F-16 Block 15MLU/50/52 Fighter

[Munir]

bye bye bye

US Congressional committee plans hearing on F-16 sale


By Anwar Iqbal


WASHINGTON, Sept 13: A US congressional panel has called a hearing on the Bush administration’s decision to sell F-16 aircraft to Pakistan, probing allegations that Islamabad is using US anti-terrorism funds to buy weapons that can only be used against India.

The title of the hearing —“Defeating Al Qaeda’s Air Force: Pakistan’s F-16 Programme in the Fight Against Terrorism” — indicates that the programme may face strong criticism from US lawmakers.

The hearing was called by Congressman Gary Ackerman, a New York Democrat, who chairs the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on the Middle East and South Asia.

Last week, Democratic presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama also accused Pakistan of using US anti-terrorism funds for “preparing for a war against India”.

On Sept 16, the House sub-committee will seek witness testimony about the complete scope of the F-16 programme with Pakistan, including the number of planes, updates made to the existing planes, proposed armaments, schedule of delivery and source of payment. It will also probe how Pakistan has so far used US foreign military financing (FMF) for counter-terrorism and law-enforcement activities against Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

“The sub-committee will seek testimony on how these planes contribute to Pakistan’s efforts in the fight against terrorism and extremism, how the use of additional FMF to pay for mid-life updates to Pakistan’s existing F-16 fleet enhances those efforts and whether the sub-committee should expect further requests to use FMF provided to Pakistan for support of the F-16 programme,” said Mr Ackerman.

The sub-committee is also expected to examine what counter-terrorism equipment or programmes were foregone as a result of the Bush administration’s request on July 16 to use counter-terrorism funds for financing mid-life updates of Pakistan’s aging F-16 fleet. The panel will also look at how the F-16 programme fits into the broader US strategy in the fight against terrorism as well as into the overall US relationship with Pakistan.

 

[IceCold]

Well we did made the mistake by going for the F-16s even though when we had other choices at hand. Now i know i will face the argument of how cheap it is for the PAF to maintain the F-16s as we already have the infrastructure in place and PAF being familar with the F-16s or that the other platforms were very expensive for the PAF to acquire etc etc, but the bottom line is did we get it, NO we did not, so let me ask a question here, what good did it brought us finally, except of offcourse the time that was wasted in the acquiring of modern platforms that PAF needed badly. EVen if we could get only one squardon of rafale or for that matter the EF, we should have opted for it and with time as more funds would have been made available, we could have increased the numbers. Now with time lost we are back to square one.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

man screw F-16s.. uncle sam can shove it up theirs where the sun does not shine!! very cost effective, low maintenance, and F-16 well crew trained will come to test when these "savior" of pakistan aka "F-16" comes with a little surprise during possible pak indo war and PAF finds its F-16s stuck in hangers because all of sudden navigation or critical systems have been corrupted!! oooppss...... well if you thought hollywood films were fictions PAF will be the first one to realize how nonfiction these movies were..

 

[shehbazi2001]

Views of Gp Capt (R) Cecil Chaudry about F-16 acquisition

Q. What is your opinion about the F-16 deal?

Though the finest aircraft of its kind we should never have gone for the F16s. Like I said earlier we never learn from our past mistakes. The Americans have a very poor political track record with us; they let us down in 65 and 71 despite we being members of their CENTO pact. On the other hand France has been a reliable friend, we should have gone for the Mirage-2000 instead. I don’t know but we hear about kickbacks in the F16 deal but NAB does not seem to think so or they don’t want to go that far. But I do know of a number of ex PAF officers who could not afford a car, now own flats in England — thanks to British weekly lottery I guess.


Chowk: Law Liberties Justice: Group Captain Cecil Chaudhry, SJ

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Views of Gp Capt (R) Cecil Chaudry about F-16 acquisition

Q. What is your opinion about the F-16 deal?

Though the finest aircraft of its kind we should never have gone for the F16s. Like I said earlier we never learn from our past mistakes. The Americans have a very poor political track record with us; they let us down in 65 and 71 despite we being members of their CENTO pact. On the other hand France has been a reliable friend, we should have gone for the Mirage-2000 instead. I don’t know but we hear about kickbacks in the F16 deal but NAB does not seem to think so or they don’t want to go that far.But I do know of a number of ex PAF officers who could not afford a car, now own flats in England — thanks to British weekly lottery I guess.


Chowk: Law Liberties Justice: Group Captain Cecil Chaudhry, SJhttp://www.chowk.com/articles/5080

dude! this is a serious issue!!!

 

[shehbazi2001]

It must be remembered that in 1965 on the Khem Kiran front, Pak Army seized some ammunition from Indian Army and it was amazing to see that on some boxes it was written "To be shipped to Pakistan"

These were US ammo containers/boxes destined for Pakistan but with outbreak of war with India in 1965, they were delivered to India instead.

