Embargoed F-16s: The untold story.

[TOPGUN]

Are you sure about that? Because the recent news is that PAF is looking to procure 8 more BLK52s, think about it, if FBR managed to collect Rs 200 billion in additional taxes this year and next, they can procure a 18 BLK52 batch right away.

Secondly, used MLUs with 50% life will be extremely hard to find. Why would anyone have kept F-16s and still have 50% life on them?

Is this true ? about 8 more blk 52's ? not have heard it anywhere brother ?

 

[Green Arrow]

Who is this air attaché Shahid? What is his full name? I hope it is not AVM (rtd) Shahid Lateef.

Has this been discussed with reference to the information given by Mrs Abida Hussein in her biography? And who you want to learn from the history? Us? or the corrupt politicians and civil/military bureaucrats whose 'black hole' stomachs never get filled with haram money?

I think it is Air Commodore Shahid JAVED

 

[SBD-3]

Please not again. This topic has been discussed a million times before. It's history - learn from it.

Apparently some people don't. If you would have remembered that Javid Ch also unearthed a similar scandal in JFT dealing with Chinese. But this fraction remains above law. Perhaps why they don't learn like ever.

 

[salman-1]

Used F-16 is the most hard task our Air force has to do. Its not like Mirage story. Air forces have not scrapped or made big reserves of boxed F-16 these days. Every country is fiscally tight and cannot afford big war reserves like 60's. PAF have lost many opportunities of buying new hard ware due to our POLITICIANS. In ninties Zardari shb made the MK2 deal impossible due to agents invoved and Pressler conditions.
Our only Air chief Suleman shb was enthusiast of updating air force. All these Air refuellers and Awacs were procured ,mainly by his efforts. FC-20 was also conceived during his tenure and DSI in it for J-10B were designed on our request. Now it has been dropped in favour of used F-16 which we only got 13 instead of 58 FC-20. Although one squadron was being offered for free. Still China can provide 38-40 a year with latest tech. Now PAF is looking for 36-40 FC-31 which is in middle of any proposed development. Doesn't have even engine finalised for it.
God help us

 

[Bashido]

Very confusing post. On one hand, you admitted to the corruption in the military's ranks. On the other hand, you pushed the entire envelop back to the politicians. Nice. The country saw the "progress" in "dictatorship" because of the American Military goods and services your country was providing and the transportation and related businesses were thriving. The dictator didn't come up with "economic reforms" that the country's economy grew truly. It was a "as needed" growth to support the US / NATO forces in Afghanistan.

To set the records straight, all defense deals are usually worth billions. In a country like Pakistan, where the military has final say in majority of the matters, these defense deals come out of the GHQ almost ready to go. The generals and all in Pakistan, have already been accounted for, as far as "referral fees" aka, the kick backs are concerned. Then, of course the civilians add their percentage on top of it.
On other deals like energy production, dams, etc, etc, every political party has its own share of retired generals who are involved. They then provide the necessary percentage to "active" officers as needed. I would exclude Gen. Raheel Sharif and Kiyani from this pool however. These two are clean. Mushy, Baig and there was another one, were the most corrupt in recent times.

lol why you giving immunity to kiyani??? may be you don't know about the ring road project given to kiyani brothers by passing Nespak and FWO.....

 

[Viper0011.]

lol why you giving immunity to kiyani??? may be you don't know about the ring road project given to kiyani brothers by passing Nespak and FWO.....

I am not immunity to anyone. I am however, saying that he didn't come in through throwing the constitution out of the window and by putting his opponents in jail. The rest is all good, he has the right to use his connections and get business, as long as its not illegal. Everyone, whether in East or West, uses his influence to get business....

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Shahid Latif never served as Air Attache' ...He himself was persecuted for not derailing the JF-17 Thunder Project ...He was ousted by Zardari under US pressure ....!

Shahid Lateef would have been real asset to PAF if made the CAS, instead half wit people were promoted and he was not. However, most of these Air Marshals have some funny business going on. In case of Shahid Lateef is the SPADA deal, which he made good with ACM Tanveer, via SELEX ITALIA agent Asad Zahoor. Today, he sits on TV and talks big against corruption, but at that time supported a deal which was rife with corruption and worse possible decision in history of PAF.

 

[Pulsar]

Not the exact translation, but this is what I read about F-16 deal:

I don't think that is correct. The Pakistanis are getting these 8 F-16s for free as it is being paid for by the US themselves as part of the Coalition Support Funds allocated to Pakistan amounting to $800 million.

