What's new

Egypt | Army Ousts Mursi govt, violence erupts | News & Discussions

Actually to be honest then that was only the case like 40-10 years ago when KSA dominated the Asian Cup of Nations took part in 4 World Cups and Iran were also quite good back then. Other than those two countries only Egypt were close but their success has mostly been in the last 10 years. Oh, and they are a African team who compete in the African Cup of Nations.

Other than that no other Western Asian teams were any good.

Compare then South Korea and Japan today or in the last 10 years. Japan has now won 4 Asian Cups and now 1 more than both KSA and Iran. They have taken part in every World Cup in the last 4 editions.

South Korea too. They even reached the semifinal of the World Cup in 2002 at home and only lost the bronze game to Turkey.

Also look at all the players from Japan and South Korea. A lot of them play for top clubs in Europe. Nobody does that from West Asia.

The KSA league is strong though (Asian standards) and teams from KSA have won the most Asian Champions League tournaments in West Asia but that is another story than the national teams. Still football teams (club) from Japan and South Korea have won more Asian Champions League's.

Also East Asian teams are also better technically in my opinion.

Not at all, East Asia only has Japan and South Korea. That's it. I dont count Australia because its not an Asian nation.
Look at the gap between them and the rest of East Asian teams, its monumental. Teams like China, Indonesia, Vietnam, India, Malaysia etc etc are all pretty crap, or mediocre at best for Asian standards.
Syria, Oman, Lebanon, Bahrain, Jordan, Kuwait etc are getting better would beat those other teams I mentioned, 7-8 times out of 10.

South Korea has good talent pool but most importantly youth program and football infrastructure that goes with it. Japan too. They plan for the future and invest.
If Middle East developed those kind of extensive program, they would be ahead. Because no question they have better talent.

Just look at the World Cup qualifiers. Out of all 10 teams, 6 were teams from Middle East, and only 2 east asian teams. Again I dont count Australia. And Uzbekistan is west asian/central.
 
.
Iraq playing awesome. They have some great youth talent. I think as Iraq is getting up on its feet, it can develop better football infrastructure to really develop their talent further.

The East Asia (Korea, Japan etc) just have better political and econimical situation so they can be ahead of many aspects of life, including sports. Hopefully we will see gradual change in this.
I think talentwise in general West Asia is better than East Asia.

Only too bad the junior games get little attention, barely anyone cares, still its good news knowing in the future we will see them playing at the world cup.
 
.
Yep,it's a good comparison,trying to rule a country by sharia is equal to sending that country to the middle ages.In fact,I think that like the nazi party in Germany,islamic parties should be banned from attending politics.Their agenda goes against democracy and an egalitarian,free society,i'm glad that the army in Egypt is taking these steps to protect the people,including arresting high ruling members in the MB as they are doing in the last few hours.Out of sight,out of mind,Egypt must look to the future not to the past!

The only message your post gives is that of ignorant bigotry and hatred toward a system that U and have no idea off and neither U ever lived in. Funny how U are rambling about democracy while a democratic gov have been ousted within a year of assuming power inheriting the result of decades of egalitarian secular rule. Egypt is not looking to the future but some loons are looking up to their zionist masters. A idologically devided country have been permanently ruptured apart today and openly send the message to a vast section of egyptians that they don't belong to their own country.
 
.
.

BREAKING NEWS:Reuters: Egyptian security forces arrest key member of Muslim Brotherhood near Libyan border

Instead, this news shall be captioned as 'Running to the lap of US'
 
.
Thəorətic Muslim;4486416 said:
I'm not going to have any disagreements with you, as your front Egypt. But what are you guys going to do if the MB gets another majority in the ballot boxes?
we wont do a thing what we care about is a constitution that represent all Egyptians whoever will be in power cant use the army police judges for political gains and that is what we want
 
. .
Not at all, East Asia only has Japan and South Korea. That's it. I dont count Australia because its not an Asian nation.
Look at the gap between them and the rest of East Asian teams, its monumental. Teams like China, Indonesia, Vietnam, India, Malaysia etc etc are all pretty crap, or mediocre at best for Asian standards.
Syria, Oman, Lebanon, Bahrain Kuwait etc are getting much harder would beat those other teams I mentioned, 7-8 times out of 10.

South Korea has good talent pool but most importantly youth program and football infrastructure that goes with it. Japan too. They plan for the future and invest.
If Middle East developed those kind of extensive program, they would be ahead. Because no question they have better talent.

