Dutch journalist claims evidence MH17 shot down by Russian BUK missile
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Penguin
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I know :o)
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Old WSJ article.
Updated July 19, 2014
U.S. Points to Russian Missile Connection in Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Crash - WSJ
Reports that rebels had possession of a Buk-M1 came as early as June 29, when separatists overran a Ukrainian armed-forces base in the conflict zone in eastern Ukraine. The rebels boasted of seizing control of the weapons system in a Russian news report.
The counterintelligence chief at Ukraine's national security service, Vitaly Nayda, said the reports didn't overly worry his government, as Ukrainian armed forces had rendered that equipment inoperative in March, around the time when the fighting in the area kicked off. The missile system remains on the base, but all the warheads had been removed, Mr. Nayda said.
The U.S. picked up the first intelligence more than a month ago about Russia providing increasingly advanced weapons, including air defense systems, to the separatists.
Earlier this month, U.S. intelligence agencies concluded that Moscow had supplied pro-Russian separatists with two older SA-11s, which the U.S. believes were moved across the border from Russia along with the tanks and other equipment.
But the U.S., which detected the shipments, didn't think that the two SA-11 systems were operational.
After the shoot down on July 14 of a Ukrainian cargo plane at an altitude of over 20,000 feet, the U.S. assessment began to change, and the U.S. concluded that either Moscow sent the separatists a new and operational SA-11 or repaired one of the two inoperable units which the separatists already possessed, a senior U.S. official said.
The U.S. believes all of the SA-11s in the hands of the separatists were supplied by Moscow.
Mr. Nayda said that his agency became aware that the rebels possessed three Buk-M1 antiaircraft systems, as of July 14. On that day, a Ukrainian military Antonov An-26 transport plane was shot by a surface-to-air missile, killing two crew members.
Mr. Nayda said that Ukrainian intelligence showed that a three-man Russian military team entered Ukraine along with one of the Buk missile systems. He didn't say when the equipment crossed the border into Ukraine.
U.S. officials privately say they have suspected Russian involvement runs deeper than just delivering equipment to the rebels. Rear Adm. John Kirby, the Pentagon press secretary, said Friday that the SA-11 is "a sophisticated system" and that "it strains credulity to think that it could be used by separatists without at least some measure of Russian support and technical assistance."
Updated July 19, 2014
U.S. Points to Russian Missile Connection in Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Crash - WSJ
Reports that rebels had possession of a Buk-M1 came as early as June 29, when separatists overran a Ukrainian armed-forces base in the conflict zone in eastern Ukraine. The rebels boasted of seizing control of the weapons system in a Russian news report.
The counterintelligence chief at Ukraine's national security service, Vitaly Nayda, said the reports didn't overly worry his government, as Ukrainian armed forces had rendered that equipment inoperative in March, around the time when the fighting in the area kicked off. The missile system remains on the base, but all the warheads had been removed, Mr. Nayda said.
The U.S. picked up the first intelligence more than a month ago about Russia providing increasingly advanced weapons, including air defense systems, to the separatists.
Earlier this month, U.S. intelligence agencies concluded that Moscow had supplied pro-Russian separatists with two older SA-11s, which the U.S. believes were moved across the border from Russia along with the tanks and other equipment.
But the U.S., which detected the shipments, didn't think that the two SA-11 systems were operational.
After the shoot down on July 14 of a Ukrainian cargo plane at an altitude of over 20,000 feet, the U.S. assessment began to change, and the U.S. concluded that either Moscow sent the separatists a new and operational SA-11 or repaired one of the two inoperable units which the separatists already possessed, a senior U.S. official said.
The U.S. believes all of the SA-11s in the hands of the separatists were supplied by Moscow.
Mr. Nayda said that his agency became aware that the rebels possessed three Buk-M1 antiaircraft systems, as of July 14. On that day, a Ukrainian military Antonov An-26 transport plane was shot by a surface-to-air missile, killing two crew members.
Mr. Nayda said that Ukrainian intelligence showed that a three-man Russian military team entered Ukraine along with one of the Buk missile systems. He didn't say when the equipment crossed the border into Ukraine.
U.S. officials privately say they have suspected Russian involvement runs deeper than just delivering equipment to the rebels. Rear Adm. John Kirby, the Pentagon press secretary, said Friday that the SA-11 is "a sophisticated system" and that "it strains credulity to think that it could be used by separatists without at least some measure of Russian support and technical assistance."
