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Erdogan welcomes Abbas in Ottoman Empire style ceremony

Yeah more Arabs died in Arabic populated areas, in Anatolia we lost 1/3 of our population, how exactly does this prove your claim that Arabs were used as cannon fodder?
Now you claim Arabs were second class in Ottoman Army, again a source pls.
Arabs all in all was treated fair in Ottoman Empire there might be some incidents so what, it was normal back then or did i missed a fully democratic empire?
In the end Ottoman rule was one of the most peaceful times in ME history.


So you admit that your thread title is biased?
yeah Arabs were treated so well that a Arab diaspora started in the Americas and else where... Arabs were treated so well that the revolted... my friend stop asking me for sources how hard is it for you to google... I want you for once to do a simple research and educate yourself... if you're just gonna sit here and wait you'll never learn, which is why you're ignorant to these issues... stop being lazy... http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/20/opinion/turkeys-human-rights-hypocrisy.html?_r=0

do you know Arabic?
the title is the from the article, last time I changed the article title you complained, and I got an infraction... :disagree:

plus the main point is the welcoming ceremony, it is the how erdogan trying to show his power, it is a subtle message to Turkish people more than the west itself... he is telling you he is the new sultan..
 
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yeah Arabs were treated so well that a Arab diaspora started in the Americas and else where...
Arabs migrated to latin america because of trade not because they were opressed.

Arabs were treated so well that the revolted...
Arabs revolted because Brits promised them independence, it was the time where Nationalistic forces gained momentum, again nothing to do with oppression.

my friend stop asking me for sources how hard is it for you to google...
When you make claims then support it with proofs.

I want you for once to do a simple research and educate yourself... if you're just gonna sit here and wait you'll never learn, which is why you're ignorant to these issues...
Says the one coming up with claims without proofs.

And how exactly does this support your claim that Arabs were second class soldiers?

the title is the from the article, last time I changed the article title you complained, and I got an infraction... :disagree:
I have no clue what your talking about...

plus the main point is the welcoming ceremony, it is the how erdogan trying to show his power, it is a subtle message to Turkish people more than the west itself... he is telling you he is the new sultan..
The idea actually came from Army not Erdogan, see you have no clue but act smart azz as always...
 
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Arabs migrated to latin america because of trade not because they were opressed.


Arabs revolted because Brits promised them independence, it was the time where Nationalistic forces gained momentum, again nothing to do with oppression.


When you make claims then support it with proofs.


Says the one coming up with claims without proofs.


And how exactly does this support your claim that Arabs were second class soldiers?


I have no clue what your talking about...


The idea actually came from Army not Erdogan, see you have no clue but act smart azz as always...
Dude, Turks are blinded by what they have done in the past, they never want to admit their atrocities against Arabs, Armenians, Assyrians and Kurds...

and now when I give you a link you say what that has to do with Arabs being treated badly?? did you even read it?? Arabs were being mistreated and oppressed for years that it came to a point where they worked with britsh to get rid of the occupiers..

now lets pretend that everything I said is "wrong" ( but it is not, I'm going along with you), but do you have the courage to admit to the atrocities done by the ottomans? of course most of the Turks no nothing when it comes to the ottoman atrocities...

and you once reported back in 2012 for not using the same title as the article I posted...

from the army, again that shows how much erdogan has control of the Turkish government and military, he jails generals and etc... that the army if following erdogan ottomani love...

you love ottomans so much and you have ataturk as your avatar?
 
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ZA3WyA.jpg

This is list of 16 Turkic empires represented in Turkish presidential seal as stars


It is still disputed if the Xiongnu or Hepthalites were of Turkic origin. I think most scholars today say that Hepthalites were Eastern Iranic and among the ancestors of Pashtuns. There are several theories about the ethnic origin of Xiongnus but I think they were mixed. The rest are obviously Turkic
 
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Dude, Turks are blinded by what they have done in the past, they never want to admit their atrocities against Arabs, Armenians, Assyrians and Kurds...
Yeah lets pretend is was all onesided, there was not atrocities agains Turks in WWI, lets just blind out the Armenian gangs that looted and burned Turkish/Kurdish villages and killed thousands.

