Dutch journalist claims evidence MH17 shot down by Russian BUK missile

[Hindustani78]

MH17: British investigator says Russians DID fire missile that destroyed passenger jet in new documentary - Mirror Online
17 May 2015
A British investigator says he has almost certain proof Flight MH17 was shot down by a missile from a Russian air base.

In a compelling new documentary, Eliot Higgins tells how he spent months analysing photos and video taken in the days before the Malaysia Airlines jet was downed over Ukraine on July 17 last year.

Some 283 passengers and 15 crew died on the Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur flight when it passed over eastern Ukraine, much of which had been occupied by pro-Russian rebels.

Dutch experts are still examining the evidence in a painstakingly slow investigation and haven't yet produced a final report.

But Mr Higgins believes he could be ahead of them after he and his team painstakingly 'geo-tagged' reams of footage by matching the backgrounds in the images to real places on Google Maps.

He then used the tags to trace the path of a BUK surface-to-air missile - from Russia's 53rd Air Defence Brigade base in Kursk to the crash site on Ukrainian soil.

After the crash it was apparently filmed driving back - with one missile missing.

The Leicester-based blogger's claims were first made last year, but have been revived this week after he published a far more detailed report on the missile's alleged final movements.

He showed his techniques to Australia's 60 Minutes, declaring: "I'm absolutely positive it came from Russia."

 

[Hindustani78]

Zubko: 297 bodies found at Boeing crash site in Ukraine
22.05.2015
Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Hennadiy Zubko said the search operation for the bodies of the MH-17 Malaysia Airlines crash victims that occurred in July 2014 is now over.

"Members of the commission have reported on the completion of one of the stages of the mission, the search operation and the repatriation of the bodies, of which 295 have been identified. These bodies have been taken to the Netherlands," Zubko said at a meeting of the international commission on the investigation into the crash.

Zubko said "all victims are regarded as found, but it is not possible to fully identify everyone."

"The results of the DNA tests will be ready on July 1 and the remains will be fully provided to the Netherlands on August 1, 2015," he said.

Zubko added that the search stage ends at that, but the aviation and criminal investigation continues.

Zubko said 2,600 tests involving 900 officers have been performed in the course of the investigation. He thanked the OSCE officials for their support in this investigation.

Zubko also said 24 trucks carrying plane debris have already been delivered to the Netherlands for forensic tests.

A Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur crashed in eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014. All people on board the plane were killed. The most probable theory behind the disaster holds it that the airliner had been shot down by a surface-to-air missile fired from the conflict zone in Donbas.

 

[Galad]

A British investigator says he has almost certain proof

So why this "investigator"is not delivering his "proof" then?What is stopping him?

After the crash it was apparently filmed driving back - with one missile missing.

Another lie from you.The same BUK you and your employers claiming was used to shot down MH 17 belongs to Ukraine and spent entire winter of 2014/2015 at Kramatorsk airfield.Guess who control the town since early summer of 2014?
Since you apparently "knows" so much who did shot down MH17 - why not provide information to rest of us about AWACS&sat info,black boxes,ATC records?In case you missed the memo- processing the information does not take almost 1 year.Well it takes IF "neutral" JIT wants to cover up the committed crime and trying desperatily to come up with something to put all the blame on innocent party(Russia) .

 

[Hindustani78]

So why this "investigator"is not delivering his "proof" then?What is stopping him?

Another lie from you.The same BUK you and your employers claiming was used to shot down MH 17 belongs to Ukraine and spent entire winter of 2014/2015 at Kramatorsk airfield.Guess who control the town since early summer of 2014?
Since you apparently "knows" so much who did shot down MH17 - why not provide information to rest of us about AWACS&sat info,black boxes,ATC records?In case you missed the memo- processing the information does not take almost 1 year.Well it takes IF "neutral" JIT wants to cover up the committed crime and trying desperatily to come up with something to put all the blame on innocent party(Russia) .

MH17: British investigator says Russians DID fire missile that destroyed passenger jet in new documentary - Mirror Online

 

[Penguin]

So why this "investigator"is not delivering his "proof" then?What is stopping him?

