Egypt Buys Rafale and FREMM

[Amir_Pharaoh]

Whoever talks about the incapability of Egypt to finance such deal , apparently knows nothing about our economy !!
All these numbers concerning the military budget are just speculations since it's been never officially published .
Egypt as mentioned before will fund its own deals some cash , the rest will be borrowed from some French banks .

And the Egyptian interest of Rafael isn't recent .
The plane was promoted to Egypt many years ago , and there're some famous pictures flying over Giza Pyramids .
News came up again in 2011 right after the uprising and even with economic deterioration but was set off due to political concerns with the SCAF .

El-Sisi wants to show the world that he is the strong man who is going to restore the stability and order to this flaming region. thus many Arms deals unlike the habit have been shown in the media .
And currently there are two major deals with Russia and France .

Last year Tor m2 + Buk-m2 + s-300 + Mig-29 m2 + DCNS Gowind
This year FREMM + Rafale
And we're still waiting for Kilo-636 + type 209 subs + Su-35

Many observers with all these deals , expect that Egypt is going to war ! especially with Egyptian administration in such hurry to obtain all these equipments in this short time !

KSA , UAE and Kuwait are the biggest supporters and most trusted allies to Egypt .
And no one can deny how much they helped us diplomatically and economically .. particularly after the MB's ousted .

They all watched what's been going on in Iraq since what so called "Operation Enduring Freedom" (OEF) !! and how it led to dismantle Iraqi army , flaming the sectarian conflicts and cracking the Sunni down .. many factors which eventually led to the rising of ISIL !! (And that's how Iraq the eastern gate of the Arab world was demolished !!)

They're all still watching what's been going in Syria , and how arming the opposition led to ongoing civil war .. and almost half of Syria is controlled by militias and terrorist groups (And that's how Syria the northern gate of the Arab world was demolished as well !!) .. two big and strong armies were lost ! not mentioning civil wars in Libya , Yemen ... etc !!

The conspiracy of "The Greater Middle East" / "The New Middle East" is undoubtful fact
And without talking much about that matter , cos I don't want to go off topic any longer .

All I want to say that a great powerful Egypt is highly considered and respected by many Gulf countries .
As Egypt has so many responsibilities in this critical time .. and lots of powers out there want another Libyan / Syrian / Iraqi / Yemeni scenario in Egypt to make the region fall in ruin !

 

[Falcon29]

@Amir_Pharaoh

I haven't seen any observer suspect Egypt is preparing for war(or with whom for that matter). I realize there are problems in the neighborhood. But you need to give me proper explanation as to why they would want middle east in ruins run by militias. Even if they wanted to split up states, over time and not far off militias will triumph since they have ideology that churns up more and more recruits.

I have read that this could be related to ethopian dam issue.

 

[Malik Alashter]

Whoever talks about the incapability of Egypt to finance such deal , apparently knows nothing about our economy !!
All these numbers concerning the military budget are just speculations since it's been never officially published .
Egypt as mentioned before will fund its own deals some cash , the rest will be borrowed from some French banks .

And the Egyptian interest of Rafael isn't recent .
The plane was promoted to Egypt many years ago , and there're some famous pictures flying over Giza Pyramids .
News came up again in 2011 right after the uprising and even with economic deterioration but was set off due to political concerns with the SCAF .

El-Sisi wants to show the world that he is the strong man who is going to restore the stability and order to this flaming region. thus many Arms deals unlike the habit have been shown in the media .
And currently there are two major deals with Russia and France .

Last year Tor m2 + Buk-m2 + s-300 + Mig-29 m2 + DCNS Gowind
This year FREMM + Rafale
And we're still waiting for Kilo-636 + type 209 subs + Su-35

Many observers with all these deals , expect that Egypt is going to war ! especially with Egyptian administration in such hurry to obtain all these equipments in this short time !

KSA , UAE and Kuwait are the biggest supporters and most trusted allies to Egypt .
And no one can deny how much the helped us diplomatically and economically .. particularly after the MB's ousted .

They all watched what's been going on in Iraq since what so called "Operation Enduring Freedom" (OEF) !! and how it led to dismantle Iraqi army , flaming the sectarian conflicts and cracking the Sunni down .. many factors which eventually led to the rising of ISIL !! (And that's how Iraq the eastern gate of the Arab world was demolished !!)

