Export bids for JF-17 Thunder Multirole Lightweight Fighter Aircraft

[SBD-3]

Even if we don't have a two seat version of JF-17s, for training it can be compensated by getting an advanced jet trainer, L-15 kind of, having full digital FBW, HOTAS etc things, which can fully utilized for training pilots at OCU level before sending them to JF-17s, till any AJT is not procured, we can use the twin seat F-16s to train pilots and send them to JF-17s.

But if twin seat JF-17 is not a feasible option, then 2 Sqd strength L-15 kind of AJT would be able to do the job.

I was also a bit surprised when I heard that PAF wants to develop a twin seat Dedicated attack version.which i thought was rather unnecessary given the expected FC-20 and Block 52. There were two things that i could think of . 1) a stop gap untill the FC-20 arrives 2)advanced training....but I heard that PAF had finally decided to fund the version (which could be the reason IMO for increase in the share of PAF from 50&#37. Anyways I havent heard anything since then...If you can weed out this confusion...I ll be thankful.

 

[Babur Han]

There will likely be a two-seat JF-17, it was confirmed by PAF itself on numerous occasions all within the last couple years. Not only would it be used for OCU, but potentially other important roles as well.

For example, there is scope for the twin-seat in EW roles - similar to the EA-18G Growler. My understanding is that the most significant 'change' would be the use of a special full-spectrum EW pod similar to AN/ALQ-99. Obviously we're not talking about something of the same standard or quality, but the concept can definitely be explored. Existing relations with companies from Turkey, China, Italy, France, etc, should be exploited in this regard. The 'JF-17EW' would give PAF tremendous flexibility in its operations by (1) ensuring a higher number of EW and combat aircraft available, (2) allow the use of EW in more dangerous zones as 'JF-17EW' can be equipped with AAM/ARM. Plus absorbing losses of JF-17 will not be as significant as say DA-20.

Turkish Companies like Aselsan and Mikes have gained experience in Development of Electronic Warfare/Jammer Equipment, they can provide ECM, RWR, MWS and Chaff/Flare Dispenser for JF-17. What a JF-17EW Variant would need is a Jamming Pod, as far I know until Today Aselsan have not Developed a Jamming Pod for Fighters. Ask Cabatli on this Issue, know more about such Projects.

 

[Quwa]

Turkish Companies like Aselsan and Mikes have gained experience in Development of Electronic Warfare/Jammer Equipment, they can provide ECM, RWR, MWS and Chaff/Flare Dispenser for JF-17. What a JF-17EW Variant would need is a Jamming Pod, as far I know until Today Aselsan have not Developed a Jamming Pod for Fighters. Ask Cabatli on this Issue, know more about such Projects.

Since that is the case, then it can be an interesting road to study between Aselsan and PAC.

 

[Jigs]

Mikes (Aselsan) AN/ALQ-178V3/V5 passive embedded SPEWS would be a nice touch to the JF-17. Our 2020 Terminators have them.

 

[SBD-3]

Since that is the case, then it can be an interesting road to study between Aselsan and PAC.

but nabil posted that PAC is already developing its own EW suit for both external and internal mounting for JFT.....

 

[Babur Han]

Mikes (Aselsan) AN/ALQ-178V3/V5 passive embedded SPEWS would be a nice touch to the JF-17. Our 2020 Terminators have them.

The AN/ALQ-178V3/V5 ECM Suites were only built in License in Turkey and Turkey have the Right to Write the own Software for these ECM Systemems. I doubt that Turkey can sell AN/ALQ-178V3/V5 to any Country without US Approval.

 

[Jigs]

The AN/ALQ-178V3/V5 ECM Suites were only built in License in Turkey and Turkey have the Right to Write the own Software for these ECM Systemems. I doubt that Turkey can sell AN/ALQ-178V3/V5 to any Country without US Approval.

I am sure we could cooperate with them to produce something suitable. We can export the Aselpod right ? Would be a great way to integrate advanced A2G capabilities on the thunder.

