Exclusive: U.S. moves to cut Huawei off from global chip suppliers

[dbc]

Here is an interesting bit that says much about the PDF Chinese regarding intellectual dishonesty. There are two of their members who either have direct or indirect experience in the semicon industry, and yet they said nothing whenever their fellow Chinese said things that are patently false.

actually no, @Paul2 has tried to inject reality into the Chinese discourse on the subject.
Him and @FairAndUnbiased to a lesser extent.

 

[gambit]

actually no, @Paul2 has tried to inject reality into the Chinese discourse on the subject.
Him and @FairAndUnbiased to a lesser extent.

Actually, yes. All tepid 'corrections' from what I have seen. The one thing that practically terrifies the PDF Chinese is ostracization from the collective. Being accused or even insinuated that a Chinese is 'anti-China' is enough to bring the 'offender' into Party line.

 

[gambit]

https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/18/t...rs-from-huawei-after-new-u-s-export-controls/

Taiwanese Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., the world’s largest contract semiconductor maker, has stopped taking new orders from Huawei Technologies, one of its largest customers, according to the Nikkei Asian Review. The report said the decision was made to comply with new United States export controls, announced last Friday, that are meant to make it more difficult for Huawei to obtain chips produced using U.S. technology, including manufacturing equipment.

When I said earlier that Huawei execs are terrified, that was no exaggeration.

 

[Yaseen1]

china can easily copy such technology as they are not secret products and country like china can reverse engineer hardware containing such chips so at the end taiwan will lose more than china

https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/18/t...rs-from-huawei-after-new-u-s-export-controls/

Taiwanese Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., the world’s largest contract semiconductor maker, has stopped taking new orders from Huawei Technologies, one of its largest customers, according to the Nikkei Asian Review. The report said the decision was made to comply with new United States export controls, announced last Friday, that are meant to make it more difficult for Huawei to obtain chips produced using U.S. technology, including manufacturing equipment.

When I said earlier that Huawei execs are terrified, that was no exaggeration.

 

[F-22Raptor]

HONG KONG (AP) — The latest U.S. sanctions on Huawei threaten to devastate China’s first global tech competitor, escalating a feud with Beijing that could disrupt technology industries worldwide.

Huawei Technologies Ltd. is one of the biggest makers of smartphones and network equipment, but that $123 billion-a-year business is in jeopardy after Washington announced further restrictions on use of American technology by foreign companies that make its processor chips.

Huawei spent the past year scrambling to preserve its business after an earlier round of U.S. restrictions imposed last May cut off access to American components and software.


“Our business will inevitably be impacted,” Huawei’s chairman, Guo Ping, said at a conference Monday with industry analysts.

“In spite of that, the challenges over the past year have helped us develop a thicker skin, and we are confident about finding solutions soon,” Guo said.

The company said Monday that it would need some time to “understand the impact” of the latest restrictions.


The conflict is politically explosive because Huawei is more than just China’s most successful private company. It is a national champion among industries the ruling Communist Party is promoting in hopes of transforming China into a global competitor in profitable technologies.

On Monday, China’s Ministry of Commerce warned it will protect “the legitimate rights and interests of Chinese enterprises,” but gave no details of potential retaliation. Beijing has threatened in the past to issue an “unreliable entities list” that might restrict operations of American companies in China.

Friction over Huawei adds to a broader deterioration of U.S.-Chinese relations.

The two sides have declared a truce in a trade war, but arguments over the origin of the coronavirus pandemic that is roiling the global economy have raised worries that agreement might fall apart.

Huawei is at the center of the U.S.-Chinese conflict over Beijing’s technology ambitions, which Washington worries might erode American industrial leadership.

Huawei has few alternatives if Washington refuses to allow its suppliers to use U.S. technology. The company has developed some of its own chips but even the biggest non-U.S. manufacturers such as Taiwanese giant TSMC need American components or production equipment.

“Every electronics system that Huawei produces could be negatively impacted,” Jim Handy, semiconductor analyst for Objective Analysis, said in an email. “Most China-based alternatives haven’t yet been established.”

