ECP alarmed at 28 clauses of electoral reforms bill

[ziaulislam]

They can mail it in.

Can they? Jeez what are you on?

Horse trading is a crime under penal code of Pakistan entrusted upon GoP to uphold.

No ..its ECP job..ECP called hoarse trading as "beauty of democracy"

Nonsense strawmanning is not a counter argument.

Whats strawmanning

 

[313ghazi]

Some of these are an easy fix.

ECP says right of vote to overseas Pakistanis cannot be given till the required legislation is done by the parliament regarding various practical aspects including whether they should have extra seats in the assembly, what kind of procedure should be adopted for them to vote etc

Just use the constituencies on our ID cards, our home addresses in Pakistan.

ECP says use of EVMs cannot be adopted till it is determined whether these machines are capable for conducting free and fair elections; whether they can operate in conditions of hot weather, loadshedding etc; how the accuracy, secrecy and transparency of votes can be ensured; and whether without proper testing the ECP can ensure free and fair elections with these machines

This is a big testing task. We need to develop a secure network, we need to check for load, we need to check failover, backup and restore, but it's not impossible. A decent QA team should be able to do this in a few months.

ECP says it cannot support the amendment in the bill which says some sections of the original act be omitted leading to the responsibility of preparing electoral rolls being taken away from ECP and handed over to NADRA which works under the administrative control of the federal government. The implication is that the preparation of the final electoral rolls would then be under the control of an organisation that reports to the executive and is not independent and impartial like the ECP.

Easy, cross reference electrol roll with NADRA and treat NADRA as the single source of truth. If details are different on electrol roll compared to NADRA, then consider the electrol roll incorrect and raise an enquiry into each case.

ECP also rejects the amendment changes the present practice in which NADRA sends data to ECP for registration of NIC holder as voter, and now proposes that the electoral roll will be the same as registration ID data of NADRA. The ECP says this amendment shall lead to the shifting of power of registration to NADRA whereas this is an exclusive power of ECP under Article 219 of the Constitution.

No it won't, not if ECP has access to the NADRA databases for access to read the ID. Also if needs be just create a table to map NADRA ID to ECP ID - either way it's a non issue. For data quality we should limit replication of data across multiple sources.

ECP says the proposed amendment seeks to give the right of correction in the electoral roll to NADRA by taking it away from ECP which is mandated by the constitution to make any correction in the rolls as and when required.

Doesn't have to be that way. NADRA data is considered always correct, ECP data can be mapped to NADRA data, where there is a discrepency, then an enquiry must be created. As a result of the enquiry if ECP data is found to be valid, then voter needs to update their data in NADRA and only when both NADRA and ECP data match is voter considered eligible.

ECP says it cannot support the amendment in the new bill that states that the order of priority of candidates on reserved seats submitted by political parties can be changed within three days after the elections. It says this will make it impossible for the commission to declare results fourteen days after the polling day as required by Article 224 of the Constitution. The ECP also raises an important point when it says that when a voter casts his vote during a general election, his polled vote has a direct and indirect implication. The direct result of the vote is obtained immediately in the form of the success of his candidate but the indirect result is actually instrumental in determination of result on reserved seats on the basis of proportional representation. The implication is that if the list of reserved seats is changed after the election, it will not reflect the indirect implication of the voter’s choice.

Good point. I agree.

ECP also disagrees with the amendment that proposes that enlistment of a political party should include a list of at least ten thousand members instead of the two thousand required presently. It says parties from smaller provinces and those working in less populated areas may not be able to get these numbers and this would discriminate against them whereas freedom of association should be encouraged.

Another good point, I agree. PTI is stupid to submit such points in this bill, they're making their own obstacles.

 

[Enigma SIG]

Any DevOps worth their salt can make a secure system by working in sync with cyber security researchers. Using the security canard as an excuse for not implementing EVMs is intellectual dishonesty. So the ECP is telling us Pakistanis that paper ballots are secure? They can shove that ballot where the sun don't shine.

IBMs Hyper Ledger framework alone can tackle most of the issues that can be expected in adoption of EVMs.

Also at this point if NADRA doesn't know where one resides currently, they may have to rethink their reason for existing in the first place.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

Is the government’s new election act defanging an independent ECP?

Is the government’s new election act defanging an independent ECP?

Election Commission of Pakistan examines 72 clauses of Act, objects to 44 amendments proposed by government

www.geo.tv

 

[mingle]

Is the government’s new election act defanging an independent ECP?

Is the government’s new election act defanging an independent ECP?

