Enforced Disappearances in Pakistan

[Lincoln]

THEY ARE TERRORISTS AND SEPARATISTS supporters


If you want endless terrorism then complain


But we need the security services to hunt these people down and remove them from society



Let the security services do their jobs


Secure the border,, no leaves or enters without a valid visa now



Gradual increase border strength and security



ISI is here to identify hostile elements



HUNT THEM DOWN
Torture them to get any and all information
Remove them from our society
Target their families




Or sit around,, cry about enforced disappeared,, then watch the same people support terrorism and separatism

One major problem with justifying enforced disappearances on the pretext of terrorism is that the people behind these disappearances can also do it for nefarious purposes, such as political engineering and coercion. You're putting your trust in the organization that they will extra-judicially pick up and deal in such a manner only people with links to terrorism, and this is a very misplaced trust for an organization like the ISI who are known to have politically engineered the landscape before, and undertaken illegal, self-damaging operations without the knowledge of the Government or many of the leadership.

The way forward is to speed up and improve your justice system so that these terrorists can be tried transparently, this will kill propaganda, and will also ensure that every official, and organization, does not escape the law or abuse their powers.

I have met Baloch, admittedly not many


Not many Baloch in UK or Kashmir, or if they were I didn't know them



The ones I met were fine,, normal Pakistani people


It's SIMPLE
We have a problem with terrorism,, some of our people are DONKEYS like the tribals
Fassadi, backwards, ignorant, poor understanding of history,, poor understanding of citizenship or the need to pay taxes and not just demand rights etc etc


They are quick to violence and terrorism



I can understand different points of view,, I even respect the right to discuss history and separation,, even if I disagree



BUT these people want society to stay still,, they refuse any development
create fassad all the time, stop road building, economic development or activity
they support terrorists and spread propaganda and are the fuel for terrorism and separatism


they live behind human rights activists and bullshit,,


Pakistan cannot have this fassad forever,, we need to develop for the sake of 230 million people


I understand the issue with the PTI,, I have been a long term IK supporter




But we MUST stop this terrorism and fassad coming out of these areas causing needless death, destruction and halt to development and life




The choice is simple we kill them or they kill us
I rather we kill them and try to develop society over their bones

Due to how much enforced disappearances have gone unchallenged, these tools are now being used to coerce politicians, and also civilians, they're changing the entire political landscape at whim and there is no one to question them. You can decide if this collateral, civilian supremacy, is worth those few 'terrorists' illegally picked up (who could've been judicially proceeded keeping things transparent, and also keep in mind, not all of them would've been terrorist elements, I have no doubt that many would've been innocents as anyone having a 'controversial' opinion in regards to is labeled as a terrorist) or not.

 

[Lincoln]

No

They have a reason to pick up PTI supporters,, I get it, don't get me wrong I hate it, but I get what they are trying to do


They don't have endless resources to pick up anyone for no reason

They are picking up terrorists, separatists and their supporters

THAT IS ESSENTIAL AND NEEDED
no Pakistani should oppose this unless you want endless terrorism and bomb blasts

They have endless resources. I know a few cases myself, where very ordinary people who took part in the protest, with no political standing or membership whatsoever, with no engagement in any anarchy or arson, were tracked by phone, and picked up. No warrants, nothing. Illegally.
You have to be naive to think that they won't do this.

 

[hussain0216]

One major problem with justifying enforced disappearances on the pretext of terrorism is that the people behind these disappearances can also do it for nefarious purposes, such as political engineering and coercion. You're putting your trust in the organization that they will extra-judicially pick up and deal in such a manner only people with links to terrorism, and this is a very misplaced trust for an organization like the ISI who are known to have politically engineered the landscape before, and undertaken illegal, self-damaging operations without the knowledge of the Government or many of the leadership.

The way forward is to speed up and improve your justice system so that these terrorists can be tried transparently, this will kill propaganda, and will also ensure that every official, and organization, does not escape the law or abuse their powers.



Due to how much enforced disappearances have gone unchallenged, these tools are now being used to coerce politicians, and also civilians, they're changing the entire political landscape at whim and there is no one to question them. You can decide if this collateral, civilian supremacy, is worth those few 'terrorists' illegally picked up (who could've been judicially proceeded keeping things transparent, and also keep in mind, not all of them would've been terrorist elements, I have no doubt that many would've been innocents as anyone having a 'controversial' opinion in regards to is labeled as a terrorist) or not.

And I agree, but waiting for Pakistan to improve its judicial system is like waiting for a prostitute to settle down and get married


In the meantime we have terrorism to deal with and we need to bring the hammer down on afghanis and other terrorists and separatists

We have had decades of this nonsense with too many people allowed to get away with support for these terrorists for ethnocentric reasons and stupidity


No more



Use the state to ruin the lives of these people, they are happy to murder and maim so why should their be any sympathy for them

 

[Mirzali Khan]

They have a reason to pick up PTI supporters,, I get it, don't get me wrong I hate it, but I get what they are trying to do

What are they trying to do?

PTI doesn't do terrorism nor Imran Khan hasn't advocated for any terrorism.

In the meantime we have terrorism to deal with and we need to bring the hammer down on afghanis and other terrorists and separatists

Why is PTI being targeted then?

PTI isn't a separatist party.

 

[hussain0216]

What are they trying to do?

PTI doesn't do terrorism nor Imran Khan hasn't advocated for any terrorism.



Why is PTI being targeted then?

PTI isn't a separatist party.

Of course no one supports PTI being targeted,, they have over stepped and have created needless havoc, they are too involved in politics and it has become dangerous


But terrorists and separatists are a different matter we can't just endlessly waste decade after decade waiting for the dopes to act like human beings

 

[delta2]

You got a lot of enemies. Seperatists are just one of many.