They're all still watching what's been going in Syria , and how arming the opposition led to ongoing civil war .. and almost half of Syria is controlled by militias and terrorist groups (And that's how Syria the northern gate of the Arab world was demolished as well !!) .. two big and strong armies were lost ! not mentioning civil wars in Libya , Yemen ... etc !!

The conspiracy of "The Greater Middle East" / "The New Middle East" is undoubtful fact
And without talking much about that matter , cos I don't want to go off topic any longer .

All I want to say that a great powerful Egypt is highly considered and respected by many Gulf countries .
As Egypt has so many responsibilities in this critical time .. and lots of powers out there want another Libyan / Syrian / Iraqi / Yemeni scenario in Egypt to make the region fall in ruin !

All these deals payed by GCC period forget abut your economy abilty we all know well at least mny of us that the GCC put in Egyptian Central Bank many billions.Not because they love it no because the sis made them sleep at night without thnking of Ikhwan shaking their thrones emember that mursi visited Ryadh, but he never were welcomed and remember how UAE was so upset of the Ikhwan. It's all about interests.

 

[Amir_Pharaoh]

@Falcon29 Just yesterday many reports talked about Egyptian-Saudi joint-operation and preparation to interfere if things went out of control in Yemen and to make sure non-closure of strait of Bab el Mandeb .
Many reports are exaggerating of course , especially with the strait of Bab el Mandeb , many international interests is to be considered .
And the situation in Libya and its impact on Egypt is another story !

Like I said earlier , I don't want to go off topic any longer ..
There are many threads relating the situations in the region .

 

[al-Hasani]

All these deals payed by GCC period forget abut your economy abilty we all know well at least mny of us that the GCC put in Egyptian Central Bank many billions.Not because they love it no because the sis made them sleep at night without thnking of Ikhwan shaking their thrones emember that mursi visited Ryadh, but he never were welcomed and remember how UAE was so upset of the Ikhwan. It's all about interests.

KSA has donated/loaned about 7-5 billion dollars to Egypt. Donations were also made when Morsi was the president. Those are in a sense also investments.

KSA and Egypt have had warm ties literary always. The only exception being during the time of Nasser due to the infighting between Arab nationalists (mainly socialists and allied with the Soviet Union) and monarchies allied with the West. Even back then a conflict was never realistic.

KSA, especially Hijaz, share a several millennium old bound with nearby Egypt, an ancient Semitic and Arab past, dialect, cuisine etc. Hijaz and Egypt were mostly part of the same Caliphates, empires etc. too during the Islamic period be it Umayyad, Abbasid, Fatimid or Ottoman. Many people in Hijaz are of Egyptian ancestry and vice versa. There are 2 million Egyptians in KSA, mainly in Hijaz, too. Same religion (Islam) and sect (Sunni Islam) too.

Was it a coincidence that Prophet Muhammad (saws) (himself a Hijazi) married a Christian Egyptian lady or had close contacts to Egypt? The answer is no.

A stable Egypt is important for the GCC, especially nearby KSA.

Of course nothing comes for free but you cannot underestimate those ties among the common man and woman or ancient or recent history brother. I like to look at things from more than a political angle. Answers are never easy.

I believe instead of trying to find differences all the time (mostly always focusing on the leaders in the Arab world like they represent the majority or as if there actions were sanctioned by the people) we should try to cooperate instead of trying to find reasons to create animosity when there should not really be such an animosity. At the end of the day we are not enemies nor should we be.

Just earlier today I saw Algerian and Moroccan users that share so much in common trolling each other like they were mortal enemies. It's sad.

Of all Arab people today that have difficult ties the most tragic of them all are the Saudi Arabian and Iraqi ties given how much both countries have in common from ancient times until today. Especially people of Southern Iraq who are practically identical to those in KSA. More than the Sunni Arabs of Iraq.

It's sad what politics can do.

 

[Mosamania]

I don't think Pakistan is as much trusted ally as Egypt because KSA have never helped Pakistan as they have did it with Egypt. Did KSA purchased tanks or jets from Pakistan or they did JV do build advance variants of tanks and jets?? Did they finance any major fighter jet deal for Pakistan, no.

Yes yes and yes.

 

[waz]

Maskharara hhhhhhhhh! Kol el tayreen el hayeshtaghalo 3ala el Rafale 3atla'i halithom zay alakh dah:

Sorry to go off-topic but what is the video about? It looks hilarious.

Yes yes and yes.

And a yes from me. Allah bless the Hijaz.

