Egypt Golden Parade: Lessons for Pakistan

[Iltutmish]

Level of radicalization is you cant name which religion is oldest other thn Islam in a family gathering because "Adam A.S" was Muslim . And you are suggesting to celebrate Ashoka, it will be a political suicide in this country of low IQ religious zombies.

Are you even Muslim? Why should Pakistan celebrate a random pagan? Do Spaniards or Greeks celebrate their Muslim heritage? Stop the self-hate FKK-Boy.

 

[Iltutmish]

The only thing holding Pakistan together is Islam and fear of Indian or should I say Hindu subjugation. You remove both of them and see how these very same Pakistanis will fight each other and blow up the country..

People even have problems with a Kashmiri boy marrying a Pathan girl. What will happen when our common bond - the one true religion - is substituted by secular nihilism? We can split up the country according to ethnic lines and be done with it. The whole reason for Pakistans existence is Islam. It’s the only Country in the world founded in the name of Islam. Take pride in it, no need to go pagan!

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Ever heard of the concept of „Jahaliyyah“ or „Jailiyyat“ in Urdu? Does it have a positive connotation?

Learning history is one thing, celebrating Mushriks or people who claimed to be god-like the other.

I am also interested in history and in preserving history, but I have no love for Ranjit Singh or any other pagan ruler of the past. We have our own heroes!

Tell me one former Muslim country celebrating its Muslim past. Just one! The Greeks? The Indians? Spain? But self-hating P@kis celebrate everything and everybody and criticize people for having Muslim heroes only. Welcome to the new world!

Bhai, thanks for the fun fact but for the love of god how does this affect the reality of Pakistanis today? What do we get from that?

Let me explain the anomaly with Hindus.

Monotheistic cultures routinely ERADICATED polytheistic predecessors around the world, either through mass conversion or by going full "Cortez" on them as happened with the Aztecs.

The clowns representing Hindustan on this very thread are well aware that their faith exists by virtue of the mercy of monotheistic faiths, quite the anomaly in the subcontinent. One may even argue, had Cortez reached this godforsaken land before bin Qasim, there may not be any Hindus alive now to tell the tale.

Think about it: Egyptians, Greeks/Romans, Norse religions, Druidism in Britain, Babylonians, Assyrians, Aztecs...all gone, completely.

Their faith is literally alive in museums only.

Now you and I both know the elephant herders of the Ganges dodged this particular bullet. Why now should they somehow ride around as the sole outliers in the entire course of civilisational history, pushing their nonsensical agendas on the rest of us, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Indian muslims alike?

The whole point of Jinnah's philosophy was to insulate us from their idiotic schemes the moment they seized some semblance of power. Pakistan owns their origin story, their ground zero. This irks them, hence they keep replying to me and others whenever the subject is discussed among Pakistanis. That you are unable to see the practical advantage of this situation is surprisingly short sighted.

Notwithstanding the above narrational, practical, tourism related and financial implications, that Pakistanis chose to evolve down the path of Islam while these people opted for brahminist enslavement should speak volumes in itself. We made better decisions than our eastern neighbours, and the value of that when dealing with these people in all forms of engagement should not be lost on you.

 

[pakpride00090]

People even have problems with a Kashmiri boy marrying a Pathan girl. What will happen when our common bond - the one true religion - is substituted by secular nihilism? We can split up the country according to ethnic lines and be done with it. The whole reason for Pakistans existence is Islam. It’s the only Country in the world founded in the name of Islam. Take pride in it, no need to go pagan!

You have just touched the tip of iceberg..

The differences amongst us are so huge that it is inconceivable how Pakistan is still in its current shape(well at least the west one)

Only two factors make us tolerate each other.. Key word " tolerate" , not love , like or unity...Tolerate !

Islam and fear of Hindu Subjugation.. Thats pretty much it. The moment this country goes secular or these two factors are gone/removed, say bye bye to Pakistan.

Pak army knows this hence it doubles down on Islamic identity.

 

[MM_Haider]

Pakistan can only replicate this by parading Mohenjodaro and Harrapa floats in the streets of Islamabad, Quetta, Karachi, Pehsawar and Lahore...

nothing more nothing less!!

 

[masterchief_mirza]

You have just touched the tip of iceberg..

The differences amongst us are so huge that it is inconceivable how Pakistan is still in its current shape(well at least the west one)

Only two factors make us tolerate each other.. Key word " tolerate" , not love , like or unity...Tolerate !

Islam and fear of Hindu Subjugation.. Thats pretty much it. The moment this country goes secular or these two factors are gone/removed, say bye bye to Pakistan.

Pak army knows this hence it doubles down on Islamic identity.

We're not in the slightest bit afraid of Hindu subjugation in Pakistan. If you're afraid of this fantasy, you need to sit down and breathe slowly.

