Everyone in India is a Hindu, says RSS chief

[sensenreason]

Lolzz like even many educated Indians who find escape wrongly comparing Hindu cast system with shia sunni issue in some Muslim countries. This is the last weak straw Indian Hindus cling to justfiy the discriminatory cast system.
The shia sunni issue in SOME Muslim countries is a political issue still on the basis of their sects there is no social discrimination.

1. Shia sunni can eat from one plate. They are equal human being unlike Hindu cast system where low cast Hindu even if touches a high cast Hindu, his life is made miserable. Low cast hindus and high cast hindus dont eat from one plate.

2. There is no touchability in Islam, all no matter which school of thoyght be shia or sunni, are all equal.

3. They pary at once place, one mosque there is no bar. Whereas in Hinduism low cast Hindus can not enter temples of high cast hindus.
and so on.

Above all all Muslims be he from shia school of thought of sunni school of thought, all of they perform the biggest Islamic ritual Hajj togather at one place, same dress, same procedure.

Hello hello doc wake up we are talking about social discrimination based on cast, and creed prevailing in Hinduism for the last thousands of years and it will continue till end if you guys refuse to accept it.

Jana,

Its a funny day. I not only agree with your view that caste system should not be equated to the Shia-Sunni divide and that caste system needs to be dismantled at the earliest.

Funnier still...I agree with the thoughts in the original post which started this thread...ie the RSS views on Hindutva. Thats not to say all people are hindus...just that though we might disagree whether the heritage of Hindutva is what RSS thinks it is..but the message at the very least is women friendly and also inclusive...

Its a telling change from earliar as religious fundamentalism ..(Hindu or otherwise)..at its heart takes away..women's rights and then divides people based on caste or creed.

At the very least, I view this as a positive statement directionally...Ofcourse..whats hindutva..whether we are Indians or Hindus..I might disagree but then the issue itself..is a non-issue.

Whats there in a name? Mumbai was attacked on 26/11 and people died...Bombay had riots in 92 and people died. You know what I mean..

 

[MZUBAIR]

So according to your sources....Hindus are Killing Muslims and Sikhs and Christians...everyday...and it flashes in your news channels everyday...

All thats history and is not good ...even for Us Indians...is good for you ...because you want to blame Hindus for everything.....

What are your people doing in your country..Killing fellow Muslims...Sunis Killing Shias....Attacking each other with bombs.....guns....do you think... we do the same here in India .....

Type these words in google and you will find indian crulty

"India muslims kill"

"India christians kill"

etc

 

[sensenreason]

As far as Caste system goes...I dont agree with this whole brushing under the carpet approach of urban educated indians....just becoz they dont face the issue cannot mean rural or un/undereducated folks dont face the issue...but then this is for some other thread.

 

[vsdoc]

Type these words in google and you will find indian crulty

"India muslims kill"

"India christians kill"

etc

Thats the beauty of the Net and Google .... it will unfailingly give you what YOU want to see.

Cheers, Doc

 

[MZUBAIR]

Thats all you have got...losing the argument...so throw India Poverty..India Anti Minority..derail the thread ........and run for cover

Its u, who lost the argument..u changed ur point.

 

[Spring Onion]

Between socially discriminating against someone and blowing someone up, take your pick about the lesser of the 2 evils Jana.

Doc the question is not who is better nor I am talking about which better and which is bad.

So why dont you accept that Hindu cast system is wrong instead of finding justifictaion for it by giving exaples from other countries.

I often grill my provincial government for this when the Chief Minister or any provincial minister try to justify the crime rate level by comparing it with other parts of the country.

No Indians like to eat from one plate. We find it pretty revolting.

Doc if i post a pic where Indians are eating from the same plat along with the rats and the same plat is mounted by rats eating the same food.

But that would be disgusting so lets just talk about this touchability and its affects.

Take it this way, ok so eating from one plat is not liked OK we move on to another aspect and that is a low cast Hindu is not even allowed sit along by the high cast Hindu.

As for your views on caste/untouchability, you seem to be stuck in the Bhagat Singh era ..... India has moved on from those days, though admittedly not as far as Indians would like to on this issue.

