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Hahahaha good one, I wouldn't mind that Job if offered As a matter of fact I would be proud of it.
How ever if you look through chronology the past few posts were direct replies to my posts which thus were directed to me, had to answer them for that matter.
Beside i want some one else to take my and taimis Job in this thread, we already have been paid enough
Adios
Chinese still depend (albeit lesser than before) on Russian and Israeli technology and the proof lies in the fact that even PAF wants to have the second batch with Western avionics. So this much China is in the drivers seat
I gave the example of R-77 because R-77 is considered better than
the AMRAAM and SD-10.
Chinese pride, J-11 is equipped with R-77 for a reason. Some time back, there were even some speculation of J-11 for PAF, but nothing happened, why? There is ample information online.
Neither the Mi-17 nor the T-84UD represents cutting edge Russian technology so this example does not substantiate anything.
Lastly, wishes and hopes aside, only time will tell how certain things get materialized. One thing I would like to add though, as a career Scientist, I have found that a cautious and well-calculated approach is always preferable over optimistic one.
I said what I had to say; a reply to your rebuttal or whatever will add nothing more to what I have already said. Chinese still depend (albeit lesser than before) on Russian and Israeli technology and the proof lies in the fact that even PAF wants to have the second batch with Western avionics. So this much China is in the drivers seat
I gave the example of R-77 because R-77 is considered better than the AMRAAM and SD-10. Chinese pride, J-11 is equipped with R-77 for a reason. Some time back, there were even some speculation of J-11 for PAF, but nothing happened, why? There is ample information online. Neither the Mi-17 nor the T-84UD represents cutting edge Russian technology so this example does not substantiate anything.
Now, JF-17 will wipe out Su-30 from the third world market is kind of very interesting a prophecy. My intellectual limitations do not qualify me even to disagree on this let alone put down a rebuttal.
Lastly, wishes and hopes aside, only time will tell how certain things get materialized. One thing I would like to add though, as a career Scientist, I have found that a cautious and well-calculated approach is always preferable over optimistic one.
My Dear Taimi, I am the one who has always argued that if Chinese can depend on their own technology to defend their homeland, why cant we depend on their technology to defend our country. I have always been a critic of Pakistani’s obsession towards Western technology and argued that Chinese are catching up fast. Now, I never said that Chinese are ‘dependent’ on Russian or Israeli technology. I have said that they need their input, and the Chinese have not yet reached to a level where they can turn down an opportunity of getting their hands on Russian/Israeli hi-tech avionics and armament. Chinese technology is literally developing in leaps and bounds and that day is not far way when Chinese will start developing their very own technology, BUT there is still some time to reach to that level.Your arguments are valid, but just to say, we should not be downgrading the Chinese so much. And Sir to say, they are still dependent on Russia and Israel would be a little unjustified, as it was the case previously. China has gotten enough of the tech from them to have started making their own improved versions as China knows itself they can't rely on others, so they have increased their infrastructure to have their own research and manufacturing base. The newer versions of J-11B is a perfect example to look into it, do read about the reported changes done into it. Their naval platforms, aviation platforms and land based platforms been shown in the last decade are testament that they have now a very good and large research and manufacturing base and have become independent from the Russian & Israeli influence.
Sir, just to add, fully Chinese built J-11B is fully compatible with Chinese weapon systems and they do carry Chinese weapon systems. What you are talking about is the J-11As, the ones built with Russian supplied kits and some parts made in China. But J-11B is fully without engines made in China. Rather to the astonishment of Russians, they have made it much better compared to the Su-27s/J-11As gotten earlier.
With WS-10 variant engine:
Your arguments are valid, but just to say, we should not be downgrading the Chinese so much. And Sir to say, they are still dependent on Russia and Israel would be a little unjustified, as it was the case previously. China has gotten enough of the tech from them to have started making their own improved versions as China knows itself they can't rely on others, so they have increased their infrastructure to have their own research and manufacturing base. The newer versions of J-11B is a perfect example to look into it, do read about the reported changes done into it. Their naval platforms, aviation platforms and land based platforms been shown in the last decade are testament that they have now a very good and large research and manufacturing base and have become independent from the Russian & Israeli influence.
in the third pic, is j-11 carrying sd-10..??
Lots of pictures of recent J-11Bs are being seen carrying SD-10s/PL-12s.
It has become operational with PLAAF.
Yes, of those parts of JF 17 Pakistan owns and my question was which parts that would be?If Pakistan is 50% owner of the JF-17, then it will get 50% of the profit (= price - cost), not revenue. Also, I expect PAF will charge a fee/commission for integration of Western avionics into JF-17.
In any case, this is all speculation. The profit-sharing details will probably remain secret between Pak-China.
Yes, of those parts of JF 17 Pakistan owns and my question was which parts that would be?
I agree, that the clear ammount of profit/revenue won't be made public, but it seems that China will make the most profit out of this deal.
Imo, they will get 50% of selling the airframe, gear, cockpit...parts, which was co-developed with Pakistan. But 100% of weapons, most parts of the avionics and if JF will get a Chinese engine later, also from this part. Which actually shows again how clever they are, because all former customers of cheap Russian fighters, has now the option of low cost JF 17, or even the more capable but still low cost J10 and no matter whichever will win, China benefits the most!
Yes, of those parts of JF 17 Pakistan owns and my question was which parts that would be?
I agree, that the clear ammount of profit/revenue won't be made public, but it seems that China will make the most profit out of this deal.
Imo, they will get 50% of selling the airframe, gear, cockpit...parts, which was co-developed with Pakistan. But 100% of weapons, most parts of the avionics and if JF will get a Chinese engine later, also from this part. Which actually shows again how clever they are, because all former customers of cheap Russian fighters, has now the option of low cost JF 17, or even the more capable but still low cost J10 and no matter whichever will win, China benefits the most!
Now lets suppose the total cost is about 15 million dollars to make a piece.
So
Profit > Revenue - Cost
profit : 20 - 15
Profit : 5 million dollars
This 5 million will be divided between the both countries equally. i.e Pakistan will get 2.5 million per peace in this case.
That is what I am curious about, because the $20 million are the price of the total JF with Chinese techs and weapons, but these wasn't funded, or co-developed by Pakistan, so why should they provide 50% profit of the sale of these to Pakistan too?
That's why I said, isn't it more realistic that Pakistan gets only profit of those parts that it co-funded/co-developed?
Btw, I quoted revenue only from a post of another member, it's not about exact numbers for me, I'm just interested in how that deal would really go through, with who will provide what parts for exports and which of them will really produced in Pakistan.