Export bids for JF-17 Thunder Multirole Lightweight Fighter Aircraft

[jetti]

problem is china has banned pak from exporting jf17

 

[Pak47]

LOL!

Some Indians on this forum make me laugh so much.

 

[Luftwaffe]

With All this its clear that FC-1/JF-17 is Chinese plane and PAK has nothing Say in it. More the advance the plane is more care /maintenance required.

When India brought Mirage , French asked us to build special Shelter to protect it from Sun/heat or else they wont sell mirages.

No you are wrong, PAF is fulfilling its demand so we can't manufacture for exports for now that leaves China to do it including all the post manufacturing testing and vice versa. China did not offer FC-1 in the first place instead it pitched in offered a variant of F-7 to bangladesh and nigera. If things continue like that for the next 5-7 years FC-1 exports will definitely be delayed.

Read Tempest II post #264 he has an excellent point.

 

[danger007]

Sir i think Pakistan economy is not at a good stage and still we manage to make this bird which was started after you and has been given operational clearance so what are you saying bro i am not disrespectful to LCA but i do think the time it has taken and still not a single sqd ready HAL is the which has insulted LCA



Sir i think Pakistan economy is not at a good stage and still we manage to make this bird which was started after you and has been given operational clearance so what are you saying bro i am not disrespectful to LCA but i do think the time it has taken and still not a single sqd ready HAL is the which has insulted LCA


Lets hope brother i would love to see JFT's in EAF also


Lets hope brother i would love to see JFT's in EAF also

It is co-developed product.... more funds came from China than pak....

anyways come back to the topic...

 

[That Guy]

I think you are wrong!

Selling F-7s is a different thing from JF-17. Some countries cannot afford buying JF-17. the price of one JF-17 is equivalent to three J-7s. There is nothing "DIRTY" here as you said

Also until now the sale of JF-17 still have the engine obstacles to tackle. Correct? So countries would not bet on the clearance of the obstacles for their decisions.



1. Where is the link to the source?
2. The statement has clearly explained the problem with the purchasing country.
You cant drive a Formula 1 or 2 race car before you have a driver's licence
Both the people from both China and Pakistan participated in the discussion

That seems like a strategic decision rather than a financial one.

 

[ejaz007]

It is co-developed product.... more funds came from China than pak....

anyways come back to the topic...

Both countries have a 50% share in the project.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

No you are wrong, PAF is fulfilling its demand so we can't manufacture for exports for now that leaves China to do it including all the post manufacturing testing and vice versa. China did not offer FC-1 in the first place instead it pitched in offered a variant of F-7 to bangladesh and nigera. If things continue like that for the next 5-7 years FC-1 exports will definitely be delayed.

Read Tempest II post #264 he has an excellent point.

Accepted, but after the deal is signed , Delivery began after 2 years and not immediate and their was ample of time for PAK to enhance production capacity in those years.

So this logic of dosent fit well.

Moreover , Why should China keep its JF-17 production line empty???

Even @10 plane /year will take 15 yrs for 150 plane, production need to be gradually increase up and production capacity need to be increased , So dont find any logical explanation citing production as an excuse.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

Both countries have a 50% share in the project.

agreed but who owns IPR of the product will matters, since JF17 have all Chinese components in it, so even PAF export any plane then it has to procure all components from China other then Airframe it will increase the cost of Plane as PAK will add its pie , therefore Countries prefer to buy from China directly which will cost less then PAF produced plane.

China is for business and not for charity.

 

[ejaz007]

agreed but who owns IPR of the product will matters, since JF17 have all Chinese components in it, so even PAF export any plane then it has to procure all components from China other then Airframe it will increase the cost of Plane as PAK will add its pie , therefore Countries prefer to buy from China directly which will cost less then PAF produced plane.

China is for business and not for charity.

In financial terms it does not matter if countries buy from China or from Pakistan. Pakistan shall still benefit.