New curbs announced Friday are the third round of sanctions aimed at cutting off Huawei’s access to U.S. technology and markets.

In a statement, Huawei criticized the U.S. decision as “arbitrary and pernicious” and warned it will affect operation and maintenance of networks installed by the company in more than 170 countries.

“The U.S. government has intentionally turned its back on the interests of Huawei’s customers and consumers,” it said.

The statement said the decision “will damage the trust and collaboration within the global semiconductor industry,” harming other industries that depend on it.

The Trump administration says Huawei is a security risk, which the company denies, and is trying to persuade European and other allies to shun its technology for next-generation telecom networks.

Chinese officials accuse Washington of raising phony security concerns to hurt a rising competitor to American tech companies.

The potential impact extends far beyond Huawei. The company spends tens of billions of dollars a year on components and technology from U.S. and other suppliers, purchases that might be disrupted if output of smartphones and other products is blocked.

U.S. suppliers already have complained to Washington that restrictions imposed last May on Huawei’s access to American components and other technology will cost them billions of dollars in lost potential sales.

The company’s telecoms market in the U.S. evaporated after a congressional panel in 2012 labeled Huawei and its Chinese competitor ZTE Corp. security risks and told phone carriers to avoid them.

Last year’s sanctions require U.S. companies to obtain government permission to sell chips and other technology to Huawei. The company can keep using Google’s Android operating system on its smartphones but lost the ability to pre-install music, maps and other Google services customers expect on phones.

Huawei has launched its own smartphone operating system and is paying developers to create apps to run on it. But the company says sales have suffered.

Despite that, Huawei reported a 2019 profit of 62.7 billion yuan ($8.8 billion) and said total sales rose 19% over a year earlier.

The sanctions highlight Huawei’s reliance on technology suppliers despite having one of the world’s biggest corporate research and development budgets.

Huawei has its own semiconductor unit, HiSilicon, but needs manufacturers including TSMC to make the most advanced chips.

Beijing has spent the past two decades and billions of dollars to create a Chinese semiconductor industry. But its biggest producer, SMIC, can only make chips that are two generations behind TSMC.

“Huawei had already begun to shift some production from TSMC to SMIC, although SMIC cannot yet produce Huawei’s latest Kirin 980 chipset,” said Neil Thomas, a research associate at U.S. think tank Paulson Institute. “But SMIC can probably manufacture earlier-generation Huawei chipsets.”

Then-chairman Eric Xu warned in March that more U.S. pressure on Huawei might provoke Chinese retaliation that could disrupt its global industry.

Beijing will not “just stand by and watch Huawei be slaughtered,” Xu said. “The impact on the global industry would be astonishing.”

https://news.yahoo.com/u-restriction-chipmakers-deals-critical-052309322.html

 

[CrazyZ]

Now is not the time for a trade war. Hubert Hoover tried a trade war during the depression:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot–Hawley_Tariff_Act

Results were not good.

 

[F-22Raptor]

“The US government will have full global authority in interpreting what chip items Huawei will be able to access going forward,” China Renaissance said in a note published Monday.

That’s a big deal. Chips are critical for a huge swathe of Huawei’s products from its base stations required for 5G networks to its smartphones. Huawei designs semiconductors for its products via a division of the company called HiSilicon. But the actual manufacturing of those chips is done by Taiwan’s TSMC, one of the companies that stands to be most affected by the new U.S. rules. TSMC uses American-made equipment to manufacture those chips.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/18/huawei-faces-big-blow-from-new-us-rules-to-cut-off-chips.html

 

[Indos]

This will only hurt US chip maker. Most phone maker are Chinese anyway.

 

[kankan326]

Big loss for Huawei in short term. Big loss for USA in long term

 

[Song Hong]

This is tyranny.

The next time US will threaten to cutoff Siemens, Thales, Ericsson, using the same pretext, as per on Huawei.

The real reason is US is now a sore loser.