Another lie from you.The same BUK you and your employers claiming was used to shot down MH 17 belongs to Ukraine and spent entire winter of 2014/2015 at Kramatorsk airfield.Guess who control the town since early summer of 2014?
Since you apparently "knows" so much who did shot down MH17 - why not provide information to rest of us about AWACS&sat info,black boxes,ATC records?In case you missed the memo- processing the information does not take almost 1 year.Well it takes IF "neutral" JIT wants to cover up the committed crime and trying desperatily to come up with something to put all the blame on innocent party(Russia) .

So why don't you deliver your proof of that. What is stopping you?

How would you know how long an investigation like this takes, typically? Have you researched prior investigations and somehow derived average duration? Or what.

Please explain what specific indications you have that the particular JIT is NOT neutral. ad/or wants to cover anything up.

Why are you so desperately trying to derail this thread?

 

[Galad]

So why don't you deliver your proof of that. What is stopping you?

And how come you are unable to find the pictures of the same BUK?What is stopping you?Hint for you-they are in Ukrainian thread too.And i few times did ask you simple questions-still waiting for your answers.Why you cant answer them?BTW your "neutral"JIT still staying silent and not answering Russian questions from that press conference almost an year ago.Your "neutral" JIT is having so so big problems in decoding the black box?How come?Another hint for you-it takes few days only(investigators of Algerian and that plane in the Alps managed to decoded black boxes for no-time).
Maybe you can check what did Lavrov has said about investigation done by your "neutral" JIT .Another thing for you-the report for MH 17 was supposed to be out this summer,later was pushed till end of year.Why?What is your "neutral"JIT missing?Ah yeah-they cannot find anything to put on Russia despite trying desperately to.
And you and your friend Hundustani are derailing the thread-with your constant posting of lies erm I meant "news" about the investigation -"news" having nothing to do with reality.
P.s.Expecting either you or your friend to post another of your "proof" Russia did it soon.

 

[Penguin]

And how come you are unable to find the pictures of the same BUK?What is stopping you?Hint for you-they are in Ukrainian thread too.And i few times did ask you simple questions-still waiting for your answers.Why you cant answer them?BTW your "neutral"JIT still staying silent and not answering Russian questions from that press conference almost an year ago.Your "neutral" JIT is having so so big problems in decoding the black box?How come?Another hint for you-it takes few days only(investigators of Algerian and that plane in the Alps managed to decoded black boxes for no-time).
Maybe you can check what did Lavrov has said about investigation done by your "neutral" JIT .Another thing for you-the report for MH 17 was supposed to be out this summer,later was pushed till end of year.Why?What is your "neutral"JIT missing?Ah yeah-they cannot find anything to put on Russia despite trying desperately to.
And you and your friend Hundustani are derailing the thread-with your constant posting of lies erm I meant "news" about the investigation -"news" having nothing to do with reality.
P.s.Expecting either you or your friend to post another of your "proof" Russia did it soon.

I don't claim a particular scenario. Therefor I don't have to provide proof for a particular scenario. I do look at scenario's put forward here and elsewhere and try to look for flaws in 'theories'. I als don't own a JIT, therefore you make yourself look rather silly with references to 'your JIT'.

As for the JIT, they don't have to respond to Russian questions in some pressconference. If the Russians have points, there are appropriate channels for them (and media posturing isn't one of them)

If you had read any of the published material by the other (non JIT) investigation, you would know both recorders that make up the 'black box' have been read/heard: there is no problem decoding.

Again, state a case. Don't just rant and ramble.

 

[Galad]

Again, state a case. Don't just rant and ramble.

Oh I did state my case -numerous times and you always failed to noticed since it goes against your firm believes.Neither you nor your friend Hindustani although being such MH 17 "experts" cant answer even one of my questions.Wonder why?Both of you showing remarkable skill ignoring all the signs who did it(above mentioned BUK (property of Ukraine),traces of 30mm air-cannon,traces of air-to-air missiles etc ) and remarkable zeal posting articles explicitly putting the blame again and again on Russia.
Per UN SC your "neutral" JIT should deliver monthly reports about their so-called investigation.So where are they?You are claiming JIT is neutral...so OK if you say so I will believe you.So why not such reports?Cause of what exactly?Lack of staff?Lack of money?Lack of translators?Or maybe they cant deliver them since they cant falsify the data and deliver lies to UN SC(Russia as every other major country with decent intelligence knows very well who did it)?
And I see you completely ignored my note about Lavrov?Why dont you check what he has said about "neutral"JIT?Or maybe for you Lavrov is Mr.Nemo and having no access to classify information and not worth your attention?

