EDEX 2018: Egypt eyes JF-17 Thunder Block-III

[MastanKhan]

Helwan HA-300 was a single-engine, delta-wing, light supersonic interceptor aircraft developed in Egypt during the 1960s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helwan_HA-300

Work on the Egyptian interceptor began in 1959

And for your information..Egypt fought Usrael and won the 1973 Ramadan war with mig-21 alone Against the American F-4 phantom , Mirage and sky hawks..these Migs had no radar, could stay less than half an hour in flight and could carry only two air to air missiles.. it is the men who fought..not the machine..You can just imagine what EAF is now..with F-16..still with a 50 Km bvr.. but mostly with Rafale, Mig-35 and SU-35 all with excellent bvr capabilities....Just saying!


Egypt might buy it from China..and Pakistan will still get its cut anyway..
I believe if Egypt buys it..it will be from both..since Pakistan has a good production line and a very good experience at making them in good numbers..hence the know how.. while China will provide the avionics and other tech..

Hi,

Just looks like the Delta dagger F-102 with taller front landing gear and slight modifications---

The Helwan HA-300 (Arabic: حلوان ٣٠٠‎) was a single-engine, delta-wing, light supersonic interceptor aircraft developed in Egypt during the 1960s. It was designed by the German aircraft designer Willy Messerschmitt.

At various stages, Spain and India were involved in the development program. Spain was financing two projects, the HA-200 and the Hispano HA-300, but cancelled the HA-300 project before a prototype was built due to overruns. Egypt then took over financing, and the program was transferred to Egypt were both it and its engine would be made, and where the aircraft was successfully flown. Near the end of the program, India began financing the development of the E-300 engine for use in the Indian HF-24 Marut jet fighter.

The HA-300 was an ambitious and costly project for Egypt, at a time when it was seeking to expand both its civilian and defence aviation industry. Six aircraft had entered service before the project was terminated in 1969.

Following their defeat at the end of World War II, the West Germans were prohibited from undertaking any research or development related to aircraft until 1955, which left Willy Messerschmitt looking for work. He therefore moved to Spain where he joined Hispano Aviación and started designing an ultralight fighter aircraft in 1951.[1] A lack of funds slowed the aircraft's development and Messerschmitt was able to build only a delta-shaped tailless plywood glider. Towed by a CASA 2.111, the test flight for the glider was prematurely terminated due to instability and the airplane did not become airborne.[2] Due to funding problems and the resultant long development time, Spain abandoned the project in 1960.[3]


Front view of HA-300 showing tailed delta-wing and the undercarriage
Egypt then acquired the design from Hispano Aviación.

If pdf brigade, have no idea how Israel was pushed back, while once they were at banks of canal Suize, which is 100km from Cairo and why Egypt cherish 10th Ramadan so overwhelmingly.
They better not claim to be expert of Egyptian military and their capabilities.
I my self have read comments on pdf by the declared experts, that Egyptian army is used to sitting in Air-conditioners and good for nothing. While i have seen them patrolling in 50°C in Sinai etc. They are as solid as iron.
Egyptian Airforce pilots are trained from US, how good they are.... may be some Egyptian friend should come and explain to the useless and hateful bunch.
Where i have no doubt... is that in today's date Israel can't even think of going to war with Egypt and why should they! There are no territorial disputes!

Hi,

Well as long the egyptian army kept itself under the umbrella of its sam missiles after crossing the suez---they held good---.

But then The Egypt Pres overruled his air chief and moved the troops forward and that is where the egyptians got routed---.

 

[StormBreaker]

I didn't exactly get your question!

What i said is:
The one who's pictures were leaked from some Chinese location was the 3rd prototype and that has been finalized for production.
This was the information from the internet... non of my personal intelligence.
If you have info., of two blk3 being under production this year.. that would be limited serial production category and i calculated nothing different!

No one said it was 3rd prototype of BLOCK 3.

3000 is supposedly first pt of Block 3 which we all saw

If pdf brigade, have no idea how Israel was pushed back, while once they were at banks of canal Suize, which is 100km from Cairo and why Egypt cherish 10th Ramadan so overwhelmingly.
They better not claim to be expert of Egyptian military and their capabilities.
I my self have read comments on pdf by the declared experts, that Egyptian army is used to sitting in Air-conditioners and good for nothing. While i have seen them patrolling in 50°C in Sinai etc. They are as solid as iron.
Egyptian Airforce pilots are trained from US, how good they are.... may be some Egyptian friend should come and explain to the useless and hateful bunch.
Where i have no doubt... is that in today's date Israel can't even think of going to war with Egypt and why should they! There are no territorial disputes!

I didn’t say such about Egyptian army atleast. After all, they are the powerhouse of Arab countries...

Plus, Egyptians are no regular rich arabs, they are used to hardships and regular tough life.

 

[The SC]

Hi,

Just looks like the Delta dagger F-102 with taller front landing gear and slight modifications---

View attachment 622882 View attachment 622883

The Helwan HA-300 (Arabic: حلوان ٣٠٠‎) was a single-engine, delta-wing, light supersonic interceptor aircraft developed in Egypt during the 1960s. It was designed by the German aircraft designer Willy Messerschmitt.