Well East Asia is really only Japan and South Korea obviously since there is no other there. China are horrible and all the remaining nations there despite big populations. I was solely talking about Japan and South Korea.

Australia is not East Asia but they compete in Oceania.

Yes, all Arab countries are better than all those you mentioned but they are also among the worst teams in the world.

Well youth infrastructure is another thing altogether. Most Arabs countries have that too and Iran as well. It's not Africa that we are talking about here.

Well, right now the talent mass is better in South Korea and Japan in my opinion. Before it was in West Asia. Times changes and football is not any different.

Most importantly many West Asian players lack discipline while Japanese and South Korean players are really disciplined hence why so many of them play at good top clubs in Europe. Or just look at their club teams in the Asian Champions League.

AFC Champions League - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyway I do hope that the Arab teams will again dominate but I believe that it will take some time. UAE - just won the Gulf Cup - ironically most of their players had Yemeni origin including the best Arab player currently - Omar Abdul-Rahman Al-Amoodi and Iraq.

KSA who used to be the best Arab team are struggling now but some of the youth teams seems to have a lot of potential. Will have to wait though.

Frank Rijkaard was a fiasco though.

Anyway they are not even close to the teams from 20-10 years back that dominated the Asian Cup or took part in 4 World Cup's in a row or even played in the Confederation Cup finals in the middle of the 1990's.
 
.
sitetheme_logo.gif


Redoing the Egyptian Revolution

How to Get the Transition Right This Time

Nathan J. Brown
July 3, 2013
Article Summary and Author Biography

Brown_EgyptsConstitutional_411.jpg

Tahrir Square, July 3, 2013. (Asmaa Waguih / Courtesy Reuters)

The Egyptian uprising of 2011 was about many things, but one rallying cry that united almost all Egyptians was the need for a new constitutional order -- one that would promote democracy and ensure that the government serves the interests of the entire society. Dissatisfied with the outcome, large numbers of Egyptians renewed that protest on June 30. Once again, popular demonstrations culminated in the military intervening, this time to reverse the results of the earlier revolution. Again, the generals deposed the president and suspended the constitution. But this time, the victims were Mohamed Morsi and the constitution that had been approved in a referendum just half a year ago. Now Egyptians will to try, once more, to realize a democratic and stable future. Unfortunately, they may not achieve their original goal any time soon.

That is not because Egyptians have no constitutional tradition. They do; it dates back further than that of many European countries. Nor is it because the Egyptian constitutional tradition lacks sophistication, richness, or poplar resonance. It has all these things.

What Egypt lacks, however, is a sound tradition of constitution writing. Mundane procedural problems were the Achilles heel of the 2011 transition, and now the body that made all those mistakes, the Egyptian military high command, has delivered a new road map. Not only is this new plan riddled with some of the same flaws as the old one, it will be put in place in an atmosphere that is anything but conducive to success.

In 2011, there was reason to be hopeful. There was a broad consensus in Egypt that a new constitution should be democratic, protect human rights, and whittle away the power of the presidency, which under deposed leader Hosni Mubarak, were virtually unlimited. Disagreements about the proper constitutional role of religion were sometimes profound, but the drafters were able to come to some reasonable compromises.

The document that the drafters produced did accomplish some of the revolutionaries’ goals. And the content was far less problematic than some critics alleged. But the process left a very bitter taste in many mouths. The drafters had followed the procedures laid out immediately after the 2011 uprising. But those procedures relied on the willpower of a rough majority, not on inclusive deliberation.

The result was that Egyptians had a constitution but no widely accepted rules of the political game and no easy way to settle differences between the vying factions. Some of the blame can be laid at the feet of the Muslim Brotherhood, which used its electoral weight to dominate the process. Some of the blame can be laid at the feet of the opposition, whose main strategy could be summed up as a petulant “No” to any Muslim Brotherhood suggestion.

In truth, however, the seeds of Egypt’s difficulties were planted much earlier, when the military decided to favor haste and majoritarianism during the 2011 transition. Not only that, they also set a dangerous precedent. Claiming “revolutionary legitimacy,” the army said that, until the new constitution was written, the rules of the game were whatever the army said they were -- even if the army changed its mind. When Morsi was elected before the constitution was written, he claimed the same power. Then, when he shoved through his own constitutional declaration in November 2012 in order to rush the process ahead, he was only following in the generals’ footsteps.

The result was fatal. Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood might have gotten what they wanted in the short term, but their new constitution hastened their demise. And now, Egypt faces yet another constitutional process, again forced through by generals.

