Export bids for JF-17 Thunder Multirole Lightweight Fighter Aircraft

[StormBreaker]

The realistic assessment entails that Israel and Egypt are not going to war anytime soon. Unless a very critical event takes place (like the killing of Qud's commander).

Hence selling JF-17s to Egypt poses no immediate threat when it comes to the compromise of technology. What PAC needs right now is 'numbers'. PAC is now producing last planned block of JF-17. If we do not get export orders then we will have to close down AMF until Project AZM reaches production stage or either Block 4 becomes reality.

Furthermore, Mirage Rebuild Factory will be nearing its end soon with no Mirages to rebuild. Hence what PAC needs right now is meat to sustain itself. And it will Inshallah.

Closing down AMF post Block 3 will result in a loss of technically highly skilled labour/Officers, even for some short span of years...

These skilled people can be invested either in a new block or maybe sent to other JV companies to learn even more as well as share their knowledge in turn to get a product for PAF.

If PAC/PAF really decides to end Post block 3 then they should definitely seek more Indigenous UAV programs as well as at the same time, make more universities throughout the country and send their workers to teach those universities in order to produce more skilled people for this industry.

As for MRF, bro, weren’t we getting those Egyptian mirages ? Coz they will come with a lot of work for MRF for at least another 6 years

 

[krash]

The realistic assessment entails that Israel and Egypt are not going to war anytime soon. Unless a very critical event takes place (like the killing of Qud's commander).

Hence selling JF-17s to Egypt poses no immediate threat when it comes to the compromise of technology. What PAC needs right now is 'numbers'. PAC is now producing last planned block of JF-17. If we do not get export orders then we will have to close down AMF until Project AZM reaches production stage or either Block 4 becomes reality.

Furthermore, Mirage Rebuild Factory will be nearing its end soon with no Mirages to rebuild. Hence what PAC needs right now is meat to sustain itself. And it will Inshallah.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember seeing an official slide with the block-wise future road map for the JF-17. I remember it showed plans at least till Block 5.

I tried finding the slide without success, I'd really appreciate it if someone who has it could share it.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember seeing an official slide with the block-wise future road map for the JF-17. I remember it showed plans at least till Block 5.

I tried finding the slide without success, I'd really appreciate it if someone who has it could share it.

IMO If we manage to export a healthy numbers of JF-17 then we might see older blocks otherwise its development will become difficult due to lack of funds.

 

[airomerix]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember seeing an official slide with the block-wise future road map for the JF-17. I remember it showed plans at least till Block 5.

I tried finding the slide without success, I'd really appreciate it if someone who has it could share it.

I have no knowledge of any such road map.

A lot depends on Block 3 and the progress of project AZM. If everything goes smoothly with our 5th generation plans, then we will not be needing Block 4's or 5's. The 5th generation era is attaining maturity and it is the need of the hour.

The best JF-17 can pull off is 4++ gen characteristics (provided we incorporate advanced systems). Again, requires money and alot of R&D breakthroughs if it has to be indigenous. Off the shelf 4++ gen systems are too expensive and will defeat the JF-17s USP of cost effectiveness.

 

[HRK]

I remember seeing an official slide with the block-wise future road map for the JF-17.

you are probably recalling the slide shown at 2:00 min in below attached video and mixing it up with blk-IV and blk-V which will become reality only if PAF ordered more blocks of JF-17 which I also believe would happen before the end of production of JF-17 blk-III, but as of now PAF ordered only for 3 blocks ....

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I have no knowledge of any such road map.

A lot depends on Block 3 and the progress of project AZM. If everything goes smoothly with our 5th generation plans, then we will not be needing Block 4's or 5's. The 5th generation era is attaining maturity and it is the need of the hour.

The best JF-17 can pull off is 4++ gen characteristics (provided we incorporate advanced systems). Again, requires money and alot of R&D breakthroughs if it has to be indigenous. Off the shelf 4++ gen systems are too expensive and will defeat the JF-17s USP of cost effectiveness.

You're the third person to say AZM is on the fast-track. The engineers who worked on the Saab 2000 repair work said (on PTV) that it'd take "a decade" to reach the next gen fighter -- this was in 2017.

But what confuses me is that the current ASR of AZM is similar to that of the TF-X (which the PAF is interested in). Basically, twin-engine. So, is the PAF looking at a future of just medium/heavy jets, or will the ASR of AZM change if the PAF signs onto TF-X (i.e. go from twin engine to single engine).

 

[Nomad40]

You're the third person to say AZM is on the fast-track. The engineers who worked on the Saab 2000 repair work said (on PTV) that it'd take "a decade" to reach the next gen fighter -- this was in 2017.

But what confuses me is that the current ASR of AZM is similar to that of the TF-X (which the PAF is interested in). Basically, twin-engine. So, is the PAF looking at a future of just medium/heavy jets, or will the ASR of AZM change if the PAF signs onto TF-X (i.e. go from twin engine to single engine).

I mentioned in the jf-17 thread that AZM is at least a decade late so PAF should not be fixated on it, we dont need to make our stealth fighter from scratch we live in a globalized world and should out source and shake hands to develop integrate a better system on an existing stealth plane. OR JUST GET F35 for F@#$ sake.

 

[jupiter2007]

Closing down AMF post Block 3 will result in a loss of technically highly skilled labour/Officers, even for some short span of years...

These skilled people can be invested either in a new block or maybe sent to other JV companies to learn even more as well as share their knowledge in turn to get a product for PAF.