 

[Paul2]

You might find what I said about the renegade province and the other East Asian countries surprising, but consider what China is accomplishing given its stage of development. Japan, Korea, and Taiwan are sprightly 3 cylinder engines, built pretty well, quick off the line and yet ecologically friendly. China is a monster of a quad-turboed V16 but with 12 of the cylinders busted. What terrifies everyone about Xi Jinping is that he's dead set on fixing those broken cylinders if it's the last thing he does. Once the repairs are finished, what hope do they have? What hope does anyone have against a fifth of humanity united under a technologically hyper-advanced and exquisitely governed superstate?

The logic basis is correct, the conclusion is wrong. Xi has no focus on foreign matters whatsoever. I heard, and spoke with many officials who were one handshake away from central committee members.

China needs trade and cooperation with at least SOME rich countries in order to continue to progress. Yes, it also works in China's interest to expand ties with the developing world, but if it is shut out of rich markets and access to their products, then its development will be severely hindered. The only way China can get out of that rut is to leapfrog all other nations technologically but if its economic engine is shut down, which will happen if it is shut out of trade with wealthy economies, then it will run out of fuel to push its technological progress.

Now tell this to people who busted our international relationships overnight.

No bets are off, what will actually happen is that Japanese, Korean, and Taiwanese companies will do their best to cut the US out of their supply chains so they can continue to do business with China.

This is what I did bet myself before, but now circumstances are different. With Zhongnanhai doing all effort do sabotage what our diplomatic corps been doing, even that bet is off.

 

[Han Patriot]

A

The logic basis is correct, the conclusion is wrong. Xi has no focus on foreign matters whatsoever. I heard, and spoke with many officials who were one handshake away from central committee members.


Now tell this to people who busted our international relationships overnight.


This is what I did bet myself before, but now circumstances are different. With Zhongnanhai doing all effort do sabotage what our diplomatic corps been doing, even that bet is off.

Paul, chill, money talks. The US is fcked big time, their economy is in shits, they need us to buy em beans. The signs are there, just imagine this, Trump is pissed as fck, we technically killed 90k Americans without firing a single bullet, whacked their economy back to 2008 levels, created the worst unemployment since the depression around 30 to 40 mil unemployed. And yet he is still

1) Trading with China?
2) Keeping the phase 1 trade deal
3) Only containing Huawei?
4) Insist on not defaulting?

Come on man, if I were him I would totally ban All trade with China and default the shit out of China. I would be one step from nuking China. If you look at all the signs, US clearly wants to continue trading while wanting to reduce Chinese tech dominance. What will happen? Huawei will weaken of course, but technologically? They would still invest in 6G and BEYOND. China will have 10-15 % unemployment, reduced MNC capacities for diversification reasons but still a dominant manufacturer, but you will see the rise of local champions due to this tech embargo, local companies will fill the niche and grow. US will not decouple they can't afford too. If they decouple a new pole will emerge. The hundreds of billions invested will go to waste.

Remember what they said about the trade war in 2018? ITS BEEN 2 YEARS AND ONE EPIDEMIC. We are still alive and thriving, our economy is restarting so well, I am here, I see the real thing. China is confident that we haven't even reduced interest rates or print trillions, US is printing trillions and reducing rates to zero, that itself shows how friggin desperate they are. Our banks are state owned, we can postpone loan repayment with no interest if someone get unemployed, workers can bunker down in their village for years almost free of cost. CAN US DO THE SAME? Our consumers are majority earn, save and spend type, not borrow to spend type. One month if inactivity nearly crippled the US food stamp system. China was under lockdown for almost 3 months, you see ppl starving!? Due to histourical reasons, the typical Chinese save for rainy days, the only big debt is mortgage which the goverment can easily freeze in times of crisis.

 

[Han Patriot]

“The US government will have full global authority in interpreting what chip items Huawei will be able to access going forward,” China Renaissance said in a note published Monday.