At various stages, Spain and India were involved in the development program. Spain was financing two projects, the HA-200 and the Hispano HA-300, but cancelled the HA-300 project before a prototype was built due to overruns. Egypt then took over financing, and the program was transferred to Egypt were both it and its engine would be made, and where the aircraft was successfully flown. Near the end of the program, India began financing the development of the E-300 engine for use in the Indian HF-24 Marut jet fighter.

The HA-300 was an ambitious and costly project for Egypt, at a time when it was seeking to expand both its civilian and defence aviation industry. Six aircraft had entered service before the project was terminated in 1969.

Following their defeat at the end of World War II, the West Germans were prohibited from undertaking any research or development related to aircraft until 1955, which left Willy Messerschmitt looking for work. He therefore moved to Spain where he joined Hispano Aviación and started designing an ultralight fighter aircraft in 1951.[1] A lack of funds slowed the aircraft's development and Messerschmitt was able to build only a delta-shaped tailless plywood glider. Towed by a CASA 2.111, the test flight for the glider was prematurely terminated due to instability and the airplane did not become airborne.[2] Due to funding problems and the resultant long development time, Spain abandoned the project in 1960.[3]


Front view of HA-300 showing tailed delta-wing and the undercarriage
Egypt then acquired the design from Hispano Aviación.

Hi,

Well as long the egyptian army kept itself under the umbrella of its sam missiles after crossing the suez---they held good---.

But then The Egypt Pres overruled his air chief and moved the troops forward and that is where the egyptians got routed---.

Egyptian Engineers modified the whole design around their own new Engine helped to conceive it by the Austrian designer "Brandner" ..

Then the trap was set already..
Can you believe that The Egyptians would leave a big gap like that open and deserted between the 2nd and 3rd army .. just like that..
and can you believe that Egypt had only 100 000 men army!?

There is a thread here on PDF called "Operation Shamel" ..It shows how IDF was trapped..And the US had to threaten force..

Here is a good read @MastanKhan

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/1973...of-the-gap-comprehensive-chaamil-plan.512349/https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/1973...of-the-gap-comprehensive-chaamil-plan.512349/

 

[BATMAN]

Hi,

Well as long the egyptian army kept itself under the umbrella of its sam missiles after crossing the suez---they held good---.

But then The Egypt Pres overruled his air chief and moved the troops forward and that is where the egyptians got routed---.

I have heard that part as well... was it not the earlier war of 1967?
Actually in 1973 Ramadan war Egyptians pushed Israelis back. In any case that's history and Egyptian army and nation have come long way from that point. At least i can confirm the part on technical progress and pilot training. Again war is an integrated affair and can't confirm where Egypt army stands in that sphere.

 

[StormBreaker]

Egyptian Engineers modified the whole design around their own new Engine helped to conceive it by the Austrian designer "Brandner" ..

Then the trap was set already..
Can you believe that The Egyptians would leave a big gap like that open and deserted between the 2nd and 3rd army .. just like that..
and can you believe that Egypt had only 100 000 men army!?

There is a thread here on PDF called "Operation Shamel" ..It shows how IDF was trapped..And the US had to threaten force..

BTW, I meant no disrespect earlier, that guy asked for it. You will find me praising as well as criticizing everyone where necessary, Be it Arabs, Turks, Iran, India, Israel and even My own country. So I am no biased mind.

So enlighten me of how is local Egyptian industry doing recently ?
What are the future plannings ? I have a saying “Egyptians are the Professor Arabs”, like if you want a nerd or a bookworm arab, go to Egypt, you will find many. High scoring and achieving students of Egypt, bright minds.

So it would be really unimpressive if Egypt isn’t working on big things yet.

Like about fighter programs or trainers. About avionics and Joint ventures. Local assemblies.

In terms of aviation only...

 

[BATMAN]

No one said it was 3rd prototype of BLOCK 3.

3000 is supposedly first pt of Block 3 which we all saw

That's stupid supposedly.

 

[StormBreaker]

That's stupid supposedly.

You have any evidence that it was 3rd prototype of Block 3 ? No...

So how can you call me or everyone else stupid ?

 

[BATMAN]

You have any evidence that it was 3rd prototype of Block 3 ? No...

So how can you call me or everyone else stupid ?

You are not every one... and neither i call you stupid.
If you think only one prototype lead to blk3 that's stupid thinking. irrespective its you or every one else as in your words.
Go ask the gods of pdf for clarification.
I was also the first one giving out the thrust of upgraded engine, people as well asked me to give proof.
I also predicted about Imran Khan back in early 2000 that he's going to deliver no good to Pakistan... today no one would dare ask for evidence.

 

[MastanKhan]

I have heard that part as well... was it not the earlier war of 1967?
Actually in 1973 Ramadan war Egyptians pushed Israelis back. In any case that's history and Egyptian army and nation have come long way from that point. At least i can confirm the part on technical progress and pilot training. Again war is an integrated affair and can't confirm where Egypt army stands in that sphere.

