Electricity should be sold at a different price in Lahore and Peshawar: Taimur Khan Jhagra

[muhammadhafeezmalik]

Jhagra sahab is partly right. the solution lies somewhere in between.

KP should have power over water, but electricity from federal funded schemes are not KPK's to begin with. as even the land for power plant is bought at market rate. it belongs to the federal govt or whoever the investor is now. same goes for gas. this BS about profit payments needs to end, as they already receive royalty for practically doing nothing. the provincial govt can use its funds to buy a stake into the plant. and then it can claim profit payments. same goes for all provinces.

as for provincially funded schemes, then yes, they should receive it first. once their need is satisfied only then should it be transferred to national grid.

Finally, DISCOs must be privatized.

DISCOs must be handed over to provinces, they should collect the electricity charges against electricity they purchased from CPPA-G.

Where?



Don't you see the huge problem in this whole scheme?

Thora to damagh ko hath mar yar.

The whole argument built by Me. Jhagra reflects this.

 

[ziaulislam]

Jhagra sahab is partly right. the solution lies somewhere in between.

KP should have power over water, but electricity from federal funded schemes are not KPK's to begin with. as even the land for power plant is bought at market rate. it belongs to the federal govt or whoever the investor is now. same goes for gas. this BS about profit payments needs to end, as they already receive royalty for practically doing nothing. the provincial govt can use its funds to buy a stake into the plant. and then it can claim profit payments. same goes for all provinces.

as for provincially funded schemes, then yes, they should receive it first. once their need is satisfied only then should it be transferred to national grid.

Finally, DISCOs must be privatized.

Solution is in 1973 consitution that was agreed upon all.

It's gives some rights on revenues from natural resources to provinces while keeping it cheaper for everyone

People of elite punjab thinks that minorities provinces and regions (like south PUNAJB) will die of hunger without them

Reality is they will do much better by simply selling those natural resources

Yet they are balmed for everything

Surely KP 30% of power is stolen but how much power they consume and how much they produce and how much money is pending by federal govt in revenue sharing

These simple numbers will tell the story

One thing is weird is why desco shy away from sharing technical losses of industrial regions where there shouldn't be any losses to begin with

DISCOs must be handed over to provinces, they should collect the electricity charges against electricity they purchased from CPPA-G.



The whole argument built by Me. Jhagra reflects this.

Provinces should only take descos if they are given revenuea they owe

KP shouybe given descos but also the revenue it owes to federal govt

Mr. Jhagra says it is their right to steal electricity.

Yes he is saying federation largest consumer thinks it's their right to steal power and not pay 200b rupees in pending to KPK in 8000 mw it's producing at minimum rates..by not paying it's simple devaluing the amount

Now who cares about 200b in today valuation lol

 

[Meengla]

Dear sir, have you noticed one thing? Humaray @Meengla sahib ghayab huyay hain, the last time he kindly disappeared was after his favourite NCM vote and he magically reappeared when IK was in trouble lol. (This is my personal opinion, I could be wrong but I don’t think I am)

I have a busy life, trying to survive the latest round of jobs cuts in my corp.

I have not changed my views about Imran and about what needs to be done in Pakistan. I just don't like repeating the same things over and over again, only to fall on deaf ears. I have acute sense for Cults and I know not to waste my energy--my precious time--on them.

And generally I have been correct not just about Pakistan but about global events, including I had predicted the thaw between KSA-Iran just 1-2 years ago where I was poo poohd, and I asserted in some other posts my predictions about the evolution of Pakistan, about the inevitable and near future peace between Indian and Pakistan, and about Pakistan possibly being sucked into the Ukraine-Russia war .

Why do I feel confident about my positions? Because I don't approach anything from too much of an ideological angle--I do so mostly from human psychology, informed by human history.

Cultists can never understand me-- a Pakistani nationalist with 'humanism' as ideology, but with a pragmatic approach.

 

[muz20152]

I have a busy life, trying to survive the latest round of jobs cuts in my corp.

I have not changed my views about Imran and about what needs to be done in Pakistan. I just don't like repeating the same things over and over again, only to fall on deaf ears. I have acute sense for Cults and I know not to waste my energy--my precious time--on them.