Separatists are just pawns.

In Pakistan you can easily find enough idiots for the right amount of money.

The police (long known for sexual torture) the lawyers, the judges and the courts are extremely corrupt in Pakistan. You can easily buy a judge and win a case. Even the post office has been corrupted and that was one of the few remaining places that used to work for the public.

Pakistan does not have any justice or law/order. Hasn't had it for decades. Especially ever since PMLN was formed and came into power, almost all institutions were completely ruined.

In Pakistan only a fool expects things to occur on a fair basis.

What are they trying to do?

PTI doesn't do terrorism nor Imran Khan hasn't advocated for any terrorism.



Why is PTI being targeted then?

PTI isn't a separatist party.

The PTI is actually going through the vetting process. Pakistan will eventually become a one-party state with a presidential system of sorts.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Of course no one supports PTI being targeted,, they have over stepped and have created needless havoc, they are too involved in politics and it has become dangerous


But terrorists and separatists are a different matter we can't just endlessly waste decade after decade waiting for the dopes to act like human beings

The problem is them being lumped together.

That’s why peoples minds on enforced disappearances are changing because of PTI being targeted.

Army keeps shooting itself in the foot.

 

[Goritoes]

Now the rest of Pakistani's understand when Army kidnapped and slaughter Urdu speaking boys under the guise of operation against MQM and fake Jinnah pur, and rest of Pakistani's were so pro Army for their brutality, now Punjabis, and others feeling the wrath and lets see who laugh now...

 

[my2cents]

No one is enforced disappeared

Do you think security services just randomly waste time and resources picking up random people?


Where their is smoke their is fire

These people are either terrorists or supporters of terrorists and separatists



Let the security services do their job and hunt these people down,, don't care about courts ,, I. Pakistan that is a waste of time

Just get rid of them
Get any and every last bit of information out of them
Then dispose of them

That is why Pakistan has such bad reputation for human rights. You don't win hearts and minds with this kind of approach.

 

[hussain0216]

That is why Pakistan has such bad reputation for human rights. You don't win hearts and minds with this kind of approach.

Were not here to win hearts and minds,, we don't have any major problems

For example we have more pashtun then Afghanistan, the land and area was sold by Afghanistan to the British empire,,, yet constant fassad comes out if the areas


Compare that to India,, a serious and real division based upon religion and history today manifesting itself in Kashmir, and other parts of India

Yet we are stuck dealing with these Yahoo's, when we have bigger enemies

 

[my2cents]

Div

Were not here to win hearts and minds,, we don't have any major problems

For example we have more pashtun then Afghanistan, the land and area was sold by Afghanistan to the British empire,,, yet constant fassad comes out if the areas


Compare that to India,, a serious and real division based upon religion and history today manifesting itself in Kashmir, and other parts of India

Yet we are stuck dealing with these Yahoo's, when we have bigger enemie

Kashmir was OK until jihadi from Pakistan entered J&K post Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan to create division among our people. Your subversive tactics won't change anything here. It will only falsify your narrative because of social media. See the development of our Kashmir vs your occupation. You can sell the chooran to your jahil awaam but educated awaam in both the countries know who is creating terrorism in our country.

 

[hussain0216]

Div

Kashmir was OK until jihadi from Pakistan entered J&K post Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan to create division among our people. Your subversive tactics won't change anything here. It will only falsify your narrative because of social media. See the development of our Kashmir vs your occupation. You can sell the chooran to your jahil awaam but educated awaam in both the countries know who is creating terrorism in our country.

It was NEVER ok

All you did was manage to cap the communal hatred across India

Now all it's taken is a few years of Modi and that cap has been blown off,,

If your pretending to be blind then, pretend away,, but you have to see what's happening on the ground across India now and the mass toxic communal hatred that is bumbling like a cauldron everywhere

You have to understand Kashmiri are not blind and that natural hatred for Hindus is being reinforced every single day with a million different toxic tweets from across

 

[khansaheeb]

What starts off as a thread on unlawful acts turns into a thread on attack the army. You guys need to keep this separate and stay focused.

 

[my2cents]

It was NEVER ok

All you did was manage to cap the communal hatred across India

Now all it's taken is a few years of Modi and that cap has been blown off,,

If your pretending to be blind then, pretend away,, but you have to see what's happening on the ground across India now and the mass toxic communal hatred that is bumbling like a cauldron everywhere

You have to understand Kashmiri are not blind and that natural hatred for Hindus is being reinforced every single day with a million different toxic tweets from across

We have a constitution that will take care of communal elements in our country. You have peddling the same narrative again and again but you see who is more progressive and inclusive.

 

[Lincoln]

And I agree, but waiting for Pakistan to improve its judicial system is like waiting for a prostitute to settle down and get married


In the meantime we have terrorism to deal with and we need to bring the hammer down on afghanis and other terrorists and separatists

We have had decades of this nonsense with too many people allowed to get away with support for these terrorists for ethnocentric reasons and stupidity


No more



Use the state to ruin the lives of these people, they are happy to murder and maim so why should their be any sympathy for them

And in the process, the Army has taken over the government and civilian machinery, I think the fact that the Pakistani people have no state left to run anymore is the bigger collateral.

What starts off as a thread on unlawful acts turns into a thread on attack the army. You guys need to keep this separate and stay focused.

Maybe perhaps because there is evidence that they're involved. We used to hear it in the news, from organizations, from governments' sham investigation committees, and now we witness these enforced dissapearences infront of us in major cities. The army isn't saint unable of unlawful acts. The thread is about unlawful acts, and people here are discussing the root, the perperators of these unlawful acts.