Ex-ISI official Col Imam killed

[53fd]

We dont have anyone like that. these politicians are all bad, same in your country.

The Pakistan army & Intelligence is working for the interest of Pakistan. The Pakistani government, despite being very corrupt, has the full and firm support of people all over Pakistan to fight the TTP. No one has tried to overthrow the present government, and the whole rage right now against Raymond Davis has another dimension: he was in contact with Lashkr-e-Jhangvi and Al-Qaeda in causing mayhem in Pakistan. The Pakistani people are furious at his links with these two groups. There are no bodies in Afghanistan that are functioning, Afghanistan is used as a playground by foreign 'forces'.

 

[Ahmad]

From my understanding, they are willing to stop the bloodshed and violence if the NATO forces leave the country, and the puppet government of Karzai is removed. You can't tell me that the Karzai government has done anything to reduce the bloodshed, in fact, the bloodshed has only increased in Afghanistan since 2001. The Afghan people have become more and more compromised in Karzai's regime. Karzai is happy with the state of the Afghan people as long as he gets protection from the NATO forces. He is also ok with India, NATO and other forces use Afghanistan as a proxy land for their proxy wars. As I see it, there is no good guy here.

No, they are not willing to stop fight and bloodshed, their ultimate goal is to gain a complte power for their own and run the gov on their own. as per bloodshed, we have had it for more than 3 decades, it is nothing new to us. as a matter of fact things are alot better in many places since 2001. if karzai puppet is not good and not preferable, then how come puppet gulbudin and talib be good.

 

[53fd]

No, they are not willing to stop fight and bloodshed, their ultimate goal is to gain a complte power for their own and run the gov on their own. as per bloodshed, we have had it for more than 3 decades, it is nothing new to us. as a matter of fact things are alot better in many places since 2001. if karzai puppet is not good and not preferable, then how come puppet gulbudin and talib be good.

I have tons of friends from Afghanistan. I have heard it was safe to drive from Kabul to Kandahar pre-2001. Now, only a madman with a deathwish would even think about doing that. I hope you realize that the corrupt regime of Karzai has seriously compromised the safety of the Afghan people on many levels.

 

[Ahmad]

We dont have anyone like that. these politicians are all bad, same in your country.

The Pakistan army & Intelligence is working for the interest of Pakistan. The Pakistani government, despite being very corrupt, has the full and firm support of people all over Pakistan to fight the TTP. No one has tried to overthrow the present government, and the whole rage right now against Raymond Davis has another dimension: he was in contact with Lashkr-e-Jhangvi and Al-Qaeda in causing mayhem in Pakistan. The Pakistani people are furious at his links with these two groups. There are no bodies in Afghanistan that are functioning, Afghanistan is used as a playground by foreign 'forces'.

lets differenttiate between afghanistan which has seen 3 decades of war and anarchy and pakistan which has had a functional gov. yes afghanistan is used as a playground by f.forces and paksitan is one of the main ones, if the others are wrong, then i dont see a single reason why paksitan should be rightr.

 

[Ahmad]

No, they are not willing to stop fight and bloodshed, their ultimate goal is to gain a complte power for their own and run the gov on their own. as per bloodshed, we have had it for more than 3 decades, it is nothing new to us. as a matter of fact things are alot better in many places since 2001. if karzai puppet is not good and not preferable, then how come puppet gulbudin and talib be good.

I have tons of friends from Afghanistan. I have heard it was safe to drive from Kabul to Kandahar pre-2001. Now, only a madman with a deathwish would even think about doing that. I hope you realize that the corrupt regime of Karzai has seriously compromised the safety of the Afghan people on many levels.

I cana provide you many proofs that the taliban indiscrimnately killed people by entereing their houses, they dragged peopole and killed them-it happend quite alot and they even flattened villages and cities to dust, tehy were themselves the main culprits.

 

[53fd]

lets differenttiate between afghanistan which has seen 3 decades of war and anarchy and pakistan which has had a functional gov. yes afghanistan is used as a playground by f.forces and paksitan is one of the main ones, if the others are wrong, then i dont see a single reason why paksitan should be rightr.

It all boils down to one thing. Pakistan's territorial integrity. Since the days of Zahir Shah, and even Karzai today, the 'secular' Pashtun nationalists have caused trouble inside Pakistan with their Pashtunistan movement. Afghanistan has no reason to call Pakistan wrong with their nefarious designs, & when Pakistan ITSELF is not involved in the Afghan crisis. Tell me, have there ever been any PAKISTANI citizens caught in this whole fiasco in Afghanistan? If any, who are they? Pakistan MAY HAVE only used certain ethnic Afghan groups for its own benefits, and these groups are not any more wrong in what they have done as compared to all the other Afghan groups. These groups are equally bad as all the other Afghan groups. By blaming Pakistan, you are ignoring and overlooking the faults of the others. Pakistan's government is corrupt, but its army and intelligence is always ready to defend Pakistan from foreign threats, whether they come from Afghanistan, India or the US.

 

[53fd]

I cana provide you many proofs that the taliban indiscrimnately killed people by entereing their houses, they dragged peopole and killed them-it happend quite alot and they even flattened villages and cities to dust, tehy were themselves the main culprits.