And generally I have been correct not just about Pakistan but about global events, including I had predicted the thaw between KSA-Iran just 1-2 years ago where I was poo poohd, and I asserted in some other posts my predictions about the evolution of Pakistan, about the inevitable and near future peace between Indian and Pakistan, and about Pakistan possibly being sucked into the Ukraine-Russia war .

Why do I feel confident about my positions? Because I don't approach anything from too much of an ideological angle--I do so mostly from human psychology, informed by human history.

Cultists can never understand me-- a Pakistani nationalist with 'humanism' as ideology, but with a pragmatic approach.

Shit storm gonna start any minute now since one of the "great intellectual" of the PDF finally decided to touch this topic.

 

[S.Y.A]

Solution is in 1973 consitution that was agreed upon all.

It's gives some rights on revenues from natural resources to provinces while keeping it cheaper for everyone

People of elite punjab thinks that minorities provinces and regions (like south PUNAJB) will die of hunger without them

Reality is they will do much better by simply selling those natural resources

Yet they are balmed for everything

Surely KP 30% of power is stolen but how much power they consume and how much they produce and how much money is pending by federal govt in revenue sharing

These simple numbers will tell the story

One thing is weird is why desco shy away from sharing technical losses of industrial regions where there shouldn't be any losses to begin with

dont care what Punjab thinks or doesnt think. only pointing out what should be apparent. if the province has developed those resources using its own budget, then by all means do with it as you please. if someone else has purchased the land, the rights, and invested own money to develop said resource, then they get the right to do as they please.

how much money is pending by federal govt in revenue sharing

like i said, revenue should only be shared if the province had any part to play in developing said resource. if it sold it to the federal govt or a private party or whoever, then they should have no claim.

i sell my car to a guy who uses it for rental purposes, should i know demand a share in his earnings? should the OEM (toyota, honda etc.)?

 

[HAIDER]

Electricity should be sold at a different prices in Lahore and Peshawar: Taimur Khan Jhagra
The caretaker federal government has decided to end the existing system for sales and distribution of electricity and Caretaker Prime Minister Anwaarul Haq Kakar has approved sending a summary to the federal cabinet to hand over power distribution companies (DISCOs) to the provinces.

In response PTI's greatest brain Ex-provincial finance minister Taimur Khan Jhagra made following demands and suggestions:

- Theft in Peshawar Division should not charged to Peshawar Division only, but should be paid by whole of Pakistan.
- Though the federal government built the dams in KP but other than royalty we should also given the profit.
- To ensure fairness and quality service, addressing insufficient transmission capacity and investment disparities in KP and PESCO is essential when decoupling pricing.
- Theft in Peshawer Devision is justified because KP is currently providing hundreds of megawatts of free electricity to the national grid from provincial dams due to the federal government's delay in finalizing tariffs, PTI was in power for four years.
- Until you don't increase transmission capacity of PESCO as compared to Punjab, we would continue using the stolen electricity.
- If you us to pay for the price of electricity we use, give us full rights over gas we produce.
- We will not catch electricity thieves, because federal government has not caught FATA electricity thieves in the past.
- Capacity payments should only be paid by Punjab, it is not the problem of KP.
- Moral: Make free & fair election, we will decide after that if we would continue or stop teft of electricity.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1697327799890227424

View attachment 950256

Here are my assertions:

- Tarbela, Ghazi Brotha, and all the newly constructed dams are in the Hazara Division. There is no electricity theft there. You will never hear of Hazara Division's politicians resorting to such silly argument because theft, robbery, and any illegal activities are carried out with Afghan pride in Afghan and their dissidents' dominated areas.

- Ayub Khan Pathan sold Punjab's three rivers to India and built Tarbela and Mangla dams. In return, what did Punjab receive? Tarbela and others were constructed with federal funds. In ten years, you also could have built dams with KPK's funds and provided free electricity. The Constitution permits it. Your failure is your own. Now you have come up with the Pashtun card??

- Under the constitution, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (KP) receives royalty from WAPDA at a rate of Rs 1.1 per unit as a water usage charge, which does not exceed 30 billion annually. Why allow people from other regions engage in additional electricity theft by investing new funds to improve the T&D (Transmission and Distribution) system in KP, when more electricity for thieves means more theft and more losses?

