Electricity should be sold at a different price in Lahore and Peshawar: Taimur Khan Jhagra

[ziaulislam]

You have gall to call out fair distribution when KP and Balochistan get huge amount of NFC award just on basis of population. Especially when 95% of GDP and revenue are generated by punjab and karachi.

KP and Balochistan share in GDP and revenue generation, 5%. Share in taxes collected through out Pakistan. 25%.

See why justifying theft just because of dam which was build by Punjab and Karachi money doesn't make one bit of sense. koi sharam hoti hai koi haya hoti hai

Dude what are you smoking ???
Everybody gets Nfc award based upon their population

Why do you want it to be?? more based upon race ???

Now you want to change another norm that is established globally?

If you don't like how things are done internationally just ask KP and balochistan to separated

Or do things how they are done everywhere else in the world where federal taxes are divided based upon population!!

Remember only 50% go to provinces federation still takes 50% and then takes that builds a motorway in islamad to Lahore or orange line(federal granteed commerical loans while provinces can't even take any loans with several hydro projects blocked based upon this

PS

revenues are by most collected by SINDH because all companies are registered in Karachi !!!!

Exactly the issue with Bengal.

Pakistani elite of central punjab Should either follow democratic norms; accepted global standards of federism or should just call it a day...

Trust me unlike Bengal who had no resources(& is still doing better) kp and balochistan have ample resources will be better off separate.

Just the hydro production is more then all the amount it gets from the federation

Bottom line
Either acceptglobal norms and 1973 consitution
Or call it day

 

[Jango]

Transmission lines are also being run on IPP mode, the companies which lay the transmission lines charge capacity charges, Terbella power station would produce only 500MW in winters but we have to pay capacity charges for 4500MW capacity charges. Wil KP allowed us to shift these idle capacity payment to the province too??

Only the Matiari line (the contract you posted, and a few others I think under CPEC) are under IPP mode.

Rest all are owned by NTDC.

Looking at the topic holistically though, our whole power generation and transmission system, including electric and gas is messed up to the core.

Dunya jo kaam 100 saal pehle kar gayi hai ham abhi tak unhi main uljhay huay hain.

Our government does not want to let go of it's cash cows and political clout. It regulates everything, and in most cases, regulates one end of the chain but not the other.

Fuel, power, gas, water, wheat, flour, sugar, every single thing. Government has no business running enterprises. Deregulate everything and introduce strong and powerful regulators. That is the solution.

A province or a DISCO can buy electricity from whoever they want at whatever rate they want.

We currently run a weird hodge podge jdhr adhi cheezain sooba akarta hai, adha federal, and then they both keep shifting the blame.

 

[muhammadhafeezmalik]

Only the Matiari line (the contract you posted, and a few others I think under CPEC) are under IPP mode.

Rest all are owned by NTDC.

Looking at the topic holistically though, our whole power generation and transmission system, including electric and gas is messed up to the core.

Dunya jo kaam 100 saal pehle kar gayi hai ham abhi tak unhi main uljhay huay hain.

Our government does not want to let go of it's cash cows and political clout. It regulates everything, and in most cases, regulates one end of the chain but not the other.

Fuel, power, gas, water, wheat, flour, sugar, every single thing. Government has no business running enterprises. Deregulate everything and introduce strong and powerful regulators. That is the solution.

A province or a DISCO can buy electricity from whoever they want at whatever rate they want.

We currently run a weird hodge podge jdhr adhi cheezain sooba akarta hai, adha federal, and then they both keep shifting the blame.

NTDC does not transmit electricity fi sabeel allah

Yes, our government does not want to privatise anything, be it is in profit or in loss. Fuel, gas, electricity, real estate, cement, steel, wheat, minerals, flour, fertiliser are blue chip stocks, our government earns from these sector, they can't let it go. Every government commit IMF to privatise these blood sucking institutions and than takes a u-turn, to bridge the gap they impose more taxes on poor people.