That process also appears rushed and badly designed. Justice Adli Mansour, the president of the Supreme Constitutional Court, a genial but unknown figure, is set to serve as president, apparently with the unilateral authority to design the interim constitutional order however he sees fit. Critical questions of sequence are simply omitted. The military has promised to consult everyone but has laid out only the vaguest mechanisms for doing so. The generals have promised to appoint a committee to offer amendments to the 2012 constitution (that is likely a way to forestall any attempt to reopen debate about the military’s favorite clauses in that document) but provided little guidance on what to amend or how to do so.

The roadmap also tells weary Egyptian voters that they are to be summoned back to the polls over and over again to reelect the two houses of parliament, a new president, and (presumably) to approve the constitutional amendments. The legal framework that will guide some of these elections might need to be modified, but how to do so is anyone’s guess. (The upper house of the parliament, which is dominated by the Muslim Brotherhood, submitted an election law for the Supreme Constitutional Court’s review last week. The court has yet to approve that law, nor is it clear who would make changes to the law if the court said that revisions were needed.)

To fill these gaping holes, the army returns to promises that everything will be done by consensus. With a society that is deeply divided, though, that is the biggest problem of all. This time, there is no warm afterglow of a popular uprising. Instead, there is a victorious but disparate majority and an embittered Islamist minority. There is a set of political actors who, in the last year, have raced each other to demonstrate as much bad faith with regard to democracy as possible. And there are traditions of political dialogue that make barroom brawls seem genteel.

In one way, Egyptian political practice resembles that of the United States -- both societies like to do things their own way. Just as few American political leaders would have a good word for the metric system or international law, Egyptian political leaders love to talk about foreign hands and eschew international expertise. So Egypt will insist on finding its own way out of its predicament. It can perhaps do that in a productive manner, but only if it does so gradually, and only if the political parties learn to talk through some of their differences. Then, consensus will become less a weapon and more a tool for slowly and carefully crafting real constitutional rules. If that happens -- and it probably will not any time soon -- it will be in spite of the generals, not because of them.
 
. .
Egypt army cracks down on Muslim Brotherhood - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

Egypt army cracks down on Muslim Brotherhood
Leadership of toppled president Morsi's Islamist movement arrested, as top judge takes office as interim leader.

Egypt's army has rounded up the leadership of Muslim Brotherhood as a top judge took oath of office as country's interim leader, a day after the military chief toppled President Mohamed Morsi from power.

The army turned the screws on the Brotherhood on Thursday, with military police arresting supreme leader Mohamed Badie "for inciting the killing of protesters", as Brotherhood supporters protested the abrupt end of Morsi's one year rule.

He, and his powerful deputy, Khairat el-Shater, were wanted for questioning on their role in the killing this week of eight demonstrators in clashes outside the Brotherhood's Cairo headquarters.

The military chief General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi on Wednesday announced the removal of Morsi after days of nationwide protests by opposition groups calling for Islamist president's ouster.

A judicial source said the prosecution would on Monday begin questioning members of the group, including Morsi, for "insulting the judiciary" as the charges begin to pile up.

Other Brotherhood leaders would be questioned on the same charges, including the head of the group's political arm Saad al-Katatni, Mohammed al-Beltagui, Gamal Gibril and Taher Abdel Mohsen.

Morsi and other senior leaders have also been banned from travel pending investigation into their involvement in a prison break in 2011.

Morsi himself has been held in an unknown location since the generals pushed him out a year after he became Egypt's first democratically elected president.

The army also shut down several TV stations, including one operated by the Muslim Brotherhood, and the offices of Al Jazeera's Egyptian news channel in Cairo.

Interim president

The announcement of the arrests on Thursday came as chief justice Adly Mansour, 67, was sworn in as interim president at a ceremony broadcast live from the Supreme Constitutional Court.



On Wednesday evening, the military chief announced that the new interim president will serve until elections at a yet-to-be determined date, as he laid out a roadmap for a political transition that includes a freeze on the Islamist-drafted constitution.

Dressed in a dark blue suit and a sky blue tie, Mansour used his first remarks as interim leader to praise the massive street demonstrations that led to Morsi's ouster.

He hailed the youth behind the protests that began on June 30 and brought out millions around the country.

June 30 "corrected the path of the glorious revolution that took place on Jan. 25," he said, referring to the revolt against autocrat Hosni Mubarak that began January 25, 2011 and led to his ouster 18 days later.