- People in Azad Kashmir are provided electricity at a rate of Rs 2.59 per unit by the National Grid, while the local government sells it at a higher rate. If Azad Kashmir generates electricity under the IPP (Independent Power Producer) mode, they could receive electricity for at least 10 cents per unit, which translates to 35 to 40 rupees. This is similar to the situation with the electricity thieves in KP. They can generate electricity and put it to use.

- If Punjab generates electricity from RLNG and nuclear, coal, it can provide electricity at half the price of Rs 70 per unit due to today's theft. You were in government in KP for 10 years, you would have made electricity in Pashtun areas. The constitution allows.

- Afghans made their livelihood by robbery and theft for centuries. The modern state system do not allow with that. If you were not a part of Pakistan today, you would be of Afghanistan. The situation of Afghanistan is in front of everyone. Learn to live with civility and behave like civilized people. Fulfill your responsibility. Do not steal.

- Punjab government should make efforts to open trade in electricity and other goods with India. If trade can be done from Afghanistan, why can't cheap vehicles, commodities and electricity be taken from India? Terminate the visa for Nankana Sahib. Punjabi cement is in great demand in Indian Punjab.

View attachment 950285
Page # 64

View attachment 950286

Fact: PESCO provided with more funds per consumer than the DISCOs in Punjab & Sindh.

https://nepra.org.pk/publications/State%20of%20Industry%20Reports/State%20of%20Industry%20Report%202022.pdf

Govt should charge IPP to maintain transmission lines and electricity theft. Billions of rupees govt wires stolen every year.

 

[ziaulislam]

dont care what Punjab thinks or doesnt think. only pointing out what should be apparent. if the province has developed those resources using its own budget, then by all means do with it as you please. if someone else has purchased the land, the rights, and invested own money to develop said resource, then they get the right to do as they please.


like i said, revenue should only be shared if the province had any part to play in developing said resource. if it sold it to the federal govt or a private party or whoever, then they should have no claim.

i sell my car to a guy who uses it for rental purposes, should i know demand a share in his earnings? should the OEM (toyota, honda etc.)?

That's not what everyone agreed in 1973
Also not how any federation anywhere in the world works

Because of these thoughts Fatima jinnah was called a traitor her thoughts on federism.

Because of these thoughts mujeeb was called a traitor

Noone wants to learn from the past. I will say
"Lagay Rahoo'"

Any project is developed usually by laons given on grantee of federation based upon its people

So it's kinda stupid to say what you are saying



How can any provincial govt develop something if it can even get loan or approve any project independently

 

[ziaulislam]

Canada
USA
Britain
France

Does any country in the world runs on a model where provinces don't get their resources?? Pakistan is the most central govt even after the 18th amendment in the World

The argument is being made by people who ignored the plight of Bengalis, balochistan and pushtoons in hard times

Leading to mujeeb 6 points

Fantasy tale is central govt is everyones..bro ..just win central punjab and don't get a single vote elsewhere where and u form a govt

What's next presidential system which unless modified like in every and any other federation would mean the winner will always be from central punjab

 

[muhammadhafeezmalik]

Solution is in 1973 consitution that was agreed upon all.

It's gives some rights on revenues from natural resources to provinces while keeping it cheaper for everyone

People of elite punjab thinks that minorities provinces and regions (like south PUNAJB) will die of hunger without them

Reality is they will do much better by simply selling those natural resources

Yet they are balmed for everything

Surely KP 30% of power is stolen but how much power they consume and how much they produce and how much money is pending by federal govt in revenue sharing

These simple numbers will tell the story

One thing is weird is why desco shy away from sharing technical losses of industrial regions where there shouldn't be any losses to begin with


Provinces should only take descos if they are given revenuea they owe

KP shouybe given descos but also the revenue it owes to federal govt


Yes he is saying federation largest consumer thinks it's their right to steal power and not pay 200b rupees in pending to KPK in 8000 mw it's producing at minimum rates..by not paying it's simple devaluing the amount

Now who cares about 200b in today valuation lol

The 200 billion claim by KP is disputed amount, it is no excuse to steal electricity.

 

[ziaulislam]

The 200 billion claim by KP is disputed amount, it is no excuse to steal electricity.

