Earthquake Funds---F16 Money---Where Did They Go

[War Thunder]

Ego is a horrible foe to one's own intelligence.

Gratitude makes the difference.
People should be grateful for what they have, instead of constantly drowning themselves in what could have been.
You got F-16's instead of Mirage 2000? What if you ever got either? How many Air forces around could afford the F-16?

F-16 is a wrong platform? Guess what? It's more reliable and proven than the Mirage 2000.
And above all, the Israelis operate it in high numbers, and whenever you want to assess what is better, always go with what Israelis chose for themselves, and you won't go wrong...

 

[Tps43]

The Air Marshal General Qamar Sulieman donated the F16 funds to the earthquake fund supposedly.

During earthquake time Kaleem sadat was cas and after 4 months Tanvir was CAS . qamar sulieman came much much later after earthquake.

I personally think that airforce should be made subordinate of COAS..because as a matter of fact PAF has a support role ... it is just a side kick of PA without any of its independent identity. Years of wrong decision ... BTW I'm not against acquisition of F16 because it was a better A/C than mirage 2000 but PAF should have acquired a good number of Mirage 2000s (-5, -9) etc especially when USA imposed sanctions. No airforce relies on a single A/C and even PAF has many different A/Cs like F86 Sabre and F-104 star-fighter, mirages etc
AirChief should be equal to Major general of Army in ranks along with Naval Chief and be the direct subordinate of COAS because these forces are support arms. He should select both the air and naval chiefs like he promotes brigadiers to majors and Lt generals.
... I really like the naming scheme of Chinese army PLA = People's Libration Army, so PLAA, PLAN, PLAAF.

Empowering Chairman joint staff is the solution .
I don't know when ur father retired and in branch he served but Paf is not same paf after 2011.
Miranshah radar was on daily basis used to hit by average 75 rockets till 2015 . There are many shaheeds in this wot fron paf .
Paf had hot scrambles on north Western border 15 times in year 2016 with one kill and whole world doesn't know that. Mou's have there own roles in more hostile environment then army guys they are deployed on much forward postions then army guys .
Yes paf took some wrong decisions and many CAS were wrong as well but realization came after 2012 that things can't move forward. Acm Tanvir was responsible for disbanding formations and bases few years later we had to re active them 482 , 408 , paf base lower topa all these are perfect example of shortsighted approach.
Spada 2000 became A cat opertional years later who was responsible for that?
ACM Tahir rafique butt some how reorganized thing tho he wasn't perfect himself but still then sohail aman came he uplifted paf ops wise . Those things which only ccq's were doing before 2015 now cat B guy can also do it.
ACM mujahid maybe slow in decision making but he has great analysis skills and he will move paf more well balanced in ops aspect.
What we need to do is to reorganize LOG branch and give sentences to those who are responsible for financal scams.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

It would not be the only Air Cheif that may require hanging.

Oh, I am aware that its going to be a chain effect, but needs to be done.

 

[khanmubashir]

YourAir force has more experience with French planes , and you choose F-16 instead of mirage 2000 ....... I am still not sure why PAF choose F-16 instead of Mirage 2000 after Mirage 2000 , Rafael will be the most logical step to follow

Because USA gave em at big discount due to our involvement in Soviet Afghan war at that time besides I believe mirrage 2000 came a decade after f16 and we were among the first recipients of it

 

[Raider 21]

Hi,

That is what I stated decades ago---why F16---.

If Paf had gone for the M2K's in the 80's---the indian air force would be left hanging dry.

That was a stab in the back of the French by the Paf.

Pa created a drama of the russian aircraft incursion into pakistan---the Paf mirages were enough for the russian migs---. The first afg/russian aircraft were taken out by the mirages---.



Hi,

And to top it off---many a PAF pilots had acted like traitors by refusing to bomb the terrs.

Not many. Some. Don't exaggerate. Behave according to your age.

 

[war&peace]

During earthquake time Kaleem sadat was cas and after 4 months Tanvir was CAS . qamar sulieman came much much later after earthquake.