"The most glorious thing about June 30 is that it brought together everyone without discrimination or division," he said.

"I offer my greetings to the revolutionary people of Egypt."

"I look forward to parliamentary and presidential elections held with the genuine and authentic will of the people," Mansour said.

Judicial clash

That fact that Mansour comes from the Constitutional Court adds a symbolic sting to Morsi's ouster.

The Islamist leader and his Muslim Brotherhood backers had repeatedly clashed with the judiciary, particularly the constitutional court, while in power, accusing the judges of being loyalists of former autocrat Hosni Mubarak, who was ousted in a 2011 uprising, and saying they seek to undermine Egypt's shift to democratic rule.


Muslim Brotherhood's supreme leader Mohamed Badie (left) and his deputy, Khairat el-Shater
The judges, meanwhile, had repeatedly challenged the Brotherhood's policies and what many in Egypt considered the group's march to power.

The Constitutional Court dissolved the Islamist-dominated parliament in June last year, saying it was illegally elected. It rejected a Morsi decree to reinstate the chamber.

The Brotherhood announced it would boycott the new military-sponsored political process and called on its supporter to restrain themselves and not use violence.

"We declare our uncompromising rejection of the military coup staged against the elected president and the will of the nation and refuse to participate in any activist with the usurping authorities," said the statement, which the group's mufti Abdel-Rahman el-Barr read to the Morsi's supporters staging a days-long sit-in in Cairo.


Source: Agencies
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They are correcting the path of glorious revolution by bringing back army rule.:rolleyes: Its the same as what used to happen in turkey where army and secular "constitutional" court could throw out elected representative as per their will.
 
.
Well East Asia is really only Japan and South Korea obviously since there is no other there. China are horrible and all the remaining nations there despite big populations. I was solely talking about Japan and South Korea.

Australia is not East Asia but they compete in Oceania.

Yes, all Arab countries are better than all those you mentioned but they are also among the worst teams in the world.

Well youth infrastructure is another thing altogether. Most Arabs countries have that too and Iran as well. It's not Africa that we are talking about here.

Well, right now the talent mass is better in South Korea and Japan in my opinion. Before it was in West Asia. Times changes and football is not any different.

Most importantly many West Asian players lack discipline while Japanese and South Korean players are really disciplined hence why so many of them play at good top clubs in Europe. Or just look at their club teams in the Asian Champions League.

AFC Champions League - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyway I do hope that the Arab teams will again dominate but I believe that it will take some time. UAE - just won the Gulf Cup - ironically most of their players had Yemeni origin including the best Arab player currently - Omar Abdul-Rahman Al-Amoodi and Iraq.

KSA who used to be the best Arab team are struggling now but some of the youth teams seems to have a lot of potential. Will have to wait though.

Frank Rijkaard was a fiasco though.

Anyway they are not even close to the teams from 20-10 years back that dominated the Asian Cup or took part in 4 World Cup's in a row or even played in the Confederation Cup finals in the middle of the 1990's.

Well yes there is football infrastructure, but not to same extent as SK and Japan. Lets look at Saudi Arabia and Iran as clear examples of everything that is wrong. They dont invest the way South Korea and Japan does. Must be investment in all aspects from the grass root. Facilities, youth program, leagues, issue of privatization etc.

Just look at Iranian and Saudi league. Not nearly competetive enough. So many serious flaws. Most teams are government owned and the players are OVERPAYED. This kills their motivation to pursue careers in more competetive leagues in Europe (while earnign less money).
These overpayed primadonnas would rather choose comfort and stay at home, earning money they dont deserve (in such high amounts).

So we dont have the same conditions for success as SK and Japan. The system needs much reform.

South Korea and Japan does have talent, no quesiton. The difference being they invest much more and plan 10-20 years ahead.
 
. . .
One indian complained that Arabs are happy, but why (arab) al-jazeera and basijis are running like mad cow?

Can you not continue sharing your emotions in single thread?
 
.
Not true,i watched CNN to,every hour they had a reporter giving live feeds from the pro Morsi rallies,they had guests from the MB stating their opinion.

I am still amazed to see that many people here don't understand that democracy isn't about electing someone and that guy does whatever he wants until next elections,you have to rule within rules and respect the minority.Morsi wanted to transform Egypt in an islamic state,that goes outside democracy,in fact islamic rule is the opposite.He had to go for Egypt to have a chance at survival.
I can second this, CNN showed both rally's as well as both opinions.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom