Export bids for JF-17 Thunder Multirole Lightweight Fighter Aircraft

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Pakistan is a palm oil importer, so we could end up bartering as well. It wouldn't hurt is as it'd save $2bn+ in palm oil imports, it's just that the direct beneficiary wouldn't be PAC (unless it resells the palm oil in Pakistan directly).

It'll also keep PAC's production lines running throughout the 2020s.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Maybe we can troll the US by offering the palm oil for the AH-1Z

Dont forget F 16s. We need them in numbers+upgrades+modern weapons

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

It'll also keep PAC's production lines running throughout the 2020s.

IMHO ... we shouldn't stop the JF-17 at all. I understand there's a cost to maintaining infrastructure, and by keeping the JF-17 alive, we would need to set-up the FGFA somewhere else.

However, as a platform the JF-17 is perfectly fine for what it is, i.e., an affordable fleet-builder. If through Pr. Azm we make in-roads in engines, composites, avionics, weapons, etc, we should download that into future, next-gen JF-17 variants. Perhaps use it as a license to re-open the design and alter it enough so that it can function with the FGFA, while replacing all of the older JF-17s.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

IMHO ... we shouldn't stop the JF-17 at all. I understand there's a cost to maintaining infrastructure, and by keeping the JF-17 alive, we would need to set-up the FGFA somewhere else.

However, as a platform the JF-17 is perfectly fine for what it is, i.e., an affordable fleet-builder. If through Pr. Azm we make in-roads in engines, composites, avionics, weapons, etc, we should download that into future, next-gen JF-17 variants. Perhaps use it as a license to re-open the design and alter it enough so that it can function with the FGFA, while replacing all of the older JF-17s.

I imagine (if I am allowed to imagine) that one day all of Pakistani light-weight fighter requirements will be fulfilled by the JF-17 Thunders only.

I mean, in the 2040s, 2050s, 2060s, and so on, we are still going to need light-weight fighters. If we just keep improving this beautiful platform, we can continue producing them for decades into the future Insha'Allah.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I imagine (if I am allowed to imagine) that one day all of Pakistani light-weight fighter requirements will be fulfilled by the JF-17 Thunders only.

I mean, in the 2040s, 2050s, 2060s, and so on, we are still going to need light-weight fighters. If we just keep improving this beautiful platform, we can continue producing them for decades into the future Insha'Allah.

Yep.

To me, the JF-17 is the perfect defensive wall, provided we procure them in sufficient numbers and continually add next-generation subsystems to them. The next-tier would be our strike element, for which we rely on the FGFA and, ideally, long-range attack drones.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Instead of re-building Mirages etc ... would it be better to make the change to the JF-17 and convert it into a delta wing, similar to what the F-16XL concept was. That is, no increasing the size of the aircraft itself or replacing the engines ... in fact keeping as much of the original aircraft intact as possible to keep costs down. But it might solve some of the issues around carrying more A-G weaponry, more fuel, and a longer landing gear to allow for better ground clearance.
Even if its not plausible, would be an interesting experiment from PAC to learn from. But might be a waste of $$ if its not practical

 

[MastanKhan]

Instead of re-building Mirages etc ... would it be better to make the change to the JF-17 and convert it into a delta wing, similar to what the F-16XL concept was. That is, no increasing the size of the aircraft itself or replacing the engines ... in fact keeping as much of the original aircraft intact as possible to keep costs down. But it might solve some of the issues around carrying more A-G weaponry, more fuel, and a longer landing gear to allow for better ground clearance.
Even if its not plausible, would be an interesting experiment from PAC to learn from. But might be a waste of $$ if its not practical

Hi,

The best solution is to go the way Grippen NG went---. Pick up a fuel friendly european engine---because by this time we have achieved our goal of a competent EW package---.

A successful design on an aircraft must never be changed---.

Rule # 1---If it is not broken--do not fix it---.

Rule # 2---Refer to rule # 1.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Right now their is money(market share) to be had in aviation industry. Whether you are selling a combat or civil airframe. Whether you are an air force or an airline. After quite a few decades aviation is seeing an uptic. From airframes to the somewhat controversial "pilot shortage".

Countries like Gulf, Bangladesh, Us, Canada, Turkey and China(big time cuz of massive investments in huge airports and fleet building).

I've already talked about potential for PAC to make a regional turboprop/jet.

Lately I've been thinking If PAC shows some initiave/enthusiasm it could even come up with a small affordable private jet akin to the Honda jet.

Or

They could also make a small General aviation aircraft as well for aspiring pilots. Right now the Cessan C172s and even older C152s are selling like hot cakes. Airframes are seeing too many flight hours and flight schools just can't get enought of em in time owing in part to the pilot shortage and the pilot pipeline that had been dwindling for a while especially in NA markets.

