Examining the impact of JF-17 Block 3 , Capability Enhancements for PAF

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well to be honest to claim that Pakistan does not have a mature aviation industry is not correct

Example:
1) PIA has been servicing Large aircrafts since 60's/70's

2) Kamra Aeronutical Complex, has been Overhauling and remanufacturing key parts of Mirage craft and doing every kind of imaginable modifications (90's , 00's, Present)

a) Structrual modifications
b) Wings
c) Tails
d) Engine components​

3) Kamra Aeronautical Complex , has also been involved in the Design of JF17 Thunder and manufacturing of Thunder Previously they have also worked on K-8 and Super Mushak

4) We also manufacture Radars under licence for aircrafts

5) We have experience with all the aircraft component design , wiring and electronics

So what else do you consider as signs of a Aeronutic company or Aircraft design company?


It all comes down to Strategic Goals

1) If our Top brass sees the importance of Twin Engine solution I am sure they will authorize investigation into Twin Engine Modficiation

2) If our Scientist / Air chief sees value in examing usage of Delta Wing Thunder it might happen


The KAMRA team can deliver that much we know 100%


Now on other hand , if we are targeting a Stealth / Twin engine bird , then I would not see a push for Thunder IV. We might just Transition to Stealth Twin Engine Bird directly

 

[Ultima Thule]

Well to be honest to claim that Pakistan does not have a mature aviation industry is not correct

Example:
1) PIA has been servicing Large aircrafts since 60's/70's

2) Kamra Aeronutical Complex, has been Overhauling and remanufacturing key parts of Mirage craft and doing every kind of imaginable modifications

a) Structrual modifications
b) Wings
c) Tails
d) Engine components​

3) Kamra Aeronautical Complex , has also been involved in the Design of JF17 Thunder and manufacturing of Thunder Previously they have also worked on K-8 and Super Mushak

4) We also manufacture Radars under licence for aircrafts

5) We have experience with all the aircraft component design , wiring and electronics

So what else do you consider as signs of a Aeronutic company or Aircraft design company?


It all comes down to Strategic Goals

1) If our Top brass sees the importance of Twin Engine solution I am sure they will authorize investigation into Twin Engine Modficiation

2) If our Scientist / Air chief sees value in examing usage of Delta Wing Thunder it might happen


The KAMRA team can deliver that much we know 100%


Now on other hand , if we are targeting a Stealth / Twin engine bird , then I would not see a push for Thunder IV

@AZADPAKISTAN2009 you're clueless sir. We don't have research & development facilities on par with Indian HAL & DRDO let alone rest of the world

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

If we don't have then make it, who is stopping to order items from China order it
we got whole industrial complex in Karachi vacant where steeles mills is not running

Build it next to steeles mills get the steel and prototype away, you make mistake with model put it back in burner and smelt it back to new prototype

If we don't have research and development then where are we coming up with

a) Zarb Missile
b) Herba Missile
c) Ababeel
d) Avionics upgrade for Mirage
e) Avionics research for JF17 Thunder

Not coming warm and fuzzzy from toaster

In term of research wing , we do need to improve the funding if that is what is holding us back, with all the experience with Delta Wing parts for Mirage really don't see a Delta Design for Thunder is that much difficult or to do a proof of concept

 

[Ultima Thule]

If we don't have research and development then where are we coming up with

a) Zarb Missile
b) Herba Missile
c) Ababeel
d) Avionics upgrade for Mirage
e) Avionics research for JF17 thunder

Not coming warm and fuzzzy from toaster

@AZADPAKISTAN2009 you're clueless we are jets research and development facilities, missile and avionics research and development facilities is a whole different ball game

If we don't have then make it, who is stopping to order items from China order it
we got whole industrial complex in Karachi vacant where steeles mills is not running

Build it next to steeles mills get the steel and prototype away, you make mistake with model put it back in burner and smelt it back to new prototype

If we don't have research and development then where are we coming up with

a) Zarb Missile
b) Herba Missile
c) Ababeel
d) Avionics upgrade for Mirage
e) Avionics research for JF17 Thunder

Not coming warm and fuzzzy from toaster

In term of research wing , we do need to improve the funding if that is what is holding us back, with all the experience with Delta Wing parts for Mirage really don't see a Delta Design for Thunder is that much difficult or to do a proof of concept

And ZARB basically a Chinese c-602

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well in all honesty we have every thing we need

a) We got steel Mills 100% available for defence research/ creating material for planes / APC
100% available for defence products
b) We got experienced workfroce from KAMRA who can be leaders and train new group of engineers
c) We got all the University / New fresh blood to work on these tasks
d) We also can facilitate budget if we needed to work on prototype
e) Any gaps we can collborate with international bodies for advice