BTW: the number of killed Armenians is highly exaggerated.

and now when I give you a link you say what that has to do with Arabs being treated badly?? did you even read it?? Arabs were being mistreated and oppressed for years that it came to a point where they worked with britsh to get rid of the occupiers..
As i said, this had nothing to do with Arabs bein oppressed, they just wanted their lands back so collaborated with brits thats all.

now lets pretend that everything I said is "wrong" ( but it is not, I'm going along with you), but do you have the courage to admit to the atrocities done by the ottomans? of course most of the Turks no nothing when it comes to the ottoman atrocities...
We had already a discussion about this, i have never said Ottomans did nothing, as i said it isnt black and white and didnt came out of nowhere, the same was done to muslim population too but you prefer to leave that part out.

and you once reported back in 2012 for not using the same title as the article I posted...
I cant remember, i report rarely users, only if its really neccessary, if i reported you then surely for a good reason.

from the army, again that shows how much erdogan has control of the Turkish government and military, he jails generals and etc... that the army if following erdogan ottomani love...
The Army always had historic units such as Mehter units its nothing new.

you love ottomans so much and you have ataturk as your avatar?
I just respect our ancestors, Atatürk himself was a Ottoman soldier schooled in Ottoman military academy, he abolished the empire because it was already dead.
 
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It is still disputed if the Xiongnu or Hepthalites were of Turkic origin. I think most scholars today say that Hepthalites were Eastern Iranic and among the ancestors of Pashtuns. There are several theories about the ethnic origin of Xiongnus but I think they were mixed. The rest are obviously Turkic
Iranic? which historian claimed that? Don't use wikipedia. I told you countless times. You are still learning history from wikipedia :disagree: But if you have serious sources from known historians, you can share them with me.

It is generally accepted that Xiongnu was from Turkic stock and share the same culture as Turkic peoples. Horse-riders, nomads, and archery.

Yeah lets pretend is was all onesided, there was not atrocities agains Turks in WWI, lets just blind out the Armenian gangs that looted and burned Turkish/Kurdish villages and killed thousands.

BTW: the number of killed Armenians is highly exaggerated.


As i said, this had nothing to do with Arabs bein oppressed, they just wanted their lands back so collaborated with brits thats all.


We had already a discussion about this, i have never said Ottomans did nothing, as i said it isnt black and white and didnt came out of nowhere, the same was done to muslim population too but you prefer to leave that part out.


I cant remember, i report rarely users, only if its really neccessary, if i reported you then surely for a good reason.


The Army always had historic units such as Mehter units its nothing new.


I just respect our ancestors, Atatürk himself was a Ottoman soldier schooled in Ottoman military academy, he abolished the empire because it was already dead.
It is your energy wasted :)
Yeah lets pretend is was all onesided, there was not atrocities agains Turks in WWI, lets just blind out the Armenian gangs that looted and burned Turkish/Kurdish villages and killed thousands.

BTW: the number of killed Armenians is highly exaggerated.


As i said, this had nothing to do with Arabs bein oppressed, they just wanted their lands back so collaborated with brits thats all.


We had already a discussion about this, i have never said Ottomans did nothing, as i said it isnt black and white and didnt came out of nowhere, the same was done to muslim population too but you prefer to leave that part out.


I cant remember, i report rarely users, only if its really neccessary, if i reported you then surely for a good reason.


The Army always had historic units such as Mehter units its nothing new.


I just respect our ancestors, Atatürk himself was a Ottoman soldier schooled in Ottoman military academy, he abolished the empire because it was already dead.
Yeah lets pretend is was all onesided, there was not atrocities agains Turks in WWI, lets just blind out the Armenian gangs that looted and burned Turkish/Kurdish villages and killed thousands.

BTW: the number of killed Armenians is highly exaggerated.


As i said, this had nothing to do with Arabs bein oppressed, they just wanted their lands back so collaborated with brits thats all.


We had already a discussion about this, i have never said Ottomans did nothing, as i said it isnt black and white and didnt came out of nowhere, the same was done to muslim population too but you prefer to leave that part out.


I cant remember, i report rarely users, only if its really neccessary, if i reported you then surely for a good reason.


The Army always had historic units such as Mehter units its nothing new.


I just respect our ancestors, Atatürk himself was a Ottoman soldier schooled in Ottoman military academy, he abolished the empire because it was already dead.
It is your energy wasted :)
 
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Yeah lets pretend is was all onesided, there was not atrocities agains Turks in WWI, lets just blind out the Armenian gangs that looted and burned Turkish/Kurdish villages and killed thousands.

BTW: the number of killed Armenians is highly exaggerated.


As i said, this had nothing to do with Arabs bein oppressed, they just wanted their lands back so collaborated with brits thats all.


We had already a discussion about this, i have never said Ottomans did nothing, as i said it isnt black and white and didnt came out of nowhere, the same was done to muslim population too but you prefer to leave that part out.


I cant remember, i report rarely users, only if its really neccessary, if i reported you then surely for a good reason.


The Army always had historic units such as Mehter units its nothing new.


I just respect our ancestors, Atatürk himself was a Ottoman soldier schooled in Ottoman military academy, he abolished the empire because it was already dead.
the persecution against Ottomans happened after WWI because of what they have done.. and I never left the Muslims out, I kept saying the crimes against the Arabs done by the ottomans and you're saying they didn't do anything or mistreated Arabs.....

yeah you reported me for using a different title.. that might be a good reason for you to report me :rolleyes:

wasn't Ataturk against islamists and etc?
 