Low-caste man lynched in eastern India
26th , 2008 Is this Bhagat Singh era ??? you can check 2009 is also not Bhagat Singh era.


New Delhi - A low-caste man was beaten to death by a mob on the suspicion of stealing a cow in a case of caste violence in India's eastern state of Bihar, a news report said Wednesday.

The victim, identified as Bharat Dom, was lynched Tuesday in Chhapra town, 60 kilometres north-west of the state capital, Patna, the IANS news agency reported.

Police said a mob caught the man, who is in his mid-40s, on suspicion of having stolen the cow from the house of an upper-caste man.

'He was beaten to death with bricks and bamboo sticks,' a police officer told IANS. A murder case has been registered, but arrests have yet to be made.

The incident comes a day after an elderly man was lynched in the same state when he intervened to save his grandson in a dispute over a love affair.

Over the past few months, more than a dozen cases of vigilante justice and mob lynchings have been reported in Bihar, which is India's poorest and most lawless state. Atrocities against low castes, also known as Dalits, are also common in the state

In September, 10 men from a Dalit community were beaten to death on the suspicion that they were thieves. Later, an inquiry found the men were innocent.

In August, a policeman in Bihar drowned two low-caste girls by throwing them in a river for stealing firewood from his orchard.

Although caste-based discrimination is banned, upper-caste Hindus still practice all forms of discrimination, including not allowing the low caste to worship at temples and insisting that they drink from separate village wells.

The most menial jobs, including the cleaning of sewers, often manually, are also largely done by Dalit community members, who comprise about 160 million of India's 1.2 billion people.

Low-caste man lynched in eastern India - Monsters and Critics

Well we Indians (including our Muslims) are different in that case ... we are a pretty touchy feely lot! LOL Does wonders for Indian brother/sisterhood

Cheers, Doc

That is effect of Indian culture indeed not Islam

 

[Spring Onion]

Jana,

Its a funny day. I not only agree with your view that caste system should not be equated to the Shia-Sunni divide and that caste system needs to be dismantled at the earliest.

Funnier still...I agree with the thoughts in the original post which started this thread...ie the RSS views on Hindutva. Thats not to say all people are hindus...just that though we might disagree whether the heritage of Hindutva is what RSS thinks it is..but the message at the very least is women friendly and also inclusive...

Its a telling change from earliar as religious fundamentalism ..(Hindu or otherwise)..at its heart takes away..women's rights and then divides people based on caste or creed.

At the very least, I view this as a positive statement directionally...Ofcourse..whats hindutva..whether we are Indians or Hindus..I might disagree but then the issue itself..is a non-issue.

Whats there in a name? Mumbai was attacked on 26/11 and people died...Bombay had riots in 92 and people died. You know what I mean..

Listen if you ask me i have see no problem with Hindutva doctrine BUT only if those in India who are playing a double standard should come clean and say there is nothing wrong in making India on the basis of Hindutva ideology and giving every one their due rights irrespective of if India is Hindutva state or not that is not the issue.

On the other hand Mumbai attacks or politicial differences or rivalries between two countries should not be made a stigma for people of another faith who are your or mine citiziens.

 

[sensenreason]

Please first learn abt the defination of Muslim.
Having Muslim name never means that a person is muslim.
Its a believe.

To become muslim, the first rule is to believe on oneness of Allah and nobody else There is no god except Allah and there is no one to be worshipped except Allah.

If someone worship anything else except Allah and claims Muslim...........then he is fake muslim.

Those muslims who go Mahalakshmi and shidhiwinayak and worship their are not muslims.

What if there are two Muslims..one who hasnt been to Mahalaxmi but does not pray and does not follow any teachings or duties of a Muslim...versus another Muslim who prays 5 times a day and does everything else a Muslim is supposed to do but has also visited Siddhivinyak...who amongst them is a fake Muslim?...

 

[sensenreason]

Listen if you ask me i have see no problem with Hindutva doctrine BUT only if those in India who are playing a double standard should come clean and say there is nothing wrong in making India on the basis of Hindutva ideology and giving every one their due rights irrespective of if India is Hindutva state or not that is not the issue.