Well there are long term support contracts to be had as well. It'd be interesting if PAC sets up its own MRO facility there, uses it for a few years, and then flips it for a profit to a local investor.


The PAF wants cash flow so that it can support Project Azm and the JF-17. So, if the deal with Malaysia comes down to bartering, then PAC will become a palm oil seller in Pakistan (to get said cash). Not insane because LM and Boeing had to do the same thing 20-30 years ago.

Maybe we can troll the US by offering the palm oil for the AH-1Z

Halfway through AZM PAF should start thinking what the future holds for JF17.

More block with more/better subsystems
A twin engine F/18 like replacement for JF17
A potential VTOL that can be launched and retrieved from LHDs(a concept I talked about a few years ago but was brushed off by usual dismissive lot) USMC is toting with the idea.
A semi stealth JF17

That would be a good time to start conceptualizing how what role should a medium multi role play vis a vis AZM FGFA.

 

[Akh1112]

Instead of re-building Mirages etc ... would it be better to make the change to the JF-17 and convert it into a delta wing, similar to what the F-16XL concept was. That is, no increasing the size of the aircraft itself or replacing the engines ... in fact keeping as much of the original aircraft intact as possible to keep costs down. But it might solve some of the issues around carrying more A-G weaponry, more fuel, and a longer landing gear to allow for better ground clearance.
Even if its not plausible, would be an interesting experiment from PAC to learn from. But might be a waste of $$ if its not practical

It sounds easy and cheap when put like that, however, its not that simple. It would require an airframe redesign, and then have to be re certified and retested etc, ensuring its structurally and aerodynamically safe and whatnot. Besides, i dont really see how a delta could improve the JF17 so much that the cost is worth it. Dual racks with strengthened wings (which i assume is the reason for the JF17's inability to use them atm, wings not being able to support the weight) is the way to go

 

[GriffinsRule]

It sounds easy and cheap when put like that, however, its not that simple. It would require an airframe redesign, and then have to be re certified and retested etc, ensuring its structurally and aerodynamically safe and whatnot. Besides, i dont really see how a delta could improve the JF17 so much that the cost is worth it. Dual racks with strengthened wings (which i assume is the reason for the JF17's inability to use them atm, wings not being able to support the weight) is the way to go

Strengthened wings wont help with range or carrying more weapons on greater number of pylons.

 

[krash]

Dual racks with strengthened wings (which i assume is the reason for the JF17's inability to use them atm, wings not being able to support the weight) is the way to go

That's unlikely to be the case. The JF-17 is reportedly cleared to carry the LS-6 on stations 2 & 6, same stations where the SD-10 dual racks would be carried. The LS-6 is 500kg while two SD-10s would be around 360kg (180kg each).

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

I have no knowledge of any such road map.

A lot depends on Block 3 and the progress of project AZM. If everything goes smoothly with our 5th generation plans, then we will not be needing Block 4's or 5's. The 5th generation era is attaining maturity and it is the need of the hour.

The best JF-17 can pull off is 4++ gen characteristics (provided we incorporate advanced systems). Again, requires money and alot of R&D breakthroughs if it has to be indigenous. Off the shelf 4++ gen systems are too expensive and will defeat the JF-17s USP of cost effectiveness.

Unless Azm is a heavy and JF is the light. Like the SU and MiG or the F16 and F15. Thus block 4s and 5s would be logical

 

[khanasifm]

That's unlikely to be the case. The JF-17 is reportedly cleared to carry the LS-6 on stations 2 & 6, same stations where the SD-10 dual racks would be carried. The LS-6 is 500kg while two SD-10s would be around 360kg (180kg each).

Station 2 and 6 must be cleared for 600-650 kg as adding pylon Weight plus also the bomb is 500 kg but then the glide kit is Another 30-60 kg so it’s safe to say 500 kg class load which ranges from 500 kg for dumb bombs to 530-560 kg for guided /glide kit

Let’s see if 2 and 6 got up rated to take 750-800 kg ie three 250 kg types or still remained at same

It is stated block three will also introduce new weapons looking for small dia class weapons ~ 4/6 on each ??

 

[BanglarBagh]

This youtuber claims that the first export customer of JF-17 Blk3 will be BAF. I find this hard to believe! Can anyone shed some light into this matter?

It's very difficult to imagine this deal happening while Sheikh Hasina is in power. Also, I think Pakistan will be very very reluctant to sell their most prized fighter to BD as our Govt. has really close ties with India. Nonetheless, I would very much like to know any info or opinion of the experts here. Thanks!!!

 

[graphican]

Rule # 1---If it is not broken--do not fix it---.
Rule # 2---Refer to rule # 1.

This is principle of sustainability. To grow, you still improve what is not broken.