Either way, Lockheed Martin and General Dynamics will be laughing all the way to the bank! Plus their manufacturing assembly lines would continue providing jobs to hundreds. That's the reason why Obama is keen to gift these planes to Pakistan. He gets a plus from the Americans for job creation! That's the crux of the issue, not that Pakistan really needs these multi million dollar F-16s for screwing the $2 TTP whackos in FATA!

 

[CHI RULES]

Shahid Lateef would have been real asset to PAF if made the CAS, instead half wit people were promoted and he was not. However, most of these Air Marshals have some funny business going on. In case of Shahid Lateef is the SPADA deal, which he made good with ACM Tanveer, via SELEX ITALIA agent Asad Zahoor. Today, he sits on TV and talks big against corruption, but at that time supported a deal which was rife with corruption and worse possible decision in history of PAF.

Sir, pls enlighten us why SPADA deal was worst?

 

[Syed_Adeel]

This is a recent column from Mr. Rauf Klasra. I am posting it in this thread because the column is about the embargoed F-16s. Mr. Klasra tells the story behind the embargoed F-16 as it is narrated by Mrs. Abida Hussein in her recent autobiography.

View attachment 185865

This is so wrongly written.
This topic has been discussed on tv already and former PAF commander described the whole thing.
Its projected in a way that PAF did corruption while the money was used for infrastructure and that was spent under monitoring.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Sir, pls enlighten us why SPADA deal was worst?

MBDA SPADA is a CLOS, command to line of sight SAM system. That means, the missile is always dependent on the ground tracking radar, called Fire Control Radar. It is a hodge podge design, the radar is from Thales Raytheon, and some components are American while other European. With the FCR at ground level, and missile being semi active, only targets in line of sight of the FCR can be engaged or fired upon. If FCR is jammed, which will be likely in case of enemy package in range of SPADA, the missile will not lock on the target. The ECCM of the FCR is only basic, and can easily be fooled by Airborne ECCM.

SPADA is an italian license produced Sparrow missile, which itself is obsolete. The other candidates at the time were not semi active homing, but active homing systems, which were lot more capable than SPADA. However, SPADA was selected due to the massive bribes involved starting from ACM Tanveer, Shahid Latif, all the way down to Group Captain Ahmar Shazad, then director OR&D, and now AVM and made DG projects by current chief in sympathy.

The Serviceability of SPADA, not alone its efficacy in the Pakistani theatre, is highly questionable. It is a disaster that nobody dares to investigate

By the way, most of the contracts done by ACM Tanveer, Shahid Latif, and Ahmar Shahzad were corrupt and failed to achieve the desired technical and operational goals. Other projects like IL78, ATCR/PAR, and FALCO are also highly questionable, but instead of the key person being investigated, he has been promoted and rewarded. I guess he keeps the money flowing. Lot of honest people wonder how Ahmar Shazad is surviving till now.

 

[volatile]

MBDA SPADA is a CLOS, command to line of sight SAM system. That means, the missile is always dependent on the ground tracking radar, called Fire Control Radar. It is a hodge podge design, the radar is from Thales Raytheon, and some components are American while other European. With the FCR at ground level, and missile being semi active, only targets in line of sight of the FCR can be engaged or fired upon. If FCR is jammed, which will be likely in case of enemy package in range of SPADA, the missile will not lock on the target. The ECCM of the FCR is only basic, and can easily be fooled by Airborne ECCM.

SPADA is an italian license produced Sparrow missile, which itself is obsolete. The other candidates at the time were not semi active homing, but active homing systems, which were lot more capable than SPADA. However, SPADA was selected due to the massive bribes involved starting from ACM Tanveer, Shahid Latif, all the way down to Group Captain Ahmar Shazad, then director OR&D, and now AVM and made DG projects by current chief in sympathy.

The Serviceability of SPADA, not alone its efficacy in the Pakistani theatre, is highly questionable. It is a disaster that nobody dares to investigate

By the way, most of the contracts done by ACM Tanveer, Shahid Latif, and Ahmar Shahzad were corrupt and failed to achieve the desired technical and operational goals. Other projects like IL78, ATCR/PAR, and FALCO are also highly questionable, but instead of the key person being investigated, he has been promoted and rewarded. I guess he keeps the money flowing. Lot of honest people wonder how Ahmar Shazad is surviving till now.