We should end this single buyer concept, we should allow private sector to setup their distribution infrastructure to end monopoly.

UK started privatisation of distribution sector in 1989 to commercial & industrial sector and from 1996 they end monopoly of supplying electricity to domestic sector. This brought competition in rates and quality of service but this year due to high inflation UK is also witnessing electricity theft upto 440 million pounds.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Dude what are you smoking ???
Everybody gets Nfc award based upon their population

Why do you want it to be?? more based upon race ???

Now you want to change another norm that is established globally?

If you don't like how things are done internationally just ask KP and balochistan to separated

Or do things how they are done everywhere else in the world where federal taxes are divided based upon population!!

Remember only 50% go to provinces federation still takes 50% and then takes that builds a motorway in islamad to Lahore or orange line(federal granteed commerical loans while provinces can't even take any loans with several hydro projects blocked based upon this

PS

revenues are by most collected by SINDH because all companies are registered in Karachi !!!!

Exactly the issue with Bengal.

Pakistani elite of central punjab Should either follow democratic norms; accepted global standards of federism or should just call it a day...

Trust me unlike Bengal who had no resources(& is still doing better) kp and balochistan have ample resources will be better off separate.

Just the hydro production is more then all the amount it gets from the federation

Bottom line
Either acceptglobal norms and 1973 consitution
Or call it day

Why you keep justifying theft?

Do you know how much India pay per unit for dams to states? What global norm are you talking about? You want Pakistan to pay KP rs50 per unit for hydel power when global norm is Rs5. Wow

The only resource KP have is under mostly non-pashtun areas like Hazara. Balochistan will die from lack of water if not for Pakistan. You shouldn't compare them with Bangladesh but Afghanistan, thats your peak potential without Pakistan.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Everybody gets Nfc award based upon their population

Why do you want it to be?? more based upon race ???

Now you want to change another norm that is established globally?

If you don't like how things are done internationally just ask KP and balochistan to separated

Or do things how they are done everywhere else in the world where federal taxes are divided based upon population!!

That certainly is not true. For example, in India, the National Finance Commission only assigns 25% of the allocation based on population while prioritizing the significance of each state's efforts in mobilizing its own revenue and managing tax collections as the primary factor in resource distribution across states/provinces.

In contrast, Pakistan follows a system where the federation primarily allocates funds to provinces based on their population. This approach discourages provincial governments from actively working on population control. Consequently, the less-developed regions like Balochistan, KP, FATA, and interior Sindh experience rapid population growth, which ultimately places a burden on the educated, tax-paying citizens of Punjab and Karachi.

Remember only 50% go to provinces federation still takes 50% and then takes that builds a motorway in islamad to Lahore or orange line(federal granteed commerical loans while provinces can't even take any loans with several hydro projects blocked based upon this

Out of the 43% share that the federal government receives, nearly two-thirds are dedicated to servicing loan repayments, with the remaining portion allocated to defense and bailouts, leaving only a small amount. This results in a minimal allocation to Punjab and other provinces for development etc., and even here Punjab gets less than others

The fact remains that Punjab receives significantly less than what it contributes to the national exchequer. Still, the ethno-fasicts from other provinces have the audacity to blame Punjab for consuming their (non-existent) resources. So, indeed, let's consider this a wrap.

 

[ziaulislam]

Why you keep justifying theft?

Do you know how much India pay per unit for dams to states? What global norm are you talking about? You want Pakistan to pay KP rs50 per unit for hydel power when global norm is Rs5. Wow

The only resource KP have is under mostly non-pashtun areas like Hazara. Balochistan will die from lack of water if not for Pakistan. You shouldn't compare them with Bangladesh but Afghanistan, thats your peak potential without Pakistan.

