Erdoğan slams preachers over remarks on women, calls on Diyanet to take more active role

[Indus Pakistan]

whataboutery

Ahh the Injun comes out.

The US spends 182 billion dollars on incarceration.

The same US spends $800 billion on 'defence'. Law/Order is not cheap.

Please note, most of these criminals go back to crime shortly after they are released.

True. But are we supposed to hang all the criminals? That is nature of justice. You can't hang all of them - even in USA. There is whole set crimes.

I don't think criminals should be awarded with food, shelter, free medical services, and all other perks, especially at the expense of the innocent

So what would you have. Starve them?

 

[takeitwithyou]

Ahh the Injun comes out.

The word 'Injun' - is a gross slang towards American Indians_akin to calling a black person a Nigger. I'm not the least bit shocked you used such terms. You and I will never cross paths on these forums. /ignore

 

[Trango Towers]

I'm not a Turkish citizen so I do not think I can comment on Turkish politics, but how can a Muslim leader say that provisions that were revealed 15 centuries are not relevant today.

Only a hypocrite would do that.

To say that Islam needs to be revised, means changing the religion.

Anyways I heard that the Hurriyet is a libertine newspaper while Today's Zaman is the conservative newspaper in Turkey.

Turks can do whatever they like in their country, but lol you cannot change what Islam says. Islam is what it is.

I think you misunderstood.

Some of these self made scholars who oppress women should be taken to task. There are societies where they say a women must not be seen by a male doctor even if she dies yet Allah tells you he would rather see the Kebah destroyed than a single Muslim life lost. He insist on you eating pork to save a life. These are the idiots he is talking about who prevent women's education so next generation Muslims are ignorant. Fact is we have to challenge these idiots. Regarding his comments....essence can be lost in translation too

 

[shah_123]

And let;s make this clear. No human being has right to inflict physical hurt, harm on another human being. Period. The notion that a person by virtue of being male is entitled to hit another person [female] is primitive and cannot be sustained in any civilized society in our age.

Actually, Mughals and other Muslim Kingdoms also restricted/banned it.

but the thanks only went to the Brits - mindset mindset !

 

[Max]

Send mullah yildiz to ISIS territories. He deserve them not Turkey.

 

[war&peace]

Well this is actually quite obvious, im surprised so many people are shocked by this.

Matters can be reinterpreted, but core faith remains the same. Definitely things can be reinterpreted for example here in Scandinavia we have abnormally long days in the summer and very short in the winter. It becomes difficult to fast for 20+ hours in the summer (which is case in Holy Ramadan), so it scholars should find a collective solution but no scholar has the authority to change the number of obligatory prayers from 5 to any other number.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

The Kuran is beyond yesterday, today or tomorrow, for it adopts every ''conditions'' of human beings unlike some 'Islam abusers'; that is why the world is running 21.century while they are stuck in primitive era, in which poverty, misery, blood is widespread like today's muslim geography followed by ''kuffars'' smart devices.

Even Erdoğan has come to realization for it, which underlines the uniqueness of Turkish understanding of Islam.

 

[xenon54 out]

Send mullah yildiz to ISIS territories. He deserve them not Turkey.

He is a self proclaimed schoolar, these people should be jailed just like fake doctors.

 

[shah_123]

I agree with him entirely. To be honest if you placed me on the Turkish political scale I would land somewhere in AKP territory. I like to think that I am quite conservative but the problem is Pakistan has tilted so far to the extreme that in the Pakistani context I am considered a uber-areligious westoxified heathen.

As regards what Erdogan said it makes perfect sense. Sir Allama Iqbal asked exactly the same for Islam in "Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam" and he further pointed out that it was going to be the Turkish Republic where we would see the rejuvenation of Isamic thought. This prophesy appears to be coming true.

But with all their comprehensiveness these systems cannot claim any finality. The Ulema of Islam, being accepting the theoretical possibility of a complete ijtihad, claim of finality. This attitude should not be maintained any longer in such an ever changing scenario. The claim of the present generation of Muslim liberals to reinterpret the foundational legal principles, in the light of their own experience and the altered conditions of modern life is, perfectly justified. The teaching of the Quran that life is a process of progressive creation necessitates that each generation guided but unhampered by the work of its predecessors should be permitted to solve its own problems. The equality of man and woman in point of divorce, separation and inheritance is
possible according to Muhammadan Law.

Page 78.


Such is the attitude of the modern Turk, inspired as he is by the realities of experience, and not by the scholastic reasoning of jurists who lived and thought under different conditions of life. To my mind these arguments, if rightly appreciated, indicate the birth of an International ideal, which forming the very essence of Islam, has been hitherto overshadowed or rather displaced by Arabian Imperialism of the earlier centuries in Islam.

The republican form of government is not only thoroughly consistent with the spirit of Islam, but has also become a necessity in view of the new forces that were set free in the world of Islam.