Empowering Chairman joint staff is the solution .
I don't know when ur father retired and in branch he served but Paf is not same paf after 2011.
Miranshah radar was on daily basis used to hit by average 75 rockets till 2015 . There are many shaheeds in this wot fron paf .
Paf had hot scrambles on north Western border 15 times in year 2016 with one kill and whole world doesn't know that. Mou's have there own roles in more hostile environment then army guys they are deployed on much forward postions then army guys .
Yes paf took some wrong decisions and many CAS were wrong as well but realization came after 2012 that things can't move forward. Acm Tanvir was responsible for disbanding formations and bases few years later we had to re active them 482 , 408 , paf base lower topa all these are perfect example of shortsighted approach.
Spada 2000 became A cat opertional years later who was responsible for that?
ACM Tahir rafique butt some how reorganized thing tho he wasn't perfect himself but still then sohail aman came he uplifted paf ops wise . Those things which only ccq's were doing before 2015 now cat B guy can also do it.
ACM mujahid maybe slow in decision making but he has great analysis skills and he will move paf more well balanced in ops aspect.
What we need to do is to reorganize LOG branch and give sentences to those who are responsible for financal scams.

Excellent answer bro. @MastanKhan needs to update his information before making comments. My father retired in 2008 .. rest of the details I will reveal in a pm may be. Sohail Amman did a great job. We need a research wing.

 

[Gryphon]

The PAF got incompetent and corrupt ACMs preceding Sohail Aman, and today, the service is reduced to a counter-insurgency force. The mentality was same as that of PA generals in East Pakistan & Yahya. The enemy threat always underestimated and the public fed statements like 'PAF is fully capable to defend the nation from all threats'.

Aircraft aside, PAF doesn't follow the concept of integrated air defence where long range SAMs + interceptors work together. All substantial AD is with the Army (in service and planned), and the public is fed the lollipop that its the PAF defending the skies.

The PN is finally returing to glory, but when will the PAF wake up?

 

[war&peace]

It would not be the only Air Cheif that may require hanging.

Hanging is not the solution... and you can't hang anyone for wrong decision until you have pretty clear evidence that someone did it maliciously with knowing its results i.e. they were chronically corrupt and or traitors (which I think they were not). Wrong decisions can be a result of an organisational culture and that culture or mindset needs to change. We humans learn by mistakes. We need think tanks who are related but independent of the airforce (defence experts belonging to different services but retired, some technology experts, some businessmen)

Although @MastanKhan has some very valid points in his original post it has since become a bash PAF thread. We all know the acquisitions departments of all militries are pretty corrupt and more so in the indo pak subcontinent.
Decisions have been made and we have to live by them. Some folks think they can do a better job butthe question is why arent they?

He is a genuine thinker but unfortunately his info is not the most reliable or up to date. To reach a correct conclusion you need both the thinking mind and also reliable data/info. Our aim should be to solve the problem instead of focussing on bashing people. I respect both @MastanKhan for his out of the box and independent thinking because he is removed from all this so he can see differently but at the same time the same distance puts all of this observation into question that how reliable it is and how accurately has he observed. No person is absolutely right or neutral. As we do research, we pick up our favorites and that influences our observation.

 

[Tps43]

The PAF got incompetent and corrupt ACMs preceding Sohail Aman, and today, the service is reduced to a counter-insurgency force.

But Allah is looking at them all the time just look at the fact that one of ex cas got brain tumour just after retirement.

Excellent answer bro. @MastanKhan needs to update his information before making comments. My father retired in 2008 .. rest of the details I will reveal in a pm may be. Sohail Amman did a

Insallah bro I am waiting for that.

We do have a research setup and that is ACAS operational research and development falls under DG projects .
I am happy with the fact that major reorganization is being done from 2015 till now if plan is followed we will see fruits till end of next decade.

 

[Trango Towers]

But Allah is looking at them all the time just look at the fact that one of ex cas got brain tumour just after retirement.