 

[al-Hasani]

Sorry to go off-topic but what is the video about? It looks hilarious.



And a yes from me. Allah bless the Hijaz.

It's a well-known Egyptian Shaabi singer and actor brother.

Shaabi (Egyptian musical style) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The song is basically a love song. Kind of silly IMO. He is singing about getting married and that he will no longer look for other girls, how he wants to kiss his bride etc.

The video is from a movie btw.

 

[SipahSalar]

So is egypt buying these at a cheaper rate or higher rate than India?

Also thanks for rooh afza.

*Insert of Jaws hitting the floor*

Umm...Egypt is like Israel's second most important ally, right after USA...

 

[Hindustani78]

One has to take account of inflation, the French- Indian deal has been dragging its feet for quite a while now.
The Egyptian deal shows the total price per unit for the rafale, including its weapons, training, spare parts, etc to be around 200 $ million, and not sure if it includes any ToT in it.
Egypt will get another 24 or 26 of these in the near future and many other Arab countries will follow suite, so there might be a total of 150 Rafales if not more for the gulf region alone.
France has nothing to lose now that it has finalized its first Rafale deal in a region where it wanted to sell it most for decades now. So India might still get its Rafales, but on some French terms, otherwise France will not give it much thought, and will concentrate on a bigger market, not only for its jets but the big requirements for modern frigates (at least 25) for the middle east, submarines (around 50), BVR missiles, air defense and much more, that will amount to more than a 100$ billion dollars against which the 12$-20$ billion (including the Scorpene Submarines) Indian deal does not look much.

French - Indian rafale deal is on track and i think its more related to the upgradtion of the Mirage2000. IAF do have 51 Mirage 2000. Here its more about that deal.

Under the contract, initially two aircraft would be sent to France to be checked and upgraded there by Dassault and Thales under Indian supervision. Then, two more aircraft would be similarly upgraded at HAL by French engineers and technicians in India as part of the learning curve for Indian engineers.

After that, the equipment supplied by Thales would be fitted on the aircraft in India at HAL’s factory in Bangalore.

Press release from Dassault

Egypt opts for the Rafale - Dassault Aviation

Dassault Aviation is greatly honored by the Arab Republic of Egypt’s decision to equip its air force with the Rafale. This decision is a continuation of our cooperation that dates back to the 1970s, and has seen the Mirage 5, the Alpha Jet and the Mirage 2000 fly in the colors of Egypt. The Rafale meets the needs of countries that, like Egypt, demand a sovereign air force of the best level.



Have Egyptian Mirage 2000 have been upgraded ?

 

[That Guy]

The French source that I quoted earlier in this thread tell exactly how the deal is going to be financed. No mention of KSA. I have not found anything in the Egyptian or Saudi Arabian media either.

If rumors in some article is enough to define what is reality or what is bluff then almost everything reported should be taken as face value.

Egypt is not a tiny state or a colony of anybody. Your theory about KSA somehow "conquering" Egypt from the wrath of small Qatar is very simplistic. If KSA really played all the cards in Egypt then you would not see Egyptian and Russian relations as seen in recent weeks.

KSA and Qatar do not have hostile ties anymore. Not that they were ever really hostile. Just disagreements.

Until I see solid evidence of KSA financing this deal (in its entirety or partially) there is nothing more to discus for my part with all due respect.

We will have to disagree here.

Whoa whoa whoa, when did I say conquer? It's geopolitics, which means that it is all about expanding influence, every power does this, especially the greats and the globals; There is no conquer here. Why do you think that Egypt arrested the Al-Jazeera staff under what were clearly sham charges? It was to send a signal to Qatar that it would not tolerate Qatar's support of the Muslim Brotherhood, and Morsi.

I would ask you to not put words in my mouth.

I find it suspicious. While 50% will be funded by French banks, the other 50% is what I'm talking about. Egypt doesn't have the money for such a thing, it simply doesn't. Where are they going to get 2.5 billion Euros from? Their treasury is already stretched with the economy, and their economy is still on a slump. Where are these funds coming from? Egypt is struggling to revive it's economy, so I highly doubt that they have the money to buy this themselves. It still doesn't seem possible.

Either Sisi doesn't give a damn about Egypt's economy, or there is something going on. I'm willing to bet that KSA did give a loan to Egypt to fund it's military acquisitions, especially since Washington has been rethinking it's military aid to Egypt. That is why Egypt has been moving towards Russia. Even KSA is moving away from Washington slowly, as they no longer consider the US to be a reliable partner, considering the circumstances in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and to an extent Afghanistan and Pakistan.