If PAC/PAF really decides to end Post block 3 then they should definitely seek more Indigenous UAV programs as well as at the same time, make more universities throughout the country and send their workers to teach those universities in order to produce more skilled people for this industry.

As for MRF, bro, weren’t we getting those Egyptian mirages ? Coz they will come with a lot of work for MRF for at least another 6 years

If MRF will be busy for another 6 years then mirage will be flying for another 10+ years.

I mentioned in the jf-17 thread that AZM is at least a decade late so PAF should not be fixated on it, we dont need to make our stealth fighter from scratch we live in a globalized world and should out source and shake hands to develop integrate a better system on an existing stealth plane. OR JUST GET F35 for F@#$ sake.

Keep dreaming about F-35.

There is no reason to re-invest the wheel. I am 100% sure that AZM will be build with the help of China and Turkey.

 

[Akh1112]

I mentioned in the jf-17 thread that AZM is at least a decade late so PAF should not be fixated on it, we dont need to make our stealth fighter from scratch we live in a globalized world and should out source and shake hands to develop integrate a better system on an existing stealth plane. OR JUST GET F35 for F@#$ sake.

We cant just go and ask papa US for the F-35. There is no chance that we could ever get our hands on the F-35, even if we had the money.

 

[pkd]

Pakistan's JF - 17 Thunder Fighter Jet in race for $8.61 billion International Arms deal

ISLAMABAD - Pakistan Aeronautical Complex’s JF-17 is in the race to replace Royal Malaysian Air Force’s (RMAF) light combat aircraft/fighter lead-in trainer (LCA/FLIT) jets including BAE Systems Hawk and Aeromacchi MB339 trainers, and its Mikoyan MiG-29 fighters.

The 8 fighter jets shortlisted based on the requirements include:

- PAC/AVIC JF-17 Thunder - AVIC L-15A/B - Saab JAS-39 Gripen - KAI FA-50 Fighting Eagle - Aero Vodochody L-39NG - Yakovlev Yak-130 - Leonardo M346 - HAL Tejas

According to the requirements, the RMAF is looking for up to 36 multi-mission and cost-effective aircraft with an option to add another 26. It is expected that RMAF could be looking to acquire fighter jets worth RM 36 billion ($8.61 billion) over the next 10 years.

The common denominator in its requirements is the ability to offer advanced jet training and ground-to-air and air-to-air operations.

PAC is a strong candidate in the competition, however, it faces massive competition from China’s L-15A/B as well as from Korea’s FA-50 Fighting Eagle and Saab JAS-39 Gripen.

In recent times, Pakistan has been making strides to export JF-17s to Malaysia and Azerbaijan after successful deals with Nigeria and Myanmar. The forte for PAC’s JF-17 is that it is battle-tested and offers low upfront and maintenance costs.

The counter-trade options are not yet known and each of the suppliers is likely to come up with lucrative offers. It remains to be seen whether Pakistan’s close friend Malaysia goes for JF-17 or any other platform.


https://timesofislamabad.com/13-Jan-2020/pakistan-s-jf-17-thunder-fighter-jet-in-race-for-8-61-billion-international-arms-deal

 

[Nomad40]

We cant just go and ask papa US for the F-35. There is no chance that we could ever get our hands on the F-35, even if we had the money.

it is up to trump honestly, the chances are very slim but orange can be convinced.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Malaysia lost it Palmoil market in GanguDaesh for support of PakKashmiris.... if KL wishes to settle payments in Palmoil for Thunders we must make this deal without reserve!

Pakistan is a palm oil importer, so we could end up bartering as well. It wouldn't hurt is as it'd save $2bn+ in palm oil imports, it's just that the direct beneficiary wouldn't be PAC (unless it resells the palm oil in Pakistan directly).

 

[Code_Geass]

Does it really matter selling 36 jets will be a coup for us

Pakistan is a palm oil importer, so we could end up bartering as well. It wouldn't hurt is as it'd save $2bn+ in palm oil imports, it's just that the direct beneficiary wouldn't be PAC (unless it resells the palm oil in Pakistan directly).

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

On the surface, you are correct.

However, even in short term...with Malaysian AF flying thunders... more market capture will enlighten the mood of PAC!

Also, this will help boos our reserves and curb inflation a bit..Good for Pakistan!

Well there are long term support contracts to be had as well. It'd be interesting if PAC sets up its own MRO facility there, uses it for a few years, and then flips it for a profit to a local investor.

Does it really matter selling 36 jets will be a coup for us

The PAF wants cash flow so that it can support Project Azm and the JF-17. So, if the deal with Malaysia comes down to bartering, then PAC will become a palm oil seller in Pakistan (to get said cash). Not insane because LM and Boeing had to do the same thing 20-30 years ago.

Maybe we can troll the US by offering the palm oil for the AH-1Z

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Indeed.

If we forget for a moment it is Thunder or PAC but look at the possibilities from both Industrialism and ForeignPolicy perspective... we must plan/act for the Life Cycle of each and everything...

Anyone buy Thunders is going to get wedded to PAC for at least 20 years... think about training of pilots to techz... also our own munitions from WeaponsComplex...

Furthermore, it shall provide employment to our YoungPaks... we need to be agressive in selling weapons/services... and take a long term view of things...

If you don't mind... we need to grow up and start behaving like a State that Means Business and Conducts Business.

Yep. It takes some ingenuity, but we can make barter and countertrade work. This as well as layaway cash arrangements will give us a leg up in low-income or cash strapped markets.