As for the JIT, they don't have to respond to Russian questions in some pressconference

Now now you fully know for what kind of Russian press conference I`m talking about.I will give you benefit of the doubt though (you might forget about it). I`m talking about Russian MoD press conference shortly after MH 17 has been shot down-none of their questions received an answer.

If you had read any of the published material by the other (non JIT) investigation, you would know both recorders that make up the 'black box' have been read/heard: there is no problem decoding.

So where are they eh?For almost an year West politicians ,"truth"loving MSM and ppl like you are posting all kind of articles explicitly putting blame on Russia again and again while making Ukraine innocent .So why not openly post the the content of the black boxes eh? UN General assembly is good enough platform for it.So why not deliver information and once and for all show the world that "evil" Russia did it?Answer of these questions is simple- JIT cant post the information simply because cant falsify the available information from black boxes.

 

[Penguin]

Oh I did state my case -numerous times and you always failed to noticed since it goes against your firm believes.

Please quote where I take position.

Neither you nor your friend Hindustani although being such MH 17 "experts" cant answer even one of my questions.Wonder why?Both of you showing remarkable skill ignoring all the signs who did it(above mentioned BUK (property of Ukraine),traces of 30mm air-cannon,traces of air-to-air missiles etc ) and remarkable zeal posting articles explicitly putting the blame again and again on Russia.

Why should I or anyone else here be expected to answer your claims. If you claim, you take on the burden of proof. As for questions, ask all you like. ANYONE here can answer, if they so choose.
You have to make a choise: Ukrainian BUK or 30mm air cannon or AAM (they are contradictory. you know)
Quote me the posts in which I've put up article blaming Russia....

Per UN SC your "neutral" JIT should deliver monthly reports about their so-called investigation.

Says who, where? Please provide where you get this from. Report? Montly? To whom? By what rule?

You are claiming JIT is neutral...so OK if you say so I will believe you.

I've not claimed it is neutral. YOU have claimed it is NOT. There is a difference.

So why not such reports?Cause of what exactly?Lack of staff?Lack of money?Lack of translators?Or maybe they cant deliver them since they cant falsify the data and deliver lies to UN SC(Russia as every other major country with decent intelligence knows very well who did it)?

WHerefrom the notion that there should be monthly reports? Reports to whom? Source on this?

And I see you completely ignored my note about Lavrov?Why dont you check what he has said about "neutral"JIT?Or maybe for you Lavrov is Mr.Nemo and having no access to classify information and not worth your attention?

Russia's foreign minister Sergey Lavrov has condemned a news report of witnesses’ statements, in which people said they had seen a rocket fired at the time of Malaysian Boeing crash in Ukraine in July 2014.
Lavrov condemns Reuters report on MH17 crash, calls for 'unbiased, professional' investigation — RT News

 

[Hindustani78]

And how come you are unable to find the pictures of the same BUK?What is stopping you?Hint for you-they are in Ukrainian thread too.And i few times did ask you simple questions-still waiting for your answers.Why you cant answer them?BTW your "neutral"JIT still staying silent and not answering Russian questions from that press conference almost an year ago.Your "neutral" JIT is having so so big problems in decoding the black box?How come?Another hint for you-it takes few days only(investigators of Algerian and that plane in the Alps managed to decoded black boxes for no-time).
Maybe you can check what did Lavrov has said about investigation done by your "neutral" JIT .Another thing for you-the report for MH 17 was supposed to be out this summer,later was pushed till end of year.Why?What is your "neutral"JIT missing?Ah yeah-they cannot find anything to put on Russia despite trying desperately to.
And you and your friend Hundustani are derailing the thread-with your constant posting of lies erm I meant "news" about the investigation -"news" having nothing to do with reality.
P.s.Expecting either you or your friend to post another of your "proof" Russia did it soon.

I am just posting the news and putting the points as we all are discussing.