A part of what I do is look at things through a deeper lens. I don't take anything at face value, because my analysis would become meaningless, and no different to what you would read in a news paper piece. What I express are opinions, nothing more. I'm a pundit on these forums, not an expert, nor a journalist.

 

[Hindustani78]

So is egypt buying these at a cheaper rate or higher rate than India?

I think here it should be more about the technology transfer. Will all these Rafale fighter planes will be produced in France ?

 

[That Guy]

Whoever talks about the incapability of Egypt to finance such deal , apparently knows nothing about our economy !!
All these numbers concerning the military budget are just speculations since it's been never officially published .
Egypt as mentioned before will fund its own deals some cash , the rest will be borrowed from some French banks .

And the Egyptian interest of Rafael isn't recent .
The plane was promoted to Egypt many years ago , and there're some famous pictures flying over Giza Pyramids .
News came up again in 2011 right after the uprising and even with economic deterioration but was set off due to political concerns with the SCAF .

El-Sisi wants to show the world that he is the strong man who is going to restore the stability and order to this flaming region. thus many Arms deals unlike the habit have been shown in the media .
And currently there are two major deals with Russia and France .

Last year Tor m2 + Buk-m2 + s-300 + Mig-29 m2 + DCNS Gowind
This year FREMM + Rafale
And we're still waiting for Kilo-636 + type 209 subs + Su-35

Many observers with all these deals , expect that Egypt is going to war ! especially with Egyptian administration in such hurry to obtain all these equipments in this short time !

KSA , UAE and Kuwait are the biggest supporters and most trusted allies to Egypt .
And no one can deny how much they helped us diplomatically and economically .. particularly after the MB's ousted .

They all watched what's been going on in Iraq since what so called "Operation Enduring Freedom" (OEF) !! and how it led to dismantle Iraqi army , flaming the sectarian conflicts and cracking the Sunni down .. many factors which eventually led to the rising of ISIL !! (And that's how Iraq the eastern gate of the Arab world was demolished !!)

They're all still watching what's been going in Syria , and how arming the opposition led to ongoing civil war .. and almost half of Syria is controlled by militias and terrorist groups (And that's how Syria the northern gate of the Arab world was demolished as well !!) .. two big and strong armies were lost ! not mentioning civil wars in Libya , Yemen ... etc !!

The conspiracy of "The Greater Middle East" / "The New Middle East" is undoubtful fact
And without talking much about that matter , cos I don't want to go off topic any longer .

All I want to say that a great powerful Egypt is highly considered and respected by many Gulf countries .
As Egypt has so many responsibilities in this critical time .. and lots of powers out there want another Libyan / Syrian / Iraqi / Yemeni scenario in Egypt to make the region fall in ruin !

I'm just going to address the funding part, as the rest of your comment is highly subjective, and I completely disagree with.

Most big ticket items that Egypt buys usually comes from US military aid, in the tone of $1.6 billion dollars annually. Of course there has been an interest in Egypt's air force a new fighter, and it wasn't just the Rafale, they were also interested in the Eurofighter as well. Considering that both jets are rivals, it's not surprising.

Having interest isn't the same thing as being able to afford said items, it's simply illogical to assume such a thing. So far I've been given no numbers on how Egypt would be able to afford such items, considering it's economic situation, which even Egypt's government acknowledged was a problem. 50% funding from french banks, and 50% domestic funding isn't a plan, it's an extremely vague ambition. Nowhere does it say where Egypt will get the 50% "domestic" funds from, and Egypt has kept surprisingly quiet about it.

I think here it should be more about the technology transfer. Will all these Rafale fighter planes will be produced in France ?

For 20 odd planes? No way France is going to give it's knowledge over such a low amount. Egypt would need to buy at least 5 times the amount to even think about requesting Tech transfer.

 

[Hindustani78]

For 20 odd planes? No way France is going to give it's knowledge over such a low amount. Egypt would need to buy at least 5 times the amount to even think about requesting Tech transfer.

Here only there would be pricing difference.

Egypt getting Rafale means getting NATO modern weapons.

 

[Rakan.SA]

@Frogman مبروك يا عم الحج و ما تنساش الحلاوه
2 questions. is the russian jets deal still on ? is saudi involved in financing it ?
cuz im trying to understand and analyze the political reasons behind it.