Pakistan being a nuclear state, has strategic assets to defend and should have gone for fighters equipped with BVR Air to Air missiles.

Cecil Chaudhry has mentioned of Kickbacks in F-16 deal, now its not understandable that why PAF dropped Mirage-2000 deal when allegedly there were charges of corruption??? Instead of making the deal transparent, we dropped the deal......

I think we should suffer now.....and suffer badly.....in order not to repeat the mistakes......

 

[shehbazi2001]

dude! this is a serious issue!!!

I think Cecil is pointing to first F-16 acquisition in early 1980s and not the current deal.....however it is still relevant.

 

[shehbazi2001]

man screw F-16s.. uncle sam can shove it up theirs where the sun does not shine!! very cost effective, low maintenance, and F-16 well crew trained will come to test when these "savior" of pakistan aka "F-16" comes with a little surprise during possible pak indo war and PAF finds its F-16s stuck in hangers because all of sudden navigation or critical systems have been corrupted!! oooppss...... well if you thought hollywood films were fictions PAF will be the first one to realize how nonfiction these movies were..

These things are not fiction.....a far eastern country has already experienced it....I forgot the country...it was perhaps F/A-18 operator.....they were amazed to know that they cant use their fighters against a certain neighbour.....I shall post details if I found them out....

 

[araz]

One of my dear friends confided in me that he thinks we will never get F16s Bl 52+. I did not believe him then, perhaps his experience was MUCH more than mine. Sorry MY friend
rgearding kickbacks, I thin the fact that PAF changed tack half way through with massive reduction in orders goes against that, but who knows!!!!
Araz

 

[shehbazi2001]

I read this on a forum and I dont know it in more detail. However I am copying this from another forum of military aviation, without my personal comments,

"I would like to point out a statement made last year (2006) by the former Malaysian PM, Dr Mahathir. It seems the ten F/A-18s, that Malaysians purchased from USA cannot be used against certain neighboring countries because the aircraft computers are programmed like that. There is a special source code to modify the programme, which the USA did not give the Malaysians, and the latter came to know of this limitation only later".

 

[IceCold]

Man i just hate it when mistakes over mistakes are committed time and time again. Indeed i would agree here with the retired Capt that there is more to this deal then what we normally hear about the infrastructure and other nonsense. While lost time now cannot be regained and i for highly doubt that unless our top brass will hear a straight no to their face there eyes wont be opened, i would still wish for the top brass to get their heads out of the sand and analyze the situation at hand, drop the idea of going for this damn piece of junk and enter into negotiations with the french over the possible induction of the Rafale even if that means one squardon of it. Latter we can sell our F-16s raise a bit money out of them and perhaps increase its numbers. A contract with the Chinese should also be finalized by now either we want the J-10 or not.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

hmmm we are waisting 5 billion dollars on something that will be absolute by 2030 20 years from now without any guarantee that it wont be bugged along with armament package.. waisting almost 1.5 billion dollars on new18 f-16s where as Austria paid 1.4 billion dollars for 14 EF-2000 with spare, training and i think armament package as well. here we are stuck with efff sollahh... though i think upgrading teens is a good thing.. PAF has no answer for IAF 124 MRCA and even MKI to some degree.. PAF has yet to decide an AESA and french avioncis package for FC-20.... let me guess.. something cheap and "cost effective" mirage-2000-5/9 avionics and radar do you guys think ACM needs a double check? and from whom?

 

[ejaz007]

We are not wasting our 5 billion dollars on the package. It was part of US military assistance that was announced for next perhaps three years. The buy of new F-16 would cost around 1 billion dollars and the rest of the amount is for some other programs including MLUs for the existing fleet. Some of the money has already been released for MLUs and F-16 related purchases for the MLUs.

Pakistan is only paying for the new F-16's and that too I hope after the matter goes through Congress. This is what we should do considering previous track record.

US administration had notified congress regarding the sale and congres had thirty days to block it which it did not. The only thing that can block the sale now is a law like Pressler amendment which I personally believe is not likely soon because of the WOT.

Any ways we should seriously consider new model Mirage 2000 to reduce our dependency on F-16. French should be interested as they have failed to gather any orders for some time.

 

[Nomi929]

Any ways we should seriously consider new model Mirage 2000 to reduce our dependency on F-16. French should be interested as they have failed to gather any orders for some time.

Assembly Line of Mirage 2000 has been closed.

France is putting all effort towards rafale.

 

[ejaz007]

Closing of assembly line does not mean the product can not be produced again. Remember Rafael has not bagged reasonable order from any airforce. So if say PAF goes for about 30 Mirage 2000-9 then I am sure French would be more than happy to reopen production line.

Dassault's web site still lists Mirage 2000. This means they have not entirely thrown out the fighter.