Election Commission of Pakistan examines 72 clauses of Act, objects to 44 amendments proposed by government

www.geo.tv

How it's defanging ECP?? Simple EVM and overseas will defang them?? Govt passed a legislation ECP has to implement or go to SC for further light

Any DevOps worth their salt can make a secure system by working in sync with cyber security researchers. Using the security canard as an excuse for not implementing EVMs is intellectual dishonesty. So the ECP is telling us Pakistanis that paper ballots are secure? They can shove that ballot where the sun don't shine.

IBMs Hyper Ledger framework alone can tackle most of the issues that can be expected in adoption of EVMs.

Also at this point if NADRA doesn't know where one resides currently, they may have to rethink their reason for existing in the first place.

EVM is nothing but a simple calculater link with Nadra deta with sheet back up they don't want to that beacuse theior masters don't want

 

[El Sidd]

It’s just a piece of paper, to be updated to keep pace with a changing nation.

So all this constitutional puritanicalism is only going to hold a country and her society back.

Just look at the mess that the US is becoming because of them treating their constitution as a bible instead of a legal document that it is.

It's not a piece of paper

 

[El Sidd]

Can they? Jeez what are you on

Probably they will be allowed to vote by post in the end of this drama

No ..its ECP job..ECP called hoarse trading as "beauty of democracy"

Under which law is ECP responsible for criminal investigations?

 

[koolio]

Who is ECP to decide what's acceptable, thier job is to make sure elections are held transparent, free and fair, it seems they are not happy with the reforms and want to maintain favourable conditions for status quo to win by fraudulent means.

 

[graphican]

PTi government and constitution of Pakistan are in direct conflict.

I stand with constitution of Pakistan

Constitution is written and ammended by parliament, by the lower and upper house.

Don't you think PTI can (as they many a times have) create and ammend laws? What's your reason of concluding above statement?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Election Comission's Job is observe stuff during election , not worry about Bills in Parliment that is job for Political Party in power


JOB DUTY :

a) Bring Ballot
b) Help people with questions
c) Manage Lines
d) Collect data / votes and ensure counting is fair process
f) Ensure safety for voters at Polling stations

 

[El Sidd]

Constitution is written and ammended by parliament, by the lower and upper house.

Don't you think PTI can (as they many a times have) create and ammend laws? What's your reason of concluding above statement?

PTI has no mandate to amend the constitution.

Ever wondered why they keep crying 18th amendment? Only the laws beneficial to the mafias get passed by the parliament through systematic design.

 

[ziaulislam]

Probably they will be allowed to vote by post in the end of this drama

Under which law is ECP responsible for criminal investigations?

criminal investigation comes after obvious disciplinary investigation


proving a crime is much more difficult then simple disciplinary action

if ECP cant take disciplinary action what hell can a criminal investigation which takes YEARS will be able to achieve??????????????????????????????????

 

[El Sidd]

criminal investigation comes after obvious disciplinary investigation


proving a crime is much more difficult then simple disciplinary action

if ECP cant take disciplinary action what hell can a criminal investigation which takes YEARS will be able to achieve??????????????????????????????????

Innocent till proven guilty is standard modus operandi.

Everyone knows ECP neither performs nor has means to perform. This doesn't mean GoP can get away with unconstitutional practices in revenge.

Supreme court has already lamented about ECP and how it should be declared defunct.

 

[mingle]

This bill just pass from Parliament now it will go to senate and Sikander Sultan & company start crying on draft which yet to pass from senate. It's more looks like dubious efforts to make narrative than actual substance when senate will pass this draft the ECP can take to SC for interpretation otherwise keep theior mouth shut and make things happen

Constitution is written and ammended by parliament, by the lower and upper house.

Don't you think PTI can (as they many a times have) create and ammend laws? What's your reason of concluding above statement?

Anybody think it's conflict then let senate pass and take that bill to SC very simple Govt can make amend any law

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The Real Problem:

ECP is a dinosaur institute , it is being replaced

1- People will be voting using Cell Phone or Website in future
2- Western Countries allow you to vote 10-15 days before election date exercise your rights
3- The In person vote is becoming old thing , it is more time effective to sit at your home and vote
4- There will be no need for Monkeys , at Poll Stations , intimidating voters and women or Youth
5- Because you can vote 15 days in advance , even if light goes out one day you can attempt next day
6- Oversea Voters will submit their vote based on the address in their NADRA card
7- Biryani Plate culture at election time is ending
8- Digital Machine , ensure your vote can't be changed unlike the paper ballot which can be burned , get damaged by water


I got my Green Passport , My Father has a Vote My Mother has a Vote, My Siblings are not yet interested in voting but may they will

A) I donated for DAM fund
B) I supported PTI for almost 10 years now
C) I support family in Pakistan


Time for me to Vote

• JAB oversea vote ata hai , to PTI koosh hota hai
• JAB ziyada oversea vote ata hai , to PTI aur koosh hota hai
• Bilawal Ko Koi vote nahi deta , Kiyon ?