I met a general at a rehab clinic and he couldnt stand up. I had some physio on my knees and nkw theyvare perfect mashallah

 

[Tps43]

Aircraft aside, PAF doesn't follow the concept of integrated air defence where long range SAMs + interceptors work together. All substantial AD is with the Army (in service and planned), and the public is fed the lollipop that its the PAF defending the skies.

Almost all Sam sqn's of paf are on adhoc basis . The first baby step is taken in shape of have a seprate Dcas AD but still a long way to go

I met a general at a rehab clinic and he couldnt stand up. I had some physio on my knees and nkw theyvare perfect mashallah

Masallah,
I don't know wheather gen was morally ok in his days but it's my thinking that u bear ur fruits in this world .
Allah sabko hadaiyat de

 

[CHACHA"G"]

If I may ask!!!!!!! What you all people on PDF think what we do with those who spent F-16 funds after earthquake ???

Just imagine PAF with all those F-16s which we missed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And on M2k and F-16s...…………….. F-16 is better choice...……… It is just we don't have economy to buy Rafal…………EFT...…………. If we have money we can buy both of them , and keep this in mind French will sell us ………..

 

[Trango Towers]

The PAF got incompetent and corrupt ACMs preceding Sohail Aman, and today, the service is reduced to a counter-insurgency force. The mentality was same as that of PA generals in East Pakistan & Yahya. The enemy threat always underestimated and the public fed statements like 'PAF is fully capable to defend the nation from all threats'.

Aircraft aside, PAF doesn't follow the concept of integrated air defence where long range SAMs + interceptors work together. All substantial AD is with the Army (in service and planned), and the public is fed the lollipop that its the PAF defending the skies.

The PN is finally returing to glory, but when will the PAF wake up?

Oh please...
I know u mean well for PAF but the above is not correct

 

[CHACHA"G"]

Oh please...
I know u mean well for PAF but the above is not correct

I don't agree fully with him...…. But he have a point...……… Just look at our Air defence systems ………… Isn't that enough to tell you about PAF...……. leave the aircrafts...…….
JF-17 was and is light next Gen bird to replace our old F-6s and F-7s now somehow they(JF-17) are better then F-16s and J-10s …………… May I ask how ???????
And the mentality "Defensive Force" ……… or ………. "Its not the machine but the man behind the machine"….. I said this before and I say it again ……. yes, men areimportant but machines too have their own importance , that's why in Quran order is Keep Your Horses Ready...……….. Now Imagine a desert that too 1400 years old and A WAR horse …

 

[MastanKhan]

During earthquake time Kaleem sadat was cas and after 4 months Tanvir was CAS . qamar sulieman came much much later after earthquake.


Empowering Chairman joint staff is the solution .
I don't know when ur father retired and in branch he served but Paf is not same paf after 2011.
Miranshah radar was on daily basis used to hit by average 75 rockets till 2015 . There are many shaheeds in this wot fron paf .
Paf had hot scrambles on north Western border 15 times in year 2016 with one kill and whole world doesn't know that. Mou's have there own roles in more hostile environment then army guys they are deployed on much forward postions then army guys .
Yes paf took some wrong decisions and many CAS were wrong as well but realization came after 2012 that things can't move forward. Acm Tanvir was responsible for disbanding formations and bases few years later we had to re active them 482 , 408 , paf base lower topa all these are perfect example of shortsighted approach.
Spada 2000 became A cat opertional years later who was responsible for that?
ACM Tahir rafique butt some how reorganized thing tho he wasn't perfect himself but still then sohail aman came he uplifted paf ops wise . Those things which only ccq's were doing before 2015 now cat B guy can also do it.
ACM mujahid maybe slow in decision making but he has great analysis skills and he will move paf more well balanced in ops aspect.
What we need to do is to reorganize LOG branch and give sentences to those who are responsible for financal scams.

Hi,

Thank you for the clarification---. The basic fact stays the same---the ACM had no right to donate the fighter aircraft money to earthquake relief---.