Egypt Buys Rafale and FREMM

[Malik Alashter]

I don't think Pakistan is as much trusted ally as Egypt because KSA have never helped Pakistan as they have did it with Egypt. Did KSA purchased tanks or jets from Pakistan or they did JV do build advance variants of tanks and jets?? Did they finance any major fighter jet deal for Pakistan, no.

Sorry, but you are so naive.

 

[Basel]

Sorry, but you are so naive.

No, I m not, I just posted what is reality.

 

[al-Hasani]

No, I m not, I just posted what is reality.

Your "reality" is definitely another reality from that of most other people it seems.

KSA has not financed this deal with even 1 Riyal once again.

KSA financed your nuclear program when everybody else (almost) had sanctioned you. As well as your military sector.

KSA has always helped Pakistan whenever you were hit by floods or earthquakes. KSA welcomes around 1 million Pakistanis currently that are sending billions of dollars of remittances back home that whole families, towns and villages depend on.

You are being ungrateful for no reason. KSA is not even a neighbor yet never hesitated to stand by Pakistan.

If I am to be honest then KSA has helped Pakistan more than vice versa (if money is the measure) but when you are friendly or allies you don't think like that.

We are off-topic anyway despite there being two threads about this news.

Why don't you use another thread to bullshit about KSA? There are tons of such threads on PDF to use for that purpose after all where ignorants can roam around freely spreading their nonsense and hatred while never even encountering a Saudi Arabian in their life or ever visiting KSA. It seems that everyone is an expert on KSA.

If you have a problem with the leaders of KSA then insult them instead. The common man and woman is not responsible for all that you blame KSA for.

 

[That Guy]

This is a leaked news by French news agency and you already know the transaction details!

This is not leaked news, this is simply a confirmation. This entire event has been happening for quite a while now, we already knew it was going to occur sooner or later, and why it was going to happen eventually.

KSA has not paid 1 single Riyal to finance this deal.

Source;

Rafale ; comment l'Egypte va payer ? | L'Opinion

"Le contrat entre la France et l'Egypte, qui doit être formellement signé en début de semaine au Caire, est de 5,2 milliards d'euros. Il s'agit, en fait, de cinq contrats différents, conclus avec Dassault-Aviation pour les Rafale, MBDA pour des missiles, DCNS pour la frégate Fremm, Sagem pour des bombes A2SM et Lacroix pour différents systèmes comme des leurres. Le plus petit d'entre eux est supérieur à 100 millions d'euros, explique-t-on dans l'entourage du ministre de la Défense.

L'Egypte va financer sur ses fonds propres «un peu moins de 50%» du montant total, soit plus de 2 milliards. Pour le reste, l'Egypte va emprunter de l'argent à des banques françaises, à des taux inférieurs à ceux du marché pour un pays dans la situation économique de l'Egypte. Ces prêts seront intégralement garantis par la Coface (compagnie française d'assurance pour le commerce extérieur). Les équipements sont payés au moment de la livraison."

Sure, but would you be surprised if they did? Consider the following. Egypt's economy is in shambles right now, and it requires a lot of aid to fix it. The Gulf nations, minus Qatar, have already pledged to give economic aid to Egypt. With KSA being a close ally to Sisi, would you be surprised about learning that KSA paid for this?

I believe it, but I can understand why you would be skeptical. Egypt has a pretty decent military budget, so it would be hard to believe that they would require such help, but considering it's economy, any military acquisition would cost quite a bit.

 

[al-Hasani]

This is not leaked news, this is simply a confirmation. This entire event has been happening for quite a while now, we already knew it was going to occur sooner or later, and why it was going to happen eventually.


Sure.

Do you have any evidence of KSA financing this deal? Anything reliable outside of conspiracy theories and rumors? If so please tell us about them.
KSA rarely ever makes it a secret if it helps finance another country's military purchases like with the supposed deal with Lebanon and France. Or when KSA financed the Pakistani nuclear program.

 

[Falcon29]

Do you have any evidence of KSA financing this deal? Anything reliable outside of conspiracy theories and rumors? If so please tell us about them.
KSA rarely ever makes it a secret if it helps finance another country's military purchases like with the supposed deal with Lebanon and France. Or when KSA financed the Pakistani nuclear program.

I don't mind KSA financing deal. As long as weapons aren't used to target Libyans or Sinai residents. On contrary Arab world needs more of this wealth sharing to improve security. But most Arab nations fear acquiring weapons. Like Jordan and Lebanon and it doesn't make sense except funding Egypt. They should continue to fund Egypt to increase capabilities as long as they aren't used against fellow Arabs.

 

[al-Hasani]

I don't mind KSA financing deal. As long as weapons aren't used to target Libyans or Sinai residents. On contrary Arab world needs more of this wealth sharing to improve security. But most Arab nations fear acquiring weapons. Like Jordan and Lebanon and it doesn't make sense except funding Egypt. They should continue to fund Egypt to increase capabilities as long as they aren't used against fellow Arabs.

There is no proof whatsoever that KSA has financed this deal. If there were then the local media, French (that I quoted from for instance) or Egyptian media would have reported this long ago.

KSA has no problem making it officially known that it supported country x or y financially. Just look at the recent deal that Lebanon made with France that KSA is apparently going to finance.

The GCC already donated/loaned enough of money to Egypt. Now it's up to the Egyptians to improve their economy.

Also it seems that King Salman is not too keen to continue King Abdullah's habit of playing "sugar daddy" across the Muslim world.

Can't say that it bothers me.