On the other hand Mumbai attacks or politicial differences or rivalries between two countries should not be made a stigma for people of another faith who are your or mine citiziens.

I agree..suppose caste system was not there are Hindus were equal. But Hindutva also typically argues that all people living in India..so it would expect Muslims and people of other faiths to put country before religion...and also argues that all Indians are Hindus who might have converted to one or the other religion over time...

Ofcourse..I agree, no religious profiling should happen..even if Mumbai happened.

 

[spsk]

Unlike Hindusim where low cast Hinuds cant pray at same temple, they can not marry in 99% cases to a high cast hindus, they are considerd untouchable and all this is based on hinduism.

Hinduism has already has a social break up for low cast hindus and high cast hindus whereas in Islam there is no such things all Muslims are having equal rights according to Quran the only difference is based on your deeds. Not your cast or creed unlike hinduism.

My Fried, you have complete misunderstanding of Hinduism. Hinduism of course encouraged caste system 1000s of years ago but nowhere it says "upper cast" or "lower caste".Nowhere its mentioned that some one belong to a caste by birth. A son of Kshatriya can become Brahman if he follows life style of a Brahman.

This caste system was very important for trade where there was no money invented.In those days washer man has to do his duty through out the year and can be paid only after cultivation. With out money how is it possible to motivate him ? This was done by caste system.

Hinduism does not break up the society ,indeed it organizes society with this caste system ,but there is no such "upper caste" . Its the people's assumption. Definitely a business man cannot do a duty of a washer man.

Caste by birth also formed because its always very easy to do the inherited business than a new one.

By our Indian Law every one in India is Hindu as long as they are not going to say I am not Hindu, There are two reasons behind it.

1) All were Hindus in India before Afghan + Mughal invasion
2) Hinduism says you are Hindu as long as you are not going to say you are not a Hindu.

 

[rubyjackass]

Lolzz like even many educated Indians who find escape wrongly comparing Hindu cast system with shia sunni issue in some Muslim countries. This is the last weak straw Indian Hindus cling to justfiy the discriminatory cast system.
The shia sunni issue in SOME Muslim countries is a political issue still on the basis of their sects there is no social discrimination.

1. Shia sunni can eat from one plate. They are equal human being unlike Hindu cast system where low cast Hindu even if touches a high cast Hindu, his life is made miserable. Low cast hindus and high cast hindus dont eat from one plate.

2. There is no touchability in Islam, all no matter which school of thoyght be shia or sunni, are all equal.

3. They pary at once place, one mosque there is no bar. Whereas in Hinduism low cast Hindus can not enter temples of high cast hindus.

and so on.

Above all all Muslims be he from shia school of thought of sunni school of thought, all of they perform the biggest Islamic ritual Hajj togather at one place, same dress, same procedure.



Hello hello doc wake up we are talking about social discrimination based on cast, and creed prevailing in Hinduism for the last thousands of years and it will continue till end if you guys refuse to accept it.

Caste of when are you talking about? The things you talk about caste superiority are like from decades ago. But still there ARE people who in their personal capacity and means try to show their superiority.
Untouchability is banned in India and no Hindu leader advocates it. They don't even talk about it because it is such a non-issue for them. But it is a holy cow which does not tire of giving threads for the great Jana to screw up.
If you ask me India is not going to suffer because some caste shows superiority. That is near non-existent. But it is because each caste's people try to promote their own people in jobs and politics leading to less inter-mingling of people. Even low caste people form unholy rings like this. If you want to see how bad this phenomenon is, next time when you go to orkut, check out some communities like 'Reddy power', 'Naik unity', 'Mudaliyar blah blah... You may understand. For whatever caste you find in India there is almost always an orkut community or facebook network. This is what the real worry is. Not untouchability or temple entry. They were dealt with by Gandhi.

The important point is that none of these caste groups bomb others or push away others from being a Hindu.
Isn't the same phenomenon happening with Muslims all over, when they try to marry their kid into their own sect and so on?