PAF has launched a Aeronautics City of course to research new designs and improve old designs

We already have various companies doing UAV design and research , given them a side contract to help on this Delta Wing conversion

Give Engineering Universities Access (Open it to Universities), you do exceptional you get Job at KAMRA

100: Engineering students Mechanical/Machine design
100: Electrical Design students (electrical wires / electronics)


Project 1: Give them a Mirage Delta Wing design to review and tell them make one for Thunder Sit back and watch , if they need help to lift heavy part provide machinery if they need to get raw material , provide it for free from Steeles mills (Free access, free material nuts , bolts, sheets)

Develop Illustration of parts , design on digital medium , real life replica , try to make real thing with real material

Project 2: Give them Thunder Body column and ask them to convert it to fit 2 engines
Sit back and watch , if they ask help to move heavy part provide machinery if they need material provide it from Steeles Mills(Free access, free material , nutbolts and sheets)

Develop Illustration of parts , design on digital medium , real life replica, try to make real thing with real material


Provide them Tools and basic training

• This is the type of fun projects students dream of in University, who wants to work on that solar car ? , people now want to deign a fighter Jet

There is no shortage of international partners to work on the project in consultancy capacity for advice and help to get things rollin


Have 1-2 Kamra Engineers Supervise , the 200 Students day to day activites and record progress. Make recommendations to select students with promise for Full Time Job

 

[Mrc]

And ZARB basically a Chinese c-602

No body has ever seen a Zarb..

Also herba was supposed to be c 602...

Well it's not

 

[Ultima Thule]

No body has ever seen a Zarb..

Also herba was supposed to be c 602...

Well it's not

But senior members on PDF saying that either it is copy of C-602 or license assembling of C-602 at home and simply giving a name of ZARB

 

[Ultima Thule]

Well in all honesty we have every thing we need

a) We got steel Mills 100% available for defence research/ creating material for planes / APC
100% available for defence products
b) We got experienced workfroce from KAMRA who can be leaders and train new group of engineers
c) We got all the University / New fresh blood to work on these tasks
d) We also can facilitate budget if we needed to work on prototype
e) Any gaps we can collborate with international bodies for advice

PAF has launched a Aeronautics City of course to research new designs and improve old designs

We already have various companies doing UAV design and research , given them a side contract to help on this Delta Wing conversion

Give Engineering Universities Access (Open it to Universities), you do exceptional you get Job at KAMRA

100: Engineering students Mechanical/Machine design
100: Electrical Design students (electrical wires / electronics)


Project 1: Give them a Mirage Delta Wing design to review and tell them make one for Thunder Sit back and watch , if they need help to lift heavy part provide machinery if they need to get raw material , provide it for free from Steeles mills (Free access, free material nuts , bolts, sheets)

Project 2: Give them Thunder Body column and ask them to convert it to fit 2 engines
Sit back and watch , if they ask help to move heavy part provide machinery if they need material provide it from Steeles Mills(Free access, free material , nutbolts and sheets)



Provide them Tools and basic training

• This is the type of fun projects students dream of in University, who wants to work on that solar car ? , people now want to deign a fighter Jet

There is no shortage of international partners to work on the project in consultancy capacity for advice and help to get things rollin

Too much wishful thinking and wet dreams /false assumption @AZADPAKISTAN2009 you don't know what is the condition of our education centers nowhere near the international standards not even clsoe to India you live too much false wishful thinking superstitions and fantasyland @AZADPAKISTAN2009

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

There are alot of talented folks working globally on global firms they all happen to have graduated from Various Pakistani schools

India has never been our bench mark


Engineering segments just need some nurturing in early years the sooner they are exposed to real thing and then given Jobs the higher results it yeilds

Imagination / Youth & Experimentation = Mother of all inventions


Alot of folks who do the "work" in US on aeronautics / NASA are all "Hands On" people it is not always about having a DEGREE ...

Sometimes people just know how to conceptualize concepts better , sometimes they just know how to put two things together. Sometimes people can visualize all thing in their heads
Sometimes people just know how to model or design. Sometimes people are just genius when it comes to wiring. Sometimes people are good with designing illustrations of machine model design on paper , some are good at converting it to computer model. Sometimes they just have ideas

Purpose of a real Project Challenge is to identify GEMS


Engineer needs "Material" , "a task to build or problem to solve" , time to envision and dream.

Engineering is not just a paper thing you put on wall and sit and watch it

 

[Mrc]

But senior members on PDF saying that either it is copy of C-602 or license assembling of C-602 at home and simply giving a name of ZARB

no body has seen zarb. no pic exists...no body knows what it is.

judging from harba .... it only makes sense that a land based system will have either similar or longer range.... c 602 has 300 km range... why would we have land based system with 300 km range when we can make sea based system with 700km plus range