 

[graphican]

Pakistan should send somebody to China to teach airplane paintjobs.

To teach or to learn? If you send somebody, you are most likely to learn something from them.

 

[Babur Han]

I am sure we could cooperate with them to produce something suitable. We can export the Aselpod right ? Would be a great way to integrate advanced A2G capabilities on the thunder.

I see no Problem by exporting Aselpod, it's an indigenous Development with no foreign input.

 

[Usama86]

People here are showing concern on how Pakistan will balance its own needs and the export orders for JF-17. Given that at full strength PAC will manufacture 24 planes a year, it will take another 6 odd years to get to the 150 mark and it is also said that China will also manufacture some planes for PAF to get the job done quicker.
I was wondering and its only speculation on my part that maybe China will produce the export version of JF-17, PAF markets the product and China manufactures it. to back this up i think Chinese AF is not going to induct JF 17 instead China will only export it, this makes sense because they will have a lot of spare capacity to produce the plan. Given that PAF will also work on newer blocks of JF 17, so suppose if someone places an order in the next 6 months to a year there is no chance Pakistan will be able to fulfill it in the next 5-6 years.

 

[Dazzler]

Coping with exports will not be such an issue as at least 7 production lines are active in both China and Pakistan (4+3). PAC is churning out 4 per month (this is verified by AFM as well) and China should be producing around 6 per month (estimate). 10 aircraft a month is not a small number by any means. Remember, in case of export order, Chinese production lines have the capability to work at optimum level as they have been exporting fighters for the last 50+ years. So far, Egypt is willing for a license manufacturing and Azerbaijan, Zimbabwe are going for moderate numbers. The price offered for Egyptians is between 18-20 mil $ having a configuration similar to PAF ones.

PAC is working on EW as well as other avionics of which, four are being integrated right now and rest will follow in a year or two. Current Chinese EW is a robust system and as per one source, better than ALQ-131 in terms of capability and jamming. JFT's MAWS has no analogues in PAF as of now apart of the blk 52 one (AIDEWS) which is ahead off course.

Aselpod is unlikely to be integrated on JFT as basic technology is American and is produced under license in Turkey so Yanks will not allow but if they do, it should be on par or slightly less than blk 52 AIDEWS

 

[Nishan_101]

I think that BAF and Sirilankan Air Force will be the good buyers and they might buy about 150-200 and 100-150 respectively. Where as maymar and other east asian countries are looking to it and they might negotiating in back doors.

 

[Quwa]

Aselpod is unlikely to be integrated on JFT as basic technology is American and is produced under license in Turkey so Yanks will not allow but if they do, it should be on par or slightly less than blk 52 AIDEWS

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that Aselpod was separate from Turkey's license produced EW tech.

 

[fatman17]

I think that BAF and Sirilankan Air Force will be the good buyers and they might buy about 150-200 and 100-150 respectively. Where as maymar and other east asian countries are looking to it and they might negotiating in back doors.

i am sorry but where will they park these a/c!!! - pls be realistic!

 

[Sinnerman108]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nishan_101 View Post
I think that BAF and Sirilankan Air Force will be the good buyers and they might buy about 150-200 and 100-150 respectively. Where as maymar and other east asian countries are looking to it and they might negotiating in back doors.
i am sorry but where will they park these a/c!!! - pls be realistic!

Mr Fatman is correct,
all the stuff we are getting to hear about exporting here and exporting there is really hard to believe.

Just because an aircraft is cheap does not imply there will be countries lining up to buy them.

just like it's the buyer's prerogative to choose the product, it is seller's prerogative to choose a customer.

there are some customers who you know will make life miserable and you will loose money supporting them.

to support a deal you need the governments and the associated departments to be involved apart from the Air force it self.

I can talk from experience that there is a real disjoint when it comes to our air force and the associated government departments.

PAF is learning to do business, and there will be some lessons.

For all foreseeable future I can predict all sale activities will be led by Chineese and PAF will piggy back these initiatives