Here i am thinking mostly about the passengers who have lost thier lives and about the people who have lost thier loved ones.

Before the crash of MH-17 , if i am not wrong Ukrainian military transport plane as well as 2 Ukrainian fighter planes were shot down. When Russian traffic control did received the radio message that MH 17 was coming from that direction then how come civilian passenger plane was shot down.

Ukraine doesnt produce BUK system and how many BUK system Ukraine has received from the Russian before the events in the Ukraine , all those would have a record. Even if the Eastern Ukrainian rebels were holding BUK system then how come Russian Military or intelligence was not aware about that ?

 

[Hindustani78]

World in Ukraine: Netherlands ambassador expects solid MH17 probe

Reminders of the MH17 tragedy are all around Klompenhouwer’s office in the Podil district. The tragedy prompted an outpouring of sympathy -- and flowers -- from Ukrainians. On July 17, the Malaysian Airlines passenger plane was shot down in eastern Ukraine, killing 298 people, including nearly 200 Dutch nationals.

On Klompenhouwer’s wall is a haunting painting of crash victims given to him by a Ukrainian artist, as well as a framed and autographed vest given by a recovery crew.

Many people quickly concluded that Russia supplied its separatists in Ukraine with a Buk missile that shot down the plane.

Klompenhouwer said that, regardless of personal opinions, the official investigation in which the Netherlands is in charge must be airtight. A final report by the Dutch Safety Board is due in October.
“We have to go beyond a reasonable doubt and exclude other options to officially establish that it is not only unlikely, but impossible, that certain things could have happened...to give a judgment that is convincing,” he said.

He is confident that investigators will prove what happened and identify those responsible. “There’s a lot of evidence. I’m not involved in the penal process, of course, but I understand there’s a lot of evidence.”

 

[Hindustani78]

• How Russia 'faked' two satellite images in attempt to shift blame to Ukraine for MH17: Investigation shows Kremlin altered pictures to show missile launcher missing and on aircraft's flight path | Daily Mail Online
  
• 
  
• Investigative journalists claim to have proof Russia digitally altered images
• They were used in the wake of MH17 tragedy to pin the blame on Ukraine
• The Kremlin claimed it proved Ukrainian missiles were within plane's path
• It's now believed the pictures were not taken on the dates Russia claimed

By Corey Charlton for MailOnline

Published: 08:03 GMT, 1 June 2015 | Updated: 10:14 GMT, 1 June 2015

Russia has been accused of digitally altering two satellite images to pin the blame of downed passenger plane MH17 on Ukrainian forces, it has been claimed.

According a report released by investigative journalist organisation Bellingcat, analysis of the satellite images when compared to Google Earth 'undoubtedly demonstrates' they were tampered with.

All 298 passengers and crew on board the Malaysia Airlines jetliner, the majority of them Dutch, died when it was shot down over rebel-held eastern Ukraine on July 17 last year.

+5
In this photo, you can see Ukrainian air defense equipment deployed at a military base north of Donetsk which Russia claimed was dated July 14 - three days before the crash. However, Bellingcat investigators found evidence showing it was more likely taken sometime between May and mid-June

Here you can see a photo of the same area Russia claimed was taken on July 17, the day MH17 was shot down - with the Ukrainian anti aircraft system (circled) noticeably absent from where it was previously stored. However, a tiny oil spill to the top right of the image helped date the photo as actually being taken sometime before June 17 - a full month before the tragedy

Comparisons with pictures from Google Earth now show the images the Russian Ministry of Defence unveiled to media - purporting to show Ukrainian missiles in the area at the time of the accident - were actually dated between May and June, months before the tragedy.

Bellingcat investigators also found they had been tampered to make it appear missile launchers had left their bases and were deployed within striking distance of the plane on the day it was shot down.


The report's authors stated: 'The forensic analysis conducted by the Bellingcat investigation team clearly and undoubtedly demonstrates that the dates of the satellite photos have been falsified, and that the photographs were digitally modified using Adobe Photoshop CS5 software.'

Eliot Higgins, the founder of Bellingcat, told The Times: 'They're removed the [Ukrainian] Buk missile launcher from the July 17 picture to make it look like it's left the base.

'In the second image of a big open area, they've added missile launchers to make it look like they were in the area when they weren't.'