I'll go further - if India suddenly dissolved, Pakistan would categorically persist, finally rid of the plague to its east and able to flourish economically without any drain on resources by perpetual cold war.

I disagree that India's existence is somehow needed for Pakistan's. We're not some flimsy Afghanistan that might collapse at a moment's notice.

As for Islam "holding Pakistan together", I agree to an extent. Pakistan was created as a safe haven for Muslims of the subcontinent. It's actually the values imbibed in the population by and the practicalities of shared islamic tradition that unites us. Anyone living with other Muslims in foreign countries understands this.

You couldn't replace Islam with Hinduism and expect a similar result in this particular case. So I get what you're saying, but you need to qualify what you mean here. European nations are united by judeo-Christian identity and - arguably - skin colour. I think most nations are the same. The societal values are shared and this preserves unity in the majority of monotheistic populations.

 

[Windjammer]

Looking back some years, one of the Pakistan Day Parades during the period when General Parvez Musharaf was in office, they had an historical theme to it with participants dressed as past Muslim warriors dressed in periodic armour and armed with swords and other ancient weapons also included replicas of bygone era cannons and related materials.

 

[mudas777]

Thought we celebrate women's day once a year now you wants us to watch another spectacle of mera jissam meri merzi again. Pakistan can ill afford these dramas and if we can parade Nawaz and Isaq dar then am all for it.

 

[pakpride00090]

We're not in the slightest bit afraid of Hindu subjugation in Pakistan. If you're afraid of this fantasy, you need to sit down and breathe slowly.

I'll go further - if India suddenly dissolved, Pakistan would categorically persist, finally rid of the plague to its east and able to flourish economically without any drain on resources by perpetual cold war.

I disagree that India's existence is somehow needed for Pakistan's. We're not some flimsy Afghanistan that might collapse at a moment's notice.

As for Islam "holding Pakistan together", I agree to an extent. Pakistan was created as a safe haven for Muslims of the subcontinent. It's actually the values imbibed in the population by and the practicalities of shared islamic tradition that unites us. Anyone living with other Muslims in foreign countries understands this.

You couldn't replace Islam with Hinduism and expect a similar result in this particular case. So I get what you're saying, but you need to qualify what you mean here. European nations are united by judeo-Christian identity and - arguably - skin colour. I think most nations are the same. The societal values are shared and this preserves unity in the majority of monotheistic populations.

You should ask Indian muslims about Hindu Subjugation.. It is very easy to say these things when one is safe knowing the fact that it is Indian muslims who pay the cost everyday for the safety of Pakistani muslims.

Europeans are all white , (hence a homogenous race) and have gone through wars that we haven't really experienced. The continued wars that they fought amongst one another pales to what we have endured and seen in this part of the world.

Only Punjabis and Muhajirs suffered the most when it came to creation of Pakistan. Gilgitis and Baltistanis are second because they won their freedom by rebelling and fighting.


Same can't be said about Sindhis , Baloch and Pushtuns...Neither of these communities fought or suffered genocide and rapes on mass scales. They woke up one more morning and found themselves free hence their pro-pakistan sentiment is definitely not at the same level or league compared to Punjabis , muhajirs and northerners. This brings me to second point ..

Since genocide and mass rapes have not being suffered by every single ethnic group in Pakistan , they don't share the same blood and sacrifice and bond that build's up when one goes through such hardships ... People learn to live together and accept each other rather than tolerating each others existence.


Pakistan , unlike Europe doesn't have single homogenous factor. Not a single race/ethnicity , not a single culture , not even a single language and most importantly , no clear cut majority of a single ethnic group.

Even Islam is now modified and people have created divisions into it so much so that people don't even pray in each others mosque. But despite this , Islam remains the dominant tolerating force.

For Pakistan to become a truly united country , they have to shed their ethno chauvinism and sectarinism which I don't see happening.

 

[Menace2Society]

People even have problems with a Kashmiri boy marrying a Pathan girl. What will happen when our common bond - the one true religion - is substituted by secular nihilism? We can split up the country according to ethnic lines and be done with it. The whole reason for Pakistans existence is Islam. It’s the only Country in the world founded in the name of Islam. Take pride in it, no need to go pagan!

Pakistan is a land grab and with all the arms parked on it, its not going anywhere whatever happens so don't worry. At our core we do not like to be ruled so we carved out our own space in the world. If we weren't that way inclined then we would have been absorbed by Afghanistan and India or Alexander would have won or the Mughals would not have "pakistanized".

The oxymoron is everyone knows this so they conquered our minds instead. Thats why you have TTP fighters given protection by Pakistanis, shias running off to Syria to fight Irans battles, people handing over their life savings to Saudis. Sunnis killing shias etc etc. The afghan terrorist economy in miranshah was sustained and supported how? A pathetic country like Afghanistan can have a stronger national narrative than you and then you are compromised.Same goes for Iran they can f**k you over whenever they want by invoking a cassus belli then you will see all your shias running off to fight someone elses battles.Perhaps we need a stronger glue.

