Amir_Pharaoh
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EAF MIG-29M2 Advanced, armed with R-77 + R-73
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One of these Mig-35s replaces 3 Mig-21..and this is a very conservative estimate due to the new tech, engine power, weapons load, reach..etc.. So 50 Mig-35 are replacing 150 Mig-21s.. and with much up-to-date tech..
This is another dimension to take into account..
Which is something I always have an issue with. In my opinion the future of aircraft is just as important as what it provides now.
At least three of those hit a dead end in terms of development as early as 1990 yet they remained in service in some capacity or another till now and gave us this replacement headache.
Which is a result of flawed strategic planning. The EAF continued its investment well into the 21st century when it was apparent that restrictions weren't going to be lifted - unless there were drastic changes in policy - in the 1990s and early 2000s.
They knew that the Israelis would always object but did sod all to help themselves either.
Not signing memorandums to help with interoperability, racking up 3rd party violations, and not deploying on UN sanctioned missions with conflicted air spaces. Egypt has not given the United States a reason to release the AMRAAM, if anything it has put up more hurdles.
From those with actual inside connects (@MICA) it seems the EAF is more than confident in the Rafales missile package, perhaps more than the Russian one.
I also think that the French being confident enough in fielding the MICA alone with the prospect of going up against the Russians is important.
Also have to remember the MICA NG - which promises better range, detection and acquisition - is right around the corner (2023-2025) and the Meteor may be a possibility.
Obviously we don't have the numbers but I suspect operating three different types is a damn sight more expensive. Especially when it has already been proven we can absorb the Rafale quickly without changing much and even use weapon systems already in service on it.
As for operating costs, buy more and fly more, economies of scale. The F-35 is the most expensive thing out there but the order numbers it has will make it incredible value for money.
I think Russian frame and engine life is being overlooked here. They need overhaul and replacement far more often than their western counterparts.
Plus unless the MiG - 35 becomes an export success we may have to front the development cost - like we did for this bird already - alone at some point if the Russian replacement materializes as they'll obviously priorities that.
We may pay less cash upfront but the lifetime cost may just be higher than that of introducing the Rafale alone.
The Russians are already using the return of flights to Sharm as leverage when the entirety of their security demands were met several years ago.
I think people are also forgetting the Russians like to keep nations dependent on their depots and factories for overhaul, engine replacement, and repair. Without the Ukraine and several other former Soviet states many of the MiGs and Su that are still flying around today wouldn't have been.
They have also been the most difficult to deal with in regards to funding. Unwilling to offer soft loans or long term contracts. The prospect of offsets also doesn't exist.
They will eventually want to undermine our attempts to export energy to Europe and continue to find things to leverage until they get what they want; the naval base they wanted since the fifties.
I think distaste for the US is somewhat unfounded. The support infrastructure the EAF has for the -16 is pretty good, I don't think the Russians would agree to anything similar.
France has a long history of arming morally questionable regimes and are also open to transfer of tech/support infrastructure given the cash is right.
@Gomig-21 The R-77 is a good missile and all but it's not as fancy as they advertise it , the French Mica is way ahead of the R-77 but at the end i am a bit happy we got other bvr missile in large numbers other than the Aim-7p
@Gomig-21 I was away because this thread became boring and somewhat ruined ...
The R-73 aka archer is the best Russian A2A missile has been made till this day and has confirmed kills that's something we have to finally brag about after being held off getting the Aim-9x with it's helmet.
In a brief, the R-77 has a very bad history of malfunctions (seeker problems , failed launching , poor target tracking) the fact that it's range , speed, maneuverability gets affected once it reached half of it's advertised range puts every other missile on market ahead of it , that's why India still in the market for a replacement for it since the problem it faced with it since 2004 if i remember correctly
The best Mig-35 picture ever.. I've never seen any Mig-29s that look like this..
As you also eluded to, with India heavily involved with the MiG-29K/KUB, there's also the potential that any future upgrades to that platform will suit the EAF's MiG-35s as well, being they're almost identical aircraft.
it might not be as burdensome as we think?
but what would have been the alternative or other option? Try to remedy all that to get a lift on all those restriction and wait another decade while still unsure of what the Israelis will do when they jump up and down and scream in protest? Or seek other alternatives which is what they did? Honestly, I would chose the latter while working on the former. Maybe they did the right thing?
I think they can and could've done it but why didn't they?
Just FYI, I don't view things from a "distasteful point of view to the west," but from a pragmatic point of view.
MAYBE what they did with these MiGs will prompt the US and at the same time open the door to the East and the potential it offers.
A simple answer is because of the size of Egypt and also because potential adversaries of Egypt have much more that that, qualitatively as well as quantitatively..
Israel to conduct joint air force drills with Greece, Cyprus, Egypt
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-to-conduct-joint-air-force-drills-with-greece-cyprus-egypt/
Time to get out the Mig-21s.. nothing to sniff for those guys.. you know whom I am talking about..The Greeks are the ones trying to make this happen and IF it does, it would be the Greeks "conducting" the exercise not as that title suggests. Either way, when I first read this a few days ago, I thought strange things have happened before but this would be pretty strange. How times have changed.
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