Hindustani78
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I think here its more about the compensation to the victims as well as damages to Malaysian Airlines.
Malaysian Airlines should compensate the vicims' families for being stupid enough to fly through Donbas.
Hindustani78
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Who is laying Air traffic routes ? When the Malaysian MH 17, fly from EU airspace , why that time Russian Air traffic controllers talked about no flying zone ?
Atleast United States, clearly give instructions regarding No flying Zone.
The International Civil Aviation Organisation, a UN body, and national aviation authorities also publish “notices to airmen” (NOTAMs), warning of potential hazards. Airlines file flight plans with air-traffic controllers, choosing routes in accordance with NOTAMs and other “rules of the road”, such as not overflying sensitive military installations. A recent NOTAM put the eastern edge of Ukrainian airspace off limits up to 32,000 feet, following an escalation of military air operations in the region. MH17 was flying at 33,000 feet.
Jul 21st 2014
Ukraine State Aviation Service declares no-fly zone in eastern regions
18.07.2014
The State Aviation Service of Ukraine imposed a no-fly zone over the Donetsk, Luhansk and, partially, Kharkiv regions after the confirmed report of the Malaysia Airlines plane crash in the Donetsk region.
The Ukrainian Infrastructure Ministry said the government set up an ad hoc commission to investigate the plane crash.
International air navigation safety organizations have expressed their readiness to assist in the discovery of the crash causes.
Representatives of aviation authorities from countries whose citizens were on the crashed plane will be invited to join the inquiry.
************
State Aviation Service of Ukraine was following the instructions of International Civil Aviation Organisation, a UN body.
MONTRÉAL, 18 July 2014
“ICAO strongly condemns the use of weapons against international civil aviation,” commented ICAO Council President, Dr. Olumuyiwa Benard Aliu. “This tragic action against the civilian passengers and crew of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 is wholly incompatible with the principles of the Convention. ICAO experts will shortly be dispatched to begin assisting NBAAII officials and we are grateful to be able to support these efforts.”
Penguin
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I personally do not consider this is a stupid rule as it places the burden of proof on the accusor / prosecution.
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Hindustani78
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International experts arrive in Ukraine to find remains of MH17 crash victims| Ukrinform
KYIV, April 14 /Ukrinform/. The international group of experts, involving the specialists from the Netherlands, Australia and Malaysia, has arrived in Ukraine and intends to resume the search activities at the crash site of Boeing MH17 as soon as possible.
The Security and Justice Ministry of the Netherlands has announced this on Tuesday.
"According to the schedule, the early resumption of the search activities is planned, but, as before, everything will depend on the security situation," the Ministry noted.
Experts will focus on the search for the remains and personal belongings of the victims. Experts hope to gain access to the north-western part of the crash site, where search activities had not been carried out before. All things and remains found will be taken to the Netherlands.
KYIV, April 14 /Ukrinform/. The international group of experts, involving the specialists from the Netherlands, Australia and Malaysia, has arrived in Ukraine and intends to resume the search activities at the crash site of Boeing MH17 as soon as possible.
The Security and Justice Ministry of the Netherlands has announced this on Tuesday.
"According to the schedule, the early resumption of the search activities is planned, but, as before, everything will depend on the security situation," the Ministry noted.
Experts will focus on the search for the remains and personal belongings of the victims. Experts hope to gain access to the north-western part of the crash site, where search activities had not been carried out before. All things and remains found will be taken to the Netherlands.
Hindustani78
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MH17 team gain access to new debris field, hope to find last two victims| Reuters
THE HAGUE | By Thomas Escritt
(Reuters) - Nine months after Malaysian Airlines MH17 crashed in eastern Ukraine, investigators have gained access to the area where the last unexamined wreckage lies and hope to recover remains of the last two victims.
Heavy fighting has stopped the Dutch-led team collecting evidence from a field of debris in the north-west of the crash site that was until recently on the front line of the conflict between Moscow-backed rebels and Ukrainian government troops.
"Now that the front line has moved, we can get there safely," Theo ten Haaf, an air force commander in charge of security, said. The area, near the village of Petropavlivka, was still strewn with landmines, he said.
The remaining aircraft fragments could yield information that might help show the cause of the crash, though the focus of the team of 30 Dutch, Australian and Malaysian experts will be on the remains of the 298 passengers aboard the Boeing 777.