The additional benefit might be that we may secure contract for the maintenance of the fighters if the customer country does not have infrastructure available.

In international relations Pakistan has friendly relations with a number of countries and can promote the fighter more effectively. Pakistan's shall not add large pie to keep the entire deal lucrative and even might drop the pie because she shall still get her share in the end.

 

[Gentelman]

agreed but who owns IPR of the product will matters, since JF17 have all Chinese components in it, so even PAF export any plane then it has to procure all components from China other then Airframe it will increase the cost of Plane as PAK will add its pie , therefore Countries prefer to buy from China directly which will cost less then PAF produced plane.

China is for business and not for charity.

the avionics and radar are produced in Kamra dear and even Pakistan can write the JFT program…………
Some parts of airframe e.g DSI etc are imported with engine……

 

[Glitcher]

It is co-developed product.... more funds came from China than pak....

anyways come back to the topic...

what do you mean by more funds ? it was 50 50 based project

 

[Umair Nawaz]

agreed but who owns IPR of the product will matters, since JF17 have all Chinese components in it, so even PAF export any plane then it has to procure all components from China other then Airframe it will increase the cost of Plane as PAK will add its pie , therefore Countries prefer to buy from China directly which will cost less then PAF produced plane.

China is for business and not for charity.

prove it......

the avionics and radar are produced in Kamra dear and even Pakistan can write the JFT program…………
Some parts of airframe e.g DSI etc are imported with engine……

Its entire s/w is written in Pak using C++ language that JSF F-35 also uses.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

prove it......



Its entire s/w is written in Pak using C++ language that JSF F-35 also uses.

the KLJ7 Radar is assembled in Karma , but parts procured from China, No county ever give the radar source Code to anyone till now, Only once instance US given f-16 Radar Source code to Israel.

I Dont think China provided you Source Code of the Radar you can verify it with Seniors.

Since the Avionics Data bus and other components developed by China , therefore Source Code also be written by China only because code can only be developed by a company who develops/ design the architecture.

prove it......



Its entire s/w is written in Pak using C++ language that JSF F-35 also uses.

please prove which components of JF-17 made by you? which you do not manufacture under lic. from china and developed by you alone.

Because you made anything under lic then you have pay royal

 

[shuttler]

I'm still Correct you guys need to let F-7 go its 2013 think different don't run for a 10m-50m cash, show the best you've got not selling around vintage. Gripen has been sold with US Engines to Thailand, South Africa, Hungry, Czech Republic. If Pakistan can buy and use RD-93 so can other countries it would be beneficial to Russia. When you say russians are your best allies and they've even offered SU-35 so what is so wrong about purchasing RD-93, russians would be glad to furnish the orders.

Price of F-7 is at 10m [F-7BGI]. Even Angola flys su-27 did you know? so russians have no problem exporting RD-93 to those interested in FC-1 you can sell it with downgraded avionics according to their requirements still it would surpass F-7s in all Areas. After all a basic FC-1 cost 15m they are not going to die paying 5m more for a over all better Aircraft.

I dont think Gripen is relevant to the case given Sweden/USA have no problems of exporting their jet fighters to nations which they do not blacklist

so russians have no problem exporting RD-93 to those interested in FC-1

the russian engines for exports have been the major obstacle since day 1. Has the China/Pakistan partnership made any progress on that with the Russians? If they have please post a link. If they have not, I can tell you why!

Angola is flying Su-27. That is their preference. I have absolutely no doubt that J-17 is on another level when compared with J-7. But there are still countries where fighter jets at the level of J-7 can find a market niche. In a room of the blind, the one-eyed man is the king.

A standard J-17 (Blk 1) costs $15~16 million apiece. A J-7 is @ 1/3 of the price.

 

[shuttler]

That seems like a strategic decision rather than a financial one.

For the buyers financial decision play an important part. As long as the engine problem is not solved, the export of J-17 is always a concern for the buyers because Russian may play games restricting the sale of their engines to the China/Pakistan partnership.