Holy Cow ? Even though i dont know about any of this but from professional point of view you raised a very important question .
Q. If more capable systems were available at that time why they were not choosen
A. Only two reasons .
1. Conflict of interest
2. In competency (to choose from a system which is inferior)

I always have this feeling about JF17 programe ,mean how much it is capable ,If 17 means supeiror than 16 it should take lead by the way no airforce takes chances on 2nd Teir that much as we are taking on F16 .(which is supposed to be 2nd Tier) according to many PAF people logic .If thunder remain dependent upon F16 for protection and coverage then its bad .Any ways lets hope some day all these things will be acknowledged ,investigated thoroughly

 

[CHI RULES]

MBDA SPADA is a CLOS, command to line of sight SAM system. That means, the missile is always dependent on the ground tracking radar, called Fire Control Radar. It is a hodge podge design, the radar is from Thales Raytheon, and some components are American while other European. With the FCR at ground level, and missile being semi active, only targets in line of sight of the FCR can be engaged or fired upon. If FCR is jammed, which will be likely in case of enemy package in range of SPADA, the missile will not lock on the target. The ECCM of the FCR is only basic, and can easily be fooled by Airborne ECCM.

SPADA is an italian license produced Sparrow missile, which itself is obsolete. The other candidates at the time were not semi active homing, but active homing systems, which were lot more capable than SPADA. However, SPADA was selected due to the massive bribes involved starting from ACM Tanveer, Shahid Latif, all the way down to Group Captain Ahmar Shazad, then director OR&D, and now AVM and made DG projects by current chief in sympathy.

The Serviceability of SPADA, not alone its efficacy in the Pakistani theatre, is highly questionable. It is a disaster that nobody dares to investigate

By the way, most of the contracts done by ACM Tanveer, Shahid Latif, and Ahmar Shahzad were corrupt and failed to achieve the desired technical and operational goals. Other projects like IL78, ATCR/PAR, and FALCO are also highly questionable, but instead of the key person being investigated, he has been promoted and rewarded. I guess he keeps the money flowing. Lot of honest people wonder how Ahmar Shazad is surviving till now.

Dear Sir, thanks for detailed reply, i wonder how do you got such sensitive info. It is duty of PAF pros if available on this forum to give some sort of explanation.

(it is no hidden truth that corruption prevails in all of ammos supplied to eastern countries, but mostly beneficiaries are western suppliers and their so called honest executives meanwhile even dishonest eastern office bearers got downgraded stuff with peanuts in the name of kickbacks/commissions.)

We have Augosta 90 subs case where all fingers were directed towards French high ranking officials and certain polticians. Further in the name of lobbying Pak/Indian govt spend millions on US politicians which is form of civilized corruption.

 

[Syed Hussain]

This also explains the so many confusing factors about the decisions made by PAF in more recent years. Regarding the choices taken in the JF-17 program, the resolve of sticking to the "trojan cows" like F-16, dropping of FC-20 etc.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

This guy is a top notch chutya!

Language?

Dear Sir, thanks for detailed reply, i wonder how do you got such sensitive info. It is duty of PAF pros if available on this forum to give some sort of explanation.

(it is no hidden truth that corruption prevails in all of ammos supplied to eastern countries, but mostly beneficiaries are western suppliers and their so called honest executives meanwhile even dishonest eastern office bearers got downgraded stuff with peanuts in the name of kickbacks/commissions.)

We have Augosta 90 subs case where all fingers were directed towards French high ranking officials and certain polticians. Further in the name of lobbying Pak/Indian govt spend millions on US politicians which is form of civilized corruption.

Corruption takes two, the italians are equally corrupt.

Dear Sir, thanks for detailed reply, i wonder how do you got such sensitive info. It is duty of PAF pros if available on this forum to give some sort of explanation.

(it is no hidden truth that corruption prevails in all of ammos supplied to eastern countries, but mostly beneficiaries are western suppliers and their so called honest executives meanwhile even dishonest eastern office bearers got downgraded stuff with peanuts in the name of kickbacks/commissions.)

We have Augosta 90 subs case where all fingers were directed towards French high ranking officials and certain polticians. Further in the name of lobbying Pak/Indian govt spend millions on US politicians which is form of civilized corruption.

I am not sharing any sensitive information. The technical data is all online.