Two thirds of the victims of the crash were Dutch, and the Netherlands has taken the lead in the air safety and criminal investigations into the circumstances of the crash, which triggered the severest East-West tensions since the Cold War.
Western governments believe the aircraft was shot down accidentally from the ground by Moscow-backed rebels, and Dutch prosecutors have said this is the likeliest scenario, though they are open to a Russian theory that it was shot down by a Ukrainian air force jet.
Remains of 296 of the people aboard the Amsterdam-Kuala Lumpur flight have been identified, and experts believe the remains of the final two will be in one of two areas in the 10-square-km (four-square-mile) crash site where fires blazed most fiercely after the crash.
"There are two burn sites, a large one and a small one, where we expect any further remains will be found," Pieter-Jaap Aalbersberg, the police officer in charge of the recovery mission, said.
From the beginning, fighting in and around the crash site has hampered access to the wreckage, causing anger in the Netherlands and in other countries whose citizens were killed.
Officials say the process of identifying the last remains will be extremely difficult, with body fragments likely to be buried up to 30 cm (12 inches) deep in the soil and in a state that will make it difficult to extract DNA.
THE HAGUE | By Thomas Escritt
(Reuters) - Nine months after Malaysian Airlines MH17 crashed in eastern Ukraine, investigators have gained access to the area where the last unexamined wreckage lies and hope to recover remains of the last two victims.
Heavy fighting has stopped the Dutch-led team collecting evidence from a field of debris in the north-west of the crash site that was until recently on the front line of the conflict between Moscow-backed rebels and Ukrainian government troops.
"Now that the front line has moved, we can get there safely," Theo ten Haaf, an air force commander in charge of security, said. The area, near the village of Petropavlivka, was still strewn with landmines, he said.
The remaining aircraft fragments could yield information that might help show the cause of the crash, though the focus of the team of 30 Dutch, Australian and Malaysian experts will be on the remains of the 298 passengers aboard the Boeing 777.
Two thirds of the victims of the crash were Dutch, and the Netherlands has taken the lead in the air safety and criminal investigations into the circumstances of the crash, which triggered the severest East-West tensions since the Cold War.
Western governments believe the aircraft was shot down accidentally from the ground by Moscow-backed rebels, and Dutch prosecutors have said this is the likeliest scenario, though they are open to a Russian theory that it was shot down by a Ukrainian air force jet.
Remains of 296 of the people aboard the Amsterdam-Kuala Lumpur flight have been identified, and experts believe the remains of the final two will be in one of two areas in the 10-square-km (four-square-mile) crash site where fires blazed most fiercely after the crash.
"There are two burn sites, a large one and a small one, where we expect any further remains will be found," Pieter-Jaap Aalbersberg, the police officer in charge of the recovery mission, said.
From the beginning, fighting in and around the crash site has hampered access to the wreckage, causing anger in the Netherlands and in other countries whose citizens were killed.
Officials say the process of identifying the last remains will be extremely difficult, with body fragments likely to be buried up to 30 cm (12 inches) deep in the soil and in a state that will make it difficult to extract DNA.
In other real news unlike propaganda of certain posters here-so-called JIT will not release 2nd preliminary report.What is stopping them?According to Western propaganda Russia did it.So why so-called JIT is not releasing all available information?Where is black-box info?ATC records?Awacs&satelite data?Nothing to be seen why?Maybe because reality is quite different from Western propaganda and narrative of certain posters?Reality in which there are multiply holes of 30mm cannon in body of MH-17.Ah wait!BUK does have 30 mm cannon.The same BUK sitting comfortable at airport near Kramatorsk(town occupied by Western installed Ukr war-criminals)since early summer of 2014.
Hindustani78
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Investigation is still going on
There is no investigation. They chose to classify the information and sweep it under the rug. Sucks for the families of the 298 innocents.
Hindustani78
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Those families deserves compensation and this is only i would like to say.
Penguin
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The JIT hasn't (and doesn't) release any preliminary report(s) as it is a criminal investigation that is ongoing.. You appear to be confusing the JIT investigation and that of the Dutch Safety Board, which have very different purposes (responsibility versus cause). The Dutch Safety Board has addressed black-box info, ATC records etc already in september of last year in its preliminary report, which in terms of content follows the requirement set forth by international treaties regarding air incidents. There will not be a second preliminary report, only a final report.
Dutch Safety Board | Investigations & Publication | Investigation crash MH17, 17 July 2014
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