That’s a big deal. Chips are critical for a huge swathe of Huawei’s products from its base stations required for 5G networks to its smartphones. Huawei designs semiconductors for its products via a division of the company called HiSilicon. But the actual manufacturing of those chips is done by Taiwan’s TSMC, one of the companies that stands to be most affected by the new U.S. rules. TSMC uses American-made equipment to manufacture those chips.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/18/huawei-faces-big-blow-from-new-us-rules-to-cut-off-chips.html

chill, money talks. The US is fcked big time, their economy is in shits, they need us to buy em beans. The signs are there, just imagine this, Trump is pissed as fck, we technically killed 90k Americans without firing a single bullet, whacked their economy back to 2008 levels, created the worst unemployment since the depression around 30 to 40 mil unemployed. And yet he is still

1) Trading with China?
2) Keeping the phase 1 trade deal
3) Only containing Huawei?
4) Insist on not defaulting?

Come on man, if I were him I would totally ban All trade with China and default the shit out of China. I would be one step from nuking China. If you look at all the signs, US clearly wants to continue trading while wanting to reduce Chinese tech dominance. What will happen? Huawei will weaken of course, but technologically? They would still invest in 6G and BEYOND. China will have 10-15 % unemployment, reduced MNC capacities for diversification reasons but still a dominant manufacturer, but you will see the rise of local champions due to this tech embargo, local companies will fill the niche and grow. US will not decouple they can't afford too. If they decouple a new pole will emerge. The hundreds of billions invested will go to waste.

Remember what they said about the trade war in 2018? ITS BEEN 2 YEARS AND ONE EPIDEMIC. We are still alive and thriving, our economy is restarting so well, I am here, I see the real thing. China is confident that we haven't even reduced interest rates or print trillions, US is printing trillions and reducing rates to zero, that itself shows how friggin desperate they are. Our banks are state owned, we can postpone loan repayment with no interest if someone get unemployed, workers can bunker down in their village for years almost free of cost. CAN US DO THE SAME? Our consumers are majority earn, save and spend type, not borrow to spend type. One month if inactivity nearly crippled the US food stamp system. China was under lockdown for almost 3 months, you see ppl starving!? Due to histourical reasons, the typical Chinese save for rainy days, the only big debt is mortgage which the goverment can easily freeze in times of crisis.

 

[Paul2]

If we take Moore's law of halving the number of atoms every two years, from the current production of 35 Si atoms we have a little more than a decade to reach the ultimate physical limit. This will signal the ultimate development of the silicon semiconductor and no one will be able to surpass that limit.

The smallest part of the device is the gate, and this is what really matters. Gate sizes froze at around 30-35nm for a long time. What has been shrinking the most for the past decade were not the devices, but the amount of free space in between them.

This is not unusual in technology, we have had radios for more than a century yet no one has surpassed the fundamental limit of the speed of light in transmitting radio waves! Of course radios today are far more sophisticated than they were 100 years ago, but in our analogy that would be increased sophistication in chip design, not smaller feature sizes.

A correct observation. The Nyquist limit puts a hard limit on how much data you can transfer on a given wavelength in a singular spatial path, but we've been solidly beating both Nyquist, and the noise floor limits for 2 decades now.

There is a long, long way forward for semiconductor manufacturing still left. We may not beat the single atom density limit, but we can sure do something about continuing increasing effective density despite of it.

test is a pretty low value added part and quite far removed from front end processes.

Test is of paramount importance, second to inline meteorology for process improvement.

In other words, without test, and metrology, you are trying to do a brain surgery while blind, and can only judge the success is the patient lives after.

 

[Han Patriot]

The smallest part of the device is the gate, and this is what really matters. Gate sizes froze at around 30-35nm for a long time. What has been shrinking the most for the past decade were not the devices, but the amount of free space in between them.

A correct observation. The Nyquist limit puts a hard limit on how much data you can transfer on a given wavelength in a singular spatial path, but we've been solidly beating both Nyquist, and the noise floor limits for 2 decades now.

There is a long, long way forward for semiconductor manufacturing still left. We may not beat the single atom density limit, but we can sure do something about continuing increasing effective density despite of it.


Test is of paramount importance, second to inline meteorology for process improvement.

In other words, without test, and metrology, you are trying to do a brain surgery while blind, and can only judge the success is the patient lives after.

Test us the least complex of semiconductor chain bro.