Look listen carefully
When you want to debate something you stick to principles and don't tangent elsewhere

Principle 1
Pakistan is federation
Principle 2
Provincial Resources are under federation and taxes are collected by center who then keeps half and distribute the rest


Because of this resource prices differ within a federation

USA doesn't has same gas oil or food prices
Pakistan also doesn't has same food prices but center took all balochistan gas and KP water resources stating we won't equality for people of central punjab

But why not equality in food
Every year punjab blocks food transport to KP claiming smuggling but who controls smuggling??

The other argument is center aksa this was built by federation OUT RIGHT LIE. All these projects were built with LOAN /WB AB AIOB and those loans came with project grantee if centered allowed provinces to get loans they would built it too. Provinces are not allowed to build a project above 1 b$ till very recently

PS

For God sake go and see Nepra Rates for hydro projects

The new hydro IPPs are providing power at 11.5 cents that comes at 39 rupees at today exchange

Question is why did central punjab politican allowed that too happen

 

[ziaulislam]

Lastly wapada is selling 30b units of hydro at price of 4-5 rupees not 50 rupees and not 39 rupees it's paying to private hydro

And KP was suppose to get 1 rupee per unit which was like 25b/yrs and so far it got nothing

You are in talks to buy VERY CHEAP HYDRO from Kazakhstan at cost of 6.5 +1.5 cents which is 27-30 rupees

Afghanistan will get 5rupees

 

[muhammadhafeezmalik]

 

[Jango]

NTDC does not transmit electricity fi sabeel allah

To mainay kab kaha kar rahay hain, it's just not IPP.

Yes, our government does not want to privatise anything, be it is in profit or in loss. Fuel, gas, electricity, real estate, cement, steel, wheat, minerals, flour, fertiliser are blue chip stocks, our government earns from these sector, they can't let it go. Every government commit IMF to privatise these blood sucking institutions and than takes a u-turn, to bridge the gap they impose more taxes on poor people.

We should end this single buyer concept, we should allow private sector to setup their distribution infrastructure to end monopoly.

UK started privatisation of distribution sector in 1989 to commercial & industrial sector and from 1996 they end monopoly of supplying electricity to domestic sector. This brought competition in rates and quality of service but this year due to high inflation UK is also witnessing electricity theft upto 440 million pounds.

View attachment 951898

As for the rest, I agree.

View attachment 952003

That last line tells me nothing is going to happen.

The only way we know how to do things, adhoc cosmetic efforts.

ATC bana lo, banking court bana lo, shariat court bana lo, military court bana lo, family court bana lo....what the heck is the problem with existing courts?

 

[Meengla]

Pakistan is the most central govt even after the 18th amendment in the World

And yet every time the people of Karachi complained about the 'discrimination' or 'lack of resources', Imran regime's excuse was the 18th Amendment. You see: Some of us, who are not cultist, have kept up with what was said and done and by whom instead of putting blind faith in a Messiah. It will be too low for me to bring up Imran's lies and propaganda--not hard to find. Others too do that but then they were/are already discredited and don't bear the high-banners of Riyasat e Medina!! Imran was to be held on high standards but I think that was asking for way too much!!

The 200 billion claim by KP is disputed amount, it is no excuse to steal electricity.

Per my understanding, there are areas in KP where paying electricity bill is not even a requirement!! But then they live in several centuries back anyway, happily conjoined twins of their Afghan Taliban brothers.

He has a very good point. KPK produces all this electricity. Same problem we have in AJK. We can be sat at the side of Mangla dam and not get electricity - meanwhile prices are through the roof.

And Karachi provides the bulk of the revenue. So??

Tarbela is in Hazara which is technically extension of punjab and not pathan area. Hazara now have its own DISCO and recovery there is similar to Punjab. Again shows culture of theft goes beyond provincial borders. Why people in Hazara pay their bills despite having biggest dam in country?