It's not disputed..it's unpaid

Disputed amount is beyond this this agrees reduced amount by federal govt in time of dictatorship without province agreement

Most of the electricity is stolen in punjab
That's fact ..even if u don't count the technical losses in a absolute amount most electricity is stolen in punjab followed by SINDH

Hand over all projects to provinces
Hand over all distribution centers to provinces

Just like it is in any federation

 

[313ghazi]

He has a very good point. KPK produces all this electricity. Same problem we have in AJK. We can be sat at the side of Mangla dam and not get electricity - meanwhile prices are through the roof.

 

[ziaulislam]

Weird thing is that the only argument for not giving provincial rights are we are getting cheap wheat

Which is wrong first we aren't getting it altogether and second the prices are way higher then Punjab
(I grow my own wheat I am talking about other areas of KP and balochistan)

He has a very good point. KPK produces all this electricity. Same problem we have in AJK. We can be sat at the side of Mangla dam and not get electricity - meanwhile prices are through the roof.

 

[maithil]

He has a very good point. KPK produces all this electricity. Same problem we have in AJK. We can be sat at the side of Mangla dam and not get electricity - meanwhile prices are through the roof.

Here is a way.
Handover these dams to provinces and let them sell electricity for 5 Rs per unit to their consumers and excess electricity should be sold to Center at market price of 30 Rupees. From this amount, let those provinces pay back construction cost to center over 10 years. Let them also use this money to import wheat directly from international market. Punjab will not have to worry about its wheat being smuggled.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

It's not disputed..it's unpaid

Disputed amount is beyond this this agrees reduced amount by federal govt in time of dictatorship without province agreement

Most of the electricity is stolen in punjab
That's fact ..even if u don't count the technical losses in a absolute amount most electricity is stolen in punjab followed by SINDH

Hand over all projects to provinces
Hand over all distribution centers to provinces

Just like it is in any federation

Stop with racist pashtunist BS.

rs90 billion losses in Punjab/ISB vs rs390 billion loss in rest of Pakistan. Punjab/ISB uses 80 billion units vs 30 billion for rest of Pakistan. Now calculate per unit loss unless you have pea sized brain.

Tarbela is in Hazara which is technically extension of punjab and not pathan area. Hazara now have its own DISCO and recovery there is similar to Punjab. Again shows culture of theft goes beyond provincial borders. Why people in Hazara pay their bills despite having biggest dam in country?

And BTW these dams only produce enough electricity for 3 months, and thats when demand is also highest. Pakistan need other power plants including KP.

 

[ziaulislam]

Stop with racist pashtunist BS.

rs90 billion losses in Punjab/ISB vs rs390 billion loss in rest of Pakistan. Punjab/ISB uses 80 billion units vs 30 billion for rest of Pakistan. Now calculate per unit loss unless you have pea sized brain.

Tarbela is in Hazara which is technically extension of punjab and not pathan area. Hazara now have its own DISCO and recovery there is similar to Punjab. Again shows culture of theft goes beyond provincial borders. Why people in Hazara pay their bills despite having biggest dam in country?

And BTW these dams only produce enough electricity for 3 months, and thats when demand is also highest. Pakistan need other power plants including KP.

It's not racists
Facts are facts
More electricity is stolen per capital in KP and more in total in punjab

KP produces 5x it's use for cheap hydro while almost nothing is produced by punjab

All hydro resources are controlled by center against the wishes of federation

I live in hazarat division and giving control to PESHAWAR will probably not change anything for us but I am talking about principles here

If u want a functional country you need a federation..if you want a federation you need to hand over the resources to each ptovince

That's how it is in any other country in the world

If you don't.. expect tensions like it is in any other country

When it comes to money people all of suddenly remember race..they don't remember race when punjab based govt in 2013-2018 allowed drones
They don't remember race when wheat transport was blocked

They don't remember race when refuges movement was stopped

They only remember racism when it comes to reaources

Mujeeb ur rehman and Fatima Jinnah were called traitors and racists for same reason

Fatima jinnah was blamed for pushtoonistan movement when she supported federation and was called mujeeb ur rehman lackey

Great to know that you are from hazarat and were effected by tarbela I have greta sympathies with you because I am effected too and weren't paid by federal govt when they procured our lands

We can sit together in ghazi and have a cup of tea when are you coming back to your home town??

Why tribals don't pay bills?
Well they never had because they were previously given free power from local hydro projects (warsak dam)