I'm not doubting that happened. That probably did happen. And yes, they are a violent and extremist group. But I also gave you a lot of links where I showed you that the Afghan Taliban were more popular than the current regime:

Taliban more popular than Karzai:

1. Taliban courts more popular than 'corrupt' Karzai government in Afghanistan:

Taliban courts more popular than 'corrupt' Karzai government in Afghanistan - GlobalSecurity.org Forum

2. Taliban Pays Its Troops Better Than Karzai Pays His:

Taliban Pays Its Troops Better Than Karzai Pays His | Danger Room | Wired.com

3. Karzai Threatened to Join Taliban:

Karzai Threatened to Join Taliban, Sources Say - CBS News

4. In Afghanistan war, government corruption bigger threat than Taliban:

In Afghanistan war, government corruption bigger threat than Taliban - CSMonitor.com

There are tons of other links too, btw.

 

[Ahmad]

It all boils down to one thing. Pakistan's territorial integrity. Since the days of Zahir Shah, and even Karzai today, the 'secular' Pashtun nationalists have caused trouble inside Pakistan with their Pashtunistan movement.

I think pakistan need to sort this problem out with pashtoon afghans, dont accuse all of us of pashtonistan ambitions. we non pashtoons will be side by side with paksitan when it comes the non issue of pashtoonistan. please try to for once know who is who and who wants what from you.

Afghanistan has no reason to call Pakistan wrong with their nefarious designs, & when Pakistan ITSELF is not involved in the Afghan crisis. Tell me, have there ever been any PAKISTANI citizens caught in this whole fiasco in Afghanistan?

many have been caught fighting in afghanistan, many have also been killed. i can provide you the proof if you want.

If any, who are they? Pakistan MAY HAVE only used certain ethnic Afghan groups for its own benefits, and these groups are not any more wrong in what they have done as compared to all the other Afghan groups. These groups are equally bad as all the other Afghan groups. By blaming Pakistan, you are ignoring and overlooking the faults of the others. Pakistan's government is corrupt, but its army and intelligence is always ready to defend Pakistan from foreign threats, whether they come from Afghanistan, India or the US.

if the other countries are wrong with regards to afghansitan, then pakistan is also wrong. the outsiders are playing their game including pakistan, but we are paying the heavy price.

 

[53fd]

Pakistan has no reason to be against any moderate Afghan regime that does not threaten the territorial integrity of Pakistan.

 

[53fd]

if the other countries are wrong with regards to afghansitan, then pakistan is also wrong. the outsiders are playing their game including pakistan, but we are paying the heavy price.

Pakistan is paying a heavy price too, it feels no joy playing this 'game', its people are getting killed by proxies coming from your side as well, but Pakistan will do what it has to do to protect its territorial integrity. The territorial integrity of the NATO forces, US, India is not at stake; Pakistan's is. You are our neighbor, we can't change that. That's why the Afghan government of Karzai and the NATO forces must be removed, because they are endangering the whole region. As I said, Pakistan is in favor of any moderate, secular Afghan government that does not threaten the territorial integrity of Pakistan.

 

[Ahmad]

I'm not doubting that happened. That probably did happen. And yes, they are a violent and extremist group. But I also gave you a lot of links where I showed you that the Afghan Taliban were more popular than the current regime:

Thanks for acknowleging this, but they all happend, not probably- so there is no doubt about it. no, they are not popular, they might be popular among some circles, but over all they are not.

Taliban more popular than Karzai:

1. Taliban courts more popular than 'corrupt' Karzai government in Afghanistan:

Taliban courts more popular than 'corrupt' Karzai government in Afghanistan - GlobalSecurity.org Forum

2. Taliban Pays Its Troops Better Than Karzai Pays His:

Taliban Pays Its Troops Better Than Karzai Pays His | Danger Room | Wired.com

3. Karzai Threatened to Join Taliban:

Karzai Threatened to Join Taliban, Sources Say - CBS News

4. In Afghanistan war, government corruption bigger threat than Taliban:

In Afghanistan war, government corruption bigger threat than Taliban - CSMonitor.com

There are tons of other links too, btw.

What you say is not popularity, yes they can pay their fighters better, yes their quick justince no matter how flawed is prefereable- we saw the same thing in SW of paksitan that the TTP's courts which was fast and prefered among people, about corruption, corruption was as high during the taliban as it is today. you couldnt even obtain a passport without bribing or knowing a Talib to get you a passport, this was a simple example i gave you.

yes, there is no doubt that corruption is making people's life difficult, last year i was in kabul and i had problem having our house's documetns. but this corruption has always been there, nothing new.

 

[Ahmad]

Pakistan has no reason to be against any moderate Afghan regime that does not threaten the territorial integrity of Pakistan.

nowdays it is more than territorial integrity, having a puppet gov in place in afghanistan will give pakistan an advantage against its rival india. so no one is innocent here.

 

[53fd]

I think pakistan need to sort this problem out with pashtoon afghans, dont accuse all of us of pashtonistan ambitions.

This is not the problem of Pakistan, this is Afghanistan's problem, and not just the Afghan Pashtuns, but all non-Pashtun Afghans as well. The problem with Afghanis is that they can't show a united front in anything. Don't blame Pakistan for your own differences and lack of unity over anything.

 

[Ahmad]

i think we have to stop here bilal bro. it looks like we have derailed the thread altogher lol.

i have to go back and watch the videos.

 

[Ahmad]

I think pakistan need to sort this problem out with pashtoon afghans, dont accuse all of us of pashtonistan ambitions.

This is not the problem of Pakistan, this is Afghanistan's problem, and not just the Afghan Pashtuns, but all non-Pashtun Afghans as well. The problem with Afghanis is that they can't show a united front in anything. Don't blame Pakistan for your own differences and lack of unity over anything.

yes, i agree with you that we cant show sign of unity and this is where our problem starts. but when it comes to the non issue of pashtoonistan, you at least need to know who wants what.