 

[That Guy]

Do you have any evidence of KSA financing this deal? Anything reliable outside of conspiracy theories and rumors? If so please tell us about them.
KSA rarely ever makes it a secret if it helps finance another country's military purchases like with the supposed deal with Lebanon and France. Or when KSA financed the Pakistani nuclear program.

Re-read my comment. I've added to it, my point of view.

To answer your point here, KSA's finance of Pakistan's nuclear program was and is still considered a secret, albeit an open secret.

With Lebanon, they're trying to counter Iran's influence in the region, of course they would be open about it.

 

[Falcon29]

@al-Hasani

I know it didn't finaicne it. I'm just saying method of financing for should not be a problem if we wanted to do so in future.

 

[That Guy]

There is no proof whatsoever that KSA has financed this deal. If there were then the local media, French (that I quoted from for instance) or Egyptian media would have reported this long ago.

KSA has no problem making it officially known that it supported country x or y financially. Just look at the recent deal that Lebanon made with France that KSA is apparently going to finance.

The GCC already donated/loaned enough of money to Egypt. Now it's up to the Egyptians to improve their economy.

Also it seems that King Salman is not to keen to continue King Abdullah's habit of playing "sugar daddy" across the Muslim world.

You're looking at it the wrong way, as if we're criticizing. It is not a negative for Egypt, nor is it a negative for KSA or the gulf. The Saudi government wants to expand it's influence and kick out Qatar (for Egypt) and Iran (for Lebanon), as they're it's main rivals in the region. Egypt needs the help, so it's win-win for both. Now, because Qatar is considered an "ally" officially, the deal is going to be more hush hush, so as to avoid geopolitical ramifications, and infighting.

This deal has been going on long before Salman became king, this sort of decision cannot be easily changed over night, or even in a week.

 

[al-Hasani]

Re-read my comment. I've added to it, my point of view.

To answer your point here, KSA's finance of Pakistan's nuclear program was and is still considered a secret, albeit an open secret.

With Lebanon, they're trying to counter Iran's influence in the region, of course they would be open about it.

I am just saying that you have to provide a proof of your claim. Namely that KSA financed this deal. So far no serious local Saudi Arabian, Egyptian or French media have reported this. Very strange.

Also as I told then KSA never makes it a secret if it offers financial help or loans to friendly countries. Or organizations or humanitarian work. When KSA/GCC donated money to Egypt due to their poor economy they announced this openly.

Yes, an open secret which everyone knew about in KSA. So it was never a secret. The claim of KSA financing this deal has never been talked about simply because it is not true. There are 3 parties here and strangely none have reported about such a possibility.

Yes in the international arena it's all about power and influence.

 

[Falcon29]

Awkward that this article comes at this timing.....:

IDF says 'matter of time' before ISIS in Sinai targets towns near Egypt border - Israel News - Jerusalem Post

 

[That Guy]

I am just saying that you have to provide a proof of your claim. Namely that KSA financed this deal. So far no serious local Saudi Arabian, Egyptian or French media have reported this. Very strange.

Also as I told then KSA never makes it a secret if it offers financial help or loans to friendly countries. Or organizations or humanitarian work. When KSA/GCC donated money to Egypt due to their poor economy they announced this openly.

Yes, an open secret which everyone knew about in KSA. So it was never a secret. The claim of KSA financing this deal has never been talked about simply because it is not true. There are 3 parties here and strangely none have reported about such a possibility.

Yes in the international arena it's all about power and influence.

There have been rumors going on for quite a while now (based on an article a while back), while I have no evidence for such a deal, considering the circumstances, there is reasonable suspicion about how the Egyptians are financing this. There is no way they can afford it currently, considering their situation.

I never said they kept their economic aid a secret, and I know quite well that they were open about their aid to Egypt, but military matters are quite different. It's flawed to compare the two and come to a conclusion based on such a method.

Awkward that this article comes at this timing.....:

IDF says 'matter of time' before ISIS in Sinai targets towns near Egypt border - Israel News - Jerusalem Post

Won't happen. Sisi is too vested in keeping up appearance to allow such an event to occur, and if it does occur, Egypt is going to come down hard on ISIS.

Having said that, the two events are unrelated. Rafales and FREMM won't do much against a local insurgency. Their other systems such as attack helis are enough to handle such situation. An expensive solution for a cheap problem is not something Egypt is looking for.

 

[Oublious]

I don't get it. They have 200 f16 and they are now buying rafael. instead of upgrading the f16 fleet he is buying another fighter. Ther is no logic!

 

[al-Hasani]

There have been rumors going on for quite a while now (based on an article a while back), while I have no evidence for such a deal, considering the circumstances, there is reasonable suspicion about how the Egyptians are financing this. There is no way they can afford it currently, considering their situation.

I never said they kept their economic aid a secret, and I know quite well that they were open about their aid to Egypt, but military matters are quite different. It's flawed to compare the two and come to a conclusion based on such a method.

The French source that I quoted earlier in this thread tell exactly how the deal is going to be financed. No mention of KSA. I have not found anything in the Egyptian or Saudi Arabian media either.

If rumors in some article is enough to define what is reality or what is bluff then almost everything reported should be taken as face value.

Egypt is not a tiny state or a colony of anybody. Your theory about KSA somehow "conquering" Egypt from the wrath of small Qatar is very simplistic. If KSA really played all the cards in Egypt then you would not see Egyptian and Russian relations as seen in recent weeks.

KSA and Qatar do not have hostile ties anymore. Not that they were ever really hostile. Just disagreements.

Until I see solid evidence of KSA financing this deal (in its entirety or partially) there is nothing more to discus for my part with all due respect.

We will have to disagree here.