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the persecution against Ottomans happened after WWI because of what they have done.. and I never left the Muslims out, I kept saying the crimes against the Arabs done by the ottomans and you're saying they didn't do anything or mistreated Arabs.....
And i say this isnt true, Arabs all in all had a pretty carefree life in Ottoman Empire, there might be some incidents which was standart at that time.

yeah you reported me for using a different title.. that might be a good reason for you to report me :rolleyes:
Maybe because you corrupted the title to give a different impresson as the actual content, as i said, i dont remember but it must have a reason.

wasn't Ataturk against islamists and etc?
He was a reformist and he fought islamists who wanted to take control over the country, he banned many secret societys such as islamist groups, masons, etc. including the Committee of Union and Progress where he was member for a shot time period.
He didnt wanted any of those secret socieitys in Turkey and banned all of them together in 1923 when he declared the republic because he thought such groups might be dangerous for the state, today we can see how right he was looking at Gülen organisation.
 
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A multinational force

In terms of manpower the Ottoman Army was dominated by Turkish soldiers. This was partly a reflection of demographics (more than half the empire’s population was Turkish) and partly a legacy of the traditional Turkish domination of the empire as a whole. While the conscripts who made up the rank and file of the army were taken from all ethnic groups, the officer class was almost entirely Turkish. There were some Arab and even a few non-Muslim officers in the army in 1914, but all the senior military commands were held by Turks. Turks were thought to make better and more reliable soldiers than other ethnic groups, and the core of the Ottoman Army was the all-Turkish infantry units recruited from the heartlands of Anatolia (modern-day Turkey).

Arab Muslims were the next largest ethnic group in the army. Arabs were sometimes relegated to second-rate units and internal security tasks. Although Arab infantry units performed well at Gallipoli and against the Russians in the Caucasus, they became less dependable as the conflict went on. After the outbreak of the Arab Revolt in late 1916 increasing numbers of Arab soldiers deserted. Kurds were also recruited in large numbers, usually as tribal auxiliaries serving in their local regions rather than regular soldiers. The Kurdish auxiliaries provided the regular Ottoman field armies with scouting and raiding parties and performed internal security duties immediately behind the front lines. Similar auxiliary units were recruited from Arab desert tribes in Palestine and Mesopotamia.

@Syrian Lion check this out. Now you have to blame yourself :lol:
Kurdish and Arab auxiliaries quickly developed a reputation for banditry, rape and murder. The victims of these crimes were usually other ethnic and religious minorities within the empire, but Allied prisoners of war also suffered badly at their hands. When confronted with serious military opposition, the auxiliaries usually deserted at the first opportunity. Ottoman commanders learnt from bitter experience that they could not be relied upon in a crisis.

Non-Muslim subjects were barred from serving in the Ottoman Army until the conscription laws were changed in 1909. The prospect of non-Muslim soldiers – and especially officers – joining the army sparked strong resistance from Muslim hardliners within both the army and Ottoman society at large. Shortly after the war began the outbreak of anti-Ottoman unrest in the Christian Armenian communities of eastern Anatolia allowed the hardliners to cast doubt over the loyalty of all the empire’s non-Muslim subjects. The 1909 laws were effectively revoked. Non-Muslims continued to be conscripted into the army, but they could not become officers and were restricted to service behind the lines in unarmed labour battalions.

The Ottoman Army - The Ottoman Empire | NZHistory, New Zealand history online

Where does your source claim that Arabs were cannon fodder, pls quote the particular part.
You can google as much in Turkey as in Syria, dont come up with the ''censorship'' argument.
BTW: im living in Switzerland in case you missed it.
Yeah you are not allowed to talk about the armenian issue without getting fined. :(
 
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And i say this isnt true, Arabs all in all had a pretty carefree life in Ottoman Empire, there might be some incidents which was standart at that time.


Maybe because you corrupted the title to give a different impresson as the actual content, as i said, i dont remember but it must have a reason.


He was a reformist and he fought islamists who wanted to take control over the country, he banned many secret societys such as islamist groups, masons, etc. including the Committee of Union and Progress where he was member for a shot time period.
He didnt wanted any of those secret socieitys in Turkey and banned all of them together in 1923 when he declared the republic because he thought such groups might be dangerous for the state, today we can see how right he was looking at Gülen organisation.
that is the problem, the occupier always thinks he is good and clean, just like Israel says that Palestinians are happy, and how USA said invasion of Iraq freed the people and etc, while in reality the occupier always mistreat the people no matter what...

yeah, maybe thats a good reason for you, which is why I didn't change the title here...
 