To have a succession of identical thoughts and feelings is to have no thoughts and feelings at all. Such is the lot of most Muslim countries today. They are mechanically repeating old values...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Reconstruction_of_Religious_Thought_in_Islam
https://archive.org/details/cover_201501

What exactly Allama Iqbal asked for regarding Islam?

Why are you posting selective quotes from wikipedia -- i don't know how things work in wikipedia, but whoever posted in wikipedia is a buffoon.

It really is ironic how millions in Pakistan cite Sir Allama Iqbal's name - we have his https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_Allama_Iqbal but rarely does anybody bother really looking at his message. I wish people in Pakistan took the time to read his "The Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam" and took on his message. Which is simple. We need to reform.

https://archive.org/details/cover_201501

Reform exactly what?

As I have got older I have matured and reconsidered my thoughts. One of things I have really changed on is corporal punishment. I don't even think society has that right. The greatest expression of humanity is refraining from the animalistic impulses we have. I therefore now oppose death penalty. If you murdered me I would prefer they would not hang you. Give you a life term in prison is fine by me.

With due respect, you might have grown older but not matured -- is this the kind of reform you looking for in Islam. This is not reform, this is revolt.

ALLAH swt' has clearly said in Quran:

“And there is (a saving of) life for you in Al-Qisaas (the Law of Equality in punishment), O men of understanding, that you may become Al-Muttaqoon (the pious)” [al-Baqarah 2:179]

We ordained therein for them:"Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers" [al-Ma'idah 5:45 ]

 

[war&peace]

Ahh the Injun comes out.

Good that you recognised and he confirmed it.

Hi,

That preacher should be executed for inciting restlessness against the state---.

Hi,
He should be reprimanded....but not executed. He is illogical but he did not incite any restlessness and you can gauge that from Erdogan's reaction. Diyanat will do something about it. The best way to tackle such people is a public debate with a highly knowledgeable scholar who can counter his bullshit and the loser is obligated to offer an apology and shun his wrong ideas. Any use of force will result in chaos in the society and his followers will react.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Reform exactly what?

I don't have time now and I will ignore the ad hominem but what exactly is "Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam" by Sir Allama Iqbal driving at? Copies are available online for instance from Iqbal Academy. Take the time to read it please.

 

[xenon54 out]

He is illogical but he did not incite any restlessness

Except telling man that its ok to beat wives.

Diyanat will do something about it.

No the justice will do something about him, Diyanet has no executive, legislative or judicative power, Ankara public prosecutor already opened a case against him.

and you can gauge that from Erdogan's reaction.

Erdogan usually never speaks about such remarks made by nobodies but the fact that he spoke so clearly shows it became a problem.
Involving Diyanet into this is nothing small, you have no idea of what Diyanet is, just to give you a glimpse of it, they have the power to order 80'000 mosques all over the country to recite prayers simultanously on loudspeakers during an ongoing coup, i doubt there was an inch in Turkey where the prayers werent heard.

The best way to tackle such people is a public debate with a highly knowledgeable scholar who can counter his bullshit and the loser is obligated to offer an apology and shun his wrong ideas. Any use of force will result in chaos in the society and his followers will react.

As you can see above Diyanet has always been the most powerful tool against religious extremism in Turkey, its sole reason for its existance is to keep self proclaimed extremist schoolars out of mosques and the reason for such an immense budget is thanks to the fact that all mosques in Turkey are goverment owned and have a goverment appointed Imams paid by diyanet a quite good salary.
You will hardly hear much about Diyanet activities, but its still a very powerful ministry.

Actually let me share you an article from 2008, Diyanet has been working on the topic for some time now, many people just never noticed it.

Turkey strives for 21st century form of Islam

 

[war&peace]

I don't have time now and I will ignore the ad hominem but what exactly is "Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam" by Sir Allama Iqbal driving at? Copies are available online for instance from Iqbal Academy. Take the time to read it please.

This should only be read after a person has thoroughly read the Holy Quran (with translation if needed) and has good knowledge of Hadeeth (two primary sources of knowledge in Islam and mandatory for every Muslim).

 

[Indus Pakistan]

This should only

Where is the source for this caveat on "Recontructruction of Religious Thought in Islam" . Or are you applying your own rendering on it.

ALLAH swt' has clearly said in Quran:

“And there is (a saving of) life for you in Al-Qisaas (the Law of Equality in punishment), O men of understanding, that you may become Al-Muttaqoon (the pious)” [al-Baqarah 2:179]

We ordained therein for them:"Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers" [al-Ma'idah 5:45 ]

And what did I say that contradicts this? The only thing I am doing is 'revolting' against the interpretation you and others like you make. You is "not Islam". So stop acting like a franchisee.

 

[gangsta_rap]

Ahh the Injun comes out.

Can you cut it out with the over-the-top prejudice for a day at least? Calm down for once..

Reported. (racism and prejudice)