Hi,

That was in 1973---when Anwer Sadaat was the president and I believe Gen Shzli was the air chief---.

By overruling Shazli---Sadaat chose defeat over the overwhelming victory after crossing the suez---. Did a lots of damage to the egyptian army and air force in the process---.

The mig21's were no match for the american phantoms without the Sam air cover---.

Where the mig21 could stay in the air for 30 minutes---the Phantom would loiter around for hours and the moment the migs were landing desperate to refuel---the Phantoms would pounce on them and take them out---.

 

[StormBreaker]

You are not every one... and neither i call you stupid.
If you think only one prototype lead to blk3 that's stupid thinking. irrespective its you or every one else as in your words.
Go ask the gods of pdf for clarification.
I was also the first one giving out the thrust of upgraded engine, people as well asked me to give proof.
I also predicted about Imran Khan back in early 2000 that he's going to deliver no good to Pakistan... today no one would dare ask for evidence.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @HRK @aliyusuf Is 3000 the third prototype of Block 3 or First or second ?

 

[Amun]

Bro you can flex all you want with GDP and Arab superiority. But the fact is we have love and respect for Turks because they treat us with love and respect. Therefore, we return same vibe.

If you snap out of your Arab superiroity and stop mistreating Ajam then you will also enjoy same respect.

BTW Pakistanis often treat Arabs with respect in spirit of brotherhood but sadly Arabs are too mired in their superiority complex to realize.

I know how dedicated Egyptians really are to their nation.

We as Pakistanis are mostly patriotic by mouth but most of our actions are hypocritic and destroys the interests of this nation.

You guys on the other hand mostly are working hard, taking every chance you get to lead your nation up & up.

I know Egyptians very well, Good and rude as well, But what matters is loyalty to the nation which is very much available.


Nothing sad in that, Other day, I advised you to open up your mind, get in the reality of the world, taunting and blaming others, venting your frustration on someone who doesn’t need it doesn’t make one better...

full respect to you and all nations... Muslims or not ..... we as Egyptians don’t have any negative feelings regarding any nation.... we are peaceful Nation but if any one attacked us and thinking he will not suffer that is totally wrong be it Crusaders, Mongols , Israel Or Turks ..

we don’t have too much info about Pakistan......
our perception for Pakistan is a state that has National pride ..... a state that When it’s No1 enemy has Nuks ..... Pakistanis work day and night to reach to the knowledge of the Nuclear bomb.....
a country that has so religious people..... that’s all we know all positive things about Pakistan ....

So what I’m seeing here is shocking

that level of hostility then going down to insulting Egyptians ... and make fun of our National sacrifices in fighting Israel/ US in order to gain some Turkish likes .... forgive me brothers .. it requires response.

 

[The SC]

Hi,

That was in 1973---when Anwer Sadaat was the president and I believe Gen Shzli was the air chief---.

By overruling Shazli---Sadaat chose defeat over the overwhelming victory after crossing the suez---. Did a lots of damage to the egyptian army and air force in the process---.

The mig21's were no match for the american phantoms without the Sam air cover---.

Where the mig21 could stay in the air for 30 minutes---the Phantom would loiter around for hours and the moment the migs were landing desperate to refuel---the Phantoms would pounce on them and take them out---.

The Air Chief was Mubarak the late president..Chazli was the chief of staff..
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/1973...of-the-gap-comprehensive-chaamil-plan.512349/
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/1973...of-the-gap-comprehensive-chaamil-plan.512349/

 

[BATMAN]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @HRK @aliyusuf Is 3000 the third prototype of Block 3 or First or second ?

That's the right way of debate... ask for clarifications, if you have hard time believing it.

It may be fourth, but that could be memory issue, which makes no difference, but definitely not first..
It's alright if final product was after 2-3 prototypes, nothing wrong with it.

 

[StormBreaker]

full respect to you and all nations... Muslims or not ..... we as Egyptians don’t have any negative feelings regarding any nation.... we are peaceful Nation but if any one attacked us and thinking he will not suffer that is totally wrong be it Crusaders, Mongols , Israel Or Turks ..

we don’t have too much info about Pakistan......
our perception for Pakistan is a state that has National pride ..... a state that When it’s No1 enemy has Nuks ..... Pakistanis work day and night to reach to the knowledge of the Nuclear is bomb.....
a country that has so religious people..... that’s all we know all positive things about Pakistan ....

So what I’m seeing here is shocking

that level of hostility then going down to insulting Egyptians ... and make fun of our National sacrifices in fighting Israel/ US in order to gain some Turkish likes .... forgive me brothers .. it requires response.

I know egyptians very well brother. That’s why I am supporting the good side of egyptians as well as criticizing that crap member who went all bs over pak...

 

[aziqbal]

NO No NO

do not sell JF17 Block III to Egypt

Egypt will end up having it shot down by the Israelis and it will do a lot of damage to our reputation due to Egyptain incompetence

Only Block II is for sale

I have been to Egypt and love them but sorry