 

[r3alist]

Why can't they just say that everyone in India is an INDIAN, how hard is that to understand?

many people in india identify with the hindu civilisation of milleniums ago, they see india as the remains of their hindu civilisation, of which they are proud of and identify with more than anythingelse.


with the growth and strength of india i have noted that people do not feel india is becoming stronger but the hindu civilisation is becoming stronger, under the guise of democracy



the muslim and christian conquests of india are a painful reminder of the impotence of hindu men in particular to resist outside invaders, this is why we are seeing india bludgeon its christian and muslims minorities except for when they submit to hindu superiority, the hindu's are reclaiming india for hindu's.

 

[rubyjackass]

Listen if you ask me i have see no problem with Hindutva doctrine BUT only if those in India who are playing a double standard should come clean and say there is nothing wrong in making India on the basis of Hindutva ideology and giving every one their due rights irrespective of if India is Hindutva state or not that is not the issue.

On the other hand Mumbai attacks or politicial differences or rivalries between two countries should not be made a stigma for people of another faith who are your or mine citiziens.

Basically you want India to become(or may I use 'slide down into') Hindu Pakistan.
Because you always say how Pakistan is openly Islamic but gives pukkah 100% rights to all other religions. Also according to you Pakistan, inspite of political rivalries never makes a stigma in the way you mentioned(you know... like how Pak Hindus do not wait for some Masjid in India to be demolished, to get their ***es kicked).

Even the most hardcore Hindutva leader will not want it.

Jana: 'Hey I am bad and I am openly admitting it. You are bad mann!! you are bad, I read in right wing papers and in propaganda websites, you are bad. So you admit now that you are bad. Your senses may tell you wrongly that your society is not bad. But my sources are Oraculous and they say you are bad. So admit it'

Me:

 

[vsdoc]

Great post Ruby!

We see this daily in the workplace too my friend. Cliques and gangs forming based on region, language (dunno about caste though - am quite at sea at figuring it out based on a person's name).

But yes you have the Punjus, the Marathi manoos, the Biharis, the Bhaiyyas, the Bongs, the Mallus, Gultis, Madrasis, Kannadigas ..... you get the point.

More than religion and caste in our country, I feel narrow minded language-regional clanism is something we seriously need to tackle, because while it does not lead to widespread violence or bloodshed, it insidiously erodes away at the fabric of being "INDIAN" first and foremost, with state/regions being just there for administrative de-centralisation purposes.

Would require a serious re-look at our constitution too in terms of what belong to the Union List and what goes under the State List ..... or Concurrent List in a pinch.

Otherwise we Indians are destined to more of this BS state-level quota raj which breeds nothing but corruption, complacence, and mediocrity. And yes, this is coming from a Bihari-Jharkhandi settled and living in Maharashtra. And while we are at it, as Indians lets call a spade a spade and force the Government to do away with the age-old BS/CRAP rule of Indians not being allowed to buy/own land in J&K and other select places.

I feel no one talks about this enough ..... and if we Indians dont then the people on top are not going to either any time soon coz it would just disturb the applecart of comfortable equations of power sharing (and money making) shaped and setup over decades between the ledership of the Union and the States.

Cheers, Doc

 

[R.A.W.]

many people in india identify with the hindu civilisation of milleniums ago, they see india as the remains of their hindu civilisation, of which they are proud of and identify with more than anythingelse.


with the growth and strength of india i have noted that people do not feel india is becoming stronger but the hindu civilisation is becoming stronger, under the guise of democracy



the muslim and christian conquests of india are a painful reminder of the impotence of hindu men in particular to resist outside invaders, this is why we are seeing india bludgeon its christian and muslims minorities except for when they submit to hindu superiority, the hindu's are reclaiming india for hindu's.

If Indians would have wanted a Hindu India it would have done long back with Hindus in majority. But we are a long society...

Regarding the potency of Hindu men Hinduism revolves around peace and about living your life. It does not teach you to do Jihad or become a Mujahideen or to go to a foreign land for conquest campaign on the name of religon for every thing or any other violence. So this was the reason we were never prepared for the same for the violent people coming from the west. But we have learn our lessons very well to how to deal with the Jihad of so called terrorists and agression from the western front.

As far as India is concerned India is not a Hindu country but a secular society which thrives on secular principles where any aggression would be dealt with force equally by Indians (which include Indian Muslims as well as Kashmiris)