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The Ottomans were backward despots and violent megalomaniacs. Admittedly, Europe was much much worse at the time, but that is not a valid excuse to portray the Ottoman empire as peaceful and humane.

By the way, as I said earlier Europe was much more violent at the time, but I have seen many right-wing Western nutjobs making totally absurd comments to the contrary. As if Europe was a some peaceful heaven while those barbaric Muslims were busy killing each other, which couldn't be further from the truth. Throughout history Europe has been much much more violent than the so-called Islamic world. This is undeniable.

It's only in the last century or so that things started to change. Until perhaps 40 years ago nobody had even heard of "radical Muslims" blowing innocent people into pieces, it's a fairly recent phenomenon.
 
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that is the problem, the occupier always thinks he is good and clean, just like Israel says that Palestinians are happy, and how USA said invasion of Iraq freed the people and etc, while in reality the occupier always mistreat the people no matter what...
Oppression might be true looking at Balkan but surely not to ME.

yeah, maybe thats a good reason for you, which is why I didn't change the title here...
Doesnt make the title less biased.
 
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Everyone likes to point out the ottoman reactions to certain groups but they never ask themselves why there was a reaction in the first place.
 
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A multinational force

In terms of manpower the Ottoman Army was dominated by Turkish soldiers. This was partly a reflection of demographics (more than half the empire’s population was Turkish) and partly a legacy of the traditional Turkish domination of the empire as a whole. While the conscripts who made up the rank and file of the army were taken from all ethnic groups, the officer class was almost entirely Turkish. There were some Arab and even a few non-Muslim officers in the army in 1914, but all the senior military commands were held by Turks. Turks were thought to make better and more reliable soldiers than other ethnic groups, and the core of the Ottoman Army was the all-Turkish infantry units recruited from the heartlands of Anatolia (modern-day Turkey).

Arab Muslims were the next largest ethnic group in the army. Arabs were sometimes relegated to second-rate units and internal security tasks. Although Arab infantry units performed well at Gallipoli and against the Russians in the Caucasus, they became less dependable as the conflict went on. After the outbreak of the Arab Revolt in late 1916 increasing numbers of Arab soldiers deserted. Kurds were also recruited in large numbers, usually as tribal auxiliaries serving in their local regions rather than regular soldiers. The Kurdish auxiliaries provided the regular Ottoman field armies with scouting and raiding parties and performed internal security duties immediately behind the front lines. Similar auxiliary units were recruited from Arab desert tribes in Palestine and Mesopotamia.

@Syrian Lion check this out. Now you have to blame yourself :lol:
Kurdish and Arab auxiliaries quickly developed a reputation for banditry, rape and murder. The victims of these crimes were usually other ethnic and religious minorities within the empire, but Allied prisoners of war also suffered badly at their hands. When confronted with serious military opposition, the auxiliaries usually deserted at the first opportunity. Ottoman commanders learnt from bitter experience that they could not be relied upon in a crisis.

Non-Muslim subjects were barred from serving in the Ottoman Army until the conscription laws were changed in 1909. The prospect of non-Muslim soldiers – and especially officers – joining the army sparked strong resistance from Muslim hardliners within both the army and Ottoman society at large. Shortly after the war began the outbreak of anti-Ottoman unrest in the Christian Armenian communities of eastern Anatolia allowed the hardliners to cast doubt over the loyalty of all the empire’s non-Muslim subjects. The 1909 laws were effectively revoked. Non-Muslims continued to be conscripted into the army, but they could not become officers and were restricted to service behind the lines in unarmed labour battalions.

The Ottoman Army - The Ottoman Empire | NZHistory, New Zealand history online


Yeah you are not allowed to talk about the armenian issue without getting fined. :(
talk about mistreating and torture, the Ottomans were the best at it my friend... the khazouk(impalement) is Ottomans favorite...

Baksheesh is bribery, and the khazouk is a spike driven through its victim’s rectum, which the Ottomans used to terrify locals and deter potential insurgents. The Ottomans were hated here and throughout the Arabic-speaking Middle East, not only by the regional minorities (Christians, Jews, Shia, etc.) but also by their Sunni Arab coreligionists. All felt the heavy yoke of the Sublime Porte.

The Return of the Ottomans | The Weekly Standard
 
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talk about mistreating and torture, the Ottomans were the best at it my friend... the khazouk(impalement) is Ottomans favorite...

Baksheesh is bribery, and the khazouk is a spike driven through its victim’s rectum, which the Ottomans used to terrify locals and deter potential insurgents. The Ottomans were hated here and throughout the Arabic-speaking Middle East, not only by the regional minorities (Christians, Jews, Shia, etc.) but also by their Sunni Arab coreligionists. All felt the heavy yoke of the Sublime Porte.

The Return of the Ottomans | The Weekly Standard
This method is also said to be used by Vlad the Impaler.
 
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