 

[Maira La]

Islam and fear of Hindu Subjugation.. Thats pretty much it. The moment this country goes secular or these two factors are gone/removed, say bye bye to Pakistan.

I'm going to get flak for saying this, but bye bye to Pakistan wouldn't be a bad thing if India went extinct, in other words under "normal" circumstances. Normal for Indian continent means British colonial relic completely undone. In this case I can see Pakistan easily breaking up into ethnic countries. Ethnic countries isn't a bad thing because that is the best way to preserve culture, language and race.

I understand that's not possible in present situation with the colonial relic posing an existential threat to all people of your region.

 

[Iltutmish]

For Pakistan to become a truly united country , they have to shed their ethno chauvinism and sectarinism which I don't see happening.

One Deen, one nation. Pray together, stay together! The day is near inshallah!

 

[pakpride00090]

I'm going to get flak for saying this, but bye bye to Pakistan wouldn't be a bad thing if India went extinct, in other words under "normal" circumstances. Normal for Indian continent means British colonial relic completely undone. In this case I can see Pakistan easily breaking up into ethnic countries. Ethnic countries isn't a bad thing because that is the best way to preserve culture, language and race.

I understand that's not possible in present situation with the colonial relic posing an existential threat to all people of your region.

Your point just reinforces and said the same thing I said above.

You just removed the India factor hence fear of Hindu subjugation is gone. That is one of two most important things holding Pakistan together.

 

[313ghazi]

It's a great event. National Museum of Egyptian Civilization and its related work are admirable policies. I want to visit this place at the first opportunity.

Off-topic but I would also like to add a little anecdote, as I have seen there is too many references to Turks in some members' related discussions.

Turks were always a Monotheist people "in general". Pre-Islamic Turks believed that there is one God, and a supreme creator. Therefore, their transition to Judaism, Christianity and Islam was easy. Today, more than 80% of the people in the world, who have not lost their Turkish identity, are Muslim. Thanks to the Karluks, the Turks started to adopt Islam in large communities around 8th century. Turkish tribes were connected to each other by TOYs's(keneş) because of their ancient traditions. In other words, even though their existence in the asian steppes and Caspian/Caucassus spread over a wide geography, there was a union among them in legislative and judicial matters. Turks have the ability to easily integrate with the local people in every region they live due to their traditions and moral rules. Regarding this, the cultural structure was preserved to a great extent and Islam was adopted with this. For us, our pre-Islamic traces are the set of moral rules and living traditions that made us close to adopting Islam.

I have a question. I watch some historical Turkish TV dramas and they often make a reference to Turkic traditions too. It would seem to me that knowledge of these traditions is still around today. Is that correct?

In Pakistan we know of the Indus Valley civilisation and the Buddhist kingdoms etc only through textbooks. No ancient pre Islamic traditions have been adapted and carried on. Maybe Basant and Nowruz are some fringe examples. This is why I think it's ridiculous to form a national identity around something we lost touch with centuries ago. It's completely culturally irrelevant today.

@Indus Pakistan @masterchief_mirza you guys seem well informed about our ancient culture and history. Is there parts of it which still exist in our society today?

 

[Mrc]

Egyptians have been witnessing a historic procession of their country's ancient rulers through the capital, Cairo.
The lavish, multimillion-dollar spectacle saw 22 mummies - 18 kings and four queens - transported from the peach-coloured, neo-classical Egyptian Museum to their new resting place 5km (three miles) away.
With tight security arrangements befitting their royal blood and status as national treasures, the mummies were relocated to the new National Museum of Egyptian Civilisation in what is called The Pharaohs' Golden Parade.
They were transported with great fanfare in chronological order of their reigns - from the 17th Dynasty ruler, Seqenenre Taa II, to Ramses IX, who reigned in the 12th Century BC.
Egypt experienced a sharp rise in Covid-19 infections a year ago, but following a decline in the number of cases and deaths, restrictions on open-air gatherings were later lifted.

Now coming to Pakistan. Why dont we own people who were true heroes of Land???? We discard them because they had different religion??? Because they were Hindus or Budhists ?

On one hand Pakistan claims to be remains of great Indus Valley civilisation. on the other hand disown people who were part of that civilisation.


Like Ashoka or Chanakya ?? Why dont we celebrate Mir Chakar? Why are our heroes Ahmad Shah Abdali ( Afghan) or Mehmood Ghaznwai ( Persian) ?

So do you think honoring the pharaohs who were cursed by Allah and mentioned in quran like that was a good thing??

I m sure ramses would have been amused to see salute of a Muslim army.... Not in 5000 years he would have thought..