuccessful effort that had been overtaken by the more advanced PL-12/SD-10 active-radar AAM, developed under the leadership of the China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corp (CATIC). However, it now appears that work on the PL-11/FD-60 has continued, perhaps to provide a back-up capability in the event of problems with the PL-12/SD-10 but also because CPMIEC has identified an export market for the missile.
As the FD-60 is based largely on the Aspide/Sparrow design, integrating it with US-built aircraft should be relatively straightforward. Such a missile would be of great interest to existing customers of Chinese equipment, such as Pakistan and Iran, that have inventories of US fighters for which they cannot obtain advanced weapons - chiefly BVR missiles.
The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is already working on acquiring a BVR combat capability through the SD-10 and JF-17 Thunder (CATIC FC-1 fighter) combination. However, the opportunity to add a BVR AAM to its inventory much sooner (via the F-16) would surely be seized by the PAF command, which has already identified such weapons as one of its highest acquisition priorities.
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