Hazara is indeed an extension of Punjab-- as Punjabi as Imran Khan

 

[ziaulislam]

And yet every time the people of Karachi complained about the 'discrimination' or 'lack of resources', Imran regime's excuse was the 18th Amendment. You see: Some of us, who are not cultist, have kept up with what was said and done and by whom instead of putting blind faith in a Messiah. It will be too low for me to bring up Imran's lies and propaganda--not hard to find. Others too do that but then they were/are already discredited and don't bear the high-banners of Riyasat e Medina!! Imran was to be held on high standards but I think that was asking for way too much!!


Per my understanding, there are areas in KP where paying electricity bill is not even a requirement!! But then they live in several centuries back anyway, happily conjoined twins of their Afghan Taliban brothers.



And Karachi provides the bulk of the revenue. So??



Hazara is indeed an extension of Punjab-- as Punjabi as Imran Khan

Yes.
Imran Khan had a case in supreme Court to implement local bodies elections
Pretty sure every educated person including you know about that case in the courts

Second solution was free and fair census
Well karachi representative MQM got that done under their nose

 

[ziaulislam]

I have a busy life, trying to survive the latest round of jobs cuts in my corp.

I have not changed my views about Imran and about what needs to be done in Pakistan. I just don't like repeating the same things over and over again, only to fall on deaf ears. I have acute sense for Cults and I know not to waste my energy--my precious time--on them.

And generally I have been correct not just about Pakistan but about global events, including I had predicted the thaw between KSA-Iran just 1-2 years ago where I was poo poohd, and I asserted in some other posts my predictions about the evolution of Pakistan, about the inevitable and near future peace between Indian and Pakistan, and about Pakistan possibly being sucked into the Ukraine-Russia war .

Why do I feel confident about my positions? Because I don't approach anything from too much of an ideological angle--I do so mostly from human psychology, informed by human history.

Cultists can never understand me-- a Pakistani nationalist with 'humanism' as ideology, but with a pragmatic approach.

Glade that you made it
Agree we need asim munir to rule
I think parliament and assemblies should be abolished

This can save around 50-60b per year

Why you keep justifying theft?

Do you know how much India pay per unit for dams to states? What global norm are you talking about? You want Pakistan to pay KP rs50 per unit for hydel power when global norm is Rs5. Wow

The only resource KP have is under mostly non-pashtun areas like Hazara. Balochistan will die from lack of water if not for Pakistan. You shouldn't compare them with Bangladesh but Afghanistan, thats your peak potential without Pakistan.

Lol why do you keep justifying modi killing in Gujrat

(See how you are surprised, exactly my response)

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Why electricity should be cost different for different areas? Just make it free who consumes less than 200 unit. Do something for poor people. Give them basic necessaries.. there should be no charge of electricity for poor people.

 

[ziaulislam]

Back to the topic.

Per 1973 consitution energy should be devolved immediately to provinces just like how food is

Why electricity should be cost different for different areas? Just make it free who consumes less than 200 unit. Do something for poor people. Give them basic necessaries.. there should be no charge of electricity for poor people.

Should or shouldnt be different is a provincial topic ..that's what we are trying to say..

It's not a center topic

Just like how it in every part of the world from Britain to america

 

[M. Sarmad]

Back to the topic.

Per 1973 consitution energy should be devolved immediately to provinces just like how food is

The 1973 Constitution definitely doesn't have anything like that in it... not sure where you picked up that idea


Here is what the Constitution actually says:

Article 157: Electricity​

1. The Federal Government may in any Province construct or cause to be constructed hydro-electric or thermal power installations or grid stations for the generation of electricity and lay or cause to be laid inter-provincial transmission lines

The 18th amendment added this to article 157: "Provided that the Federal Government, prior to taking a decision to construct or cause to be constructed, hydro-electric power stations in any Province, shall consult the Provincial Government concerned."

The 18th Amendment abolished the concurrent list and shifted electricity to Part II of the Federal Legislative List. While provinces have the power to impose taxes and set tariffs for electricity distribution within their boundaries, electricity production remains primarily under federal jurisdiction.