An international team of investigators are due to finish a report on the cause of the crash around October, although preliminary findings have already confirmed it was struck by a 'high energy' object.

Meanwhile, Dutch prosecutors said recently they were looking for witnesses in eastern Ukraine who may have seen a Russian-made BUK rocket being fired at Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, saying it was the 'leading scenario' in their crash investigation.

The Netherlands is leading the international probe into the disaster.

Western governments and Kiev, citing intelligence intercepts, have repeatedly blamed pro-Russian rebels. Moscow has denied this and suggested the plane was hit by a missile fired by a Ukrainian fighter.

 

[Hindustani78]

Ukrainian general staff says plenty of evidence that MH17 was hit by missile from rebel-controlled territory

The Ukrainian Army General Staff has not commented on the statements of Russian experts' regarding point of origin of the missile which hit Malaysia Airlines MH17 in the summer of 2014, however it has been said that photo and video evidence indicate that it was launched from territory controlled by the rebels.

"There are many expert opinions that support the view of the Ukrainian side - the plane was shot down by Buk [missile system] from the territory controlled by the rebels. There are a lot of photos and video, radio messages of militants were intercepted in which they rejoiced that another Ukrainian plane was shot down, and when it became clear that this was a Malaysian aircraft, they bit their tongues. This speaks in favor of our theory," spokesman for the General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine Vladyslav Selezniov told Interfax-Ukraine on Monday.

"But we proceed from the fact that while there is an investigation, which is expected to be completed this fall, we do not give comments," Selezniov said.

"There are a lot of photos and video, which confirm the route of this missile complex through the territory of Russia, and the fact that it crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border and its operation on the territory of the so-called DPR (Donetsk People's Republic)," he added.

Previously, experts of Russia's air defense systems manufacturer Almaz-Antey dismissed the theory that the anti-aircraft missile which hit flight MH17 on July 17, 2014, was launched from the village of Snizhne controlled by militants.

 

[Hindustani78]

International tribunal looks like best chance for MH17 justice, say Dutch sources : UNIAN news
The Netherlands is discussing with its allies an international tribunal to prosecute those suspected of downing a Malaysian airliner over militant-held eastern Ukraine last year, sources familiar with the discussions have told Reuters, Ukrainian online newspaper RBK-Ukraine reported on Wednesday.

REUTERS
The chance of a successful prosecution is considered slim at best, but the Dutch still hope that, by pushing for a U.N.-style court with the backing of Western allies, they could pressure Russia, whose role in the process is critical, into cooperating, Reuters wrote.

Of the 298 dead passengers and crew on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, two-thirds were Dutch. With the anniversary of the disaster looming on July 17, the government is under intense pressure to act from a public who mostly believe Russia either shot down the plane or supplied the rocket to those who did.

Two sources in the Netherlands, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, said the legal and political complexities of the case had persuaded it to focus on creating an international court backed by the U.N. Security Council, once a multinational investigation finishes and suspects are named.

Asked about the plan, a high-level Dutch government official who also declined to be named told Reuters: "A U.N. tribunal is the best option. We expect that it will provide the greatest chance of cooperation from all countries involved."

For now, the investigation into the crash continues, and Dutch prosecutors have said they do not expect to issue indictments until after the Dutch Safety Board releases a report in October detailing how the plane was downed.

‘But the prosecutors have narrowed their focus to the theory that the plane was shot down by a Russian-built BUK surface-to-air missile fired from an area held by pro-Russian forces.

 

[Hindustani78]

Nearly half of MH17`s wreckage still in Ukraine: Rebel | Zee News
Last Updated: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 - 20:53
Kiev: A top pro-Russian rebel said Wednesday that nearly half the wreckage of the Malaysia Airline jet shot down over Ukraine last year remain strewn across fields controlled by the separatists.

Insurgency leader Andrei Purgin said about 40 percent of the plane`s charred parts were left behind by international investigators and recovery teams.

Kiev and its Western allies accuse the militants of accidentally shooting down the Boeing 777 liner after mistaking it for a Ukrainian jet.

All 298 passengers and crew who boarded the Kuala Lumpur-bound flight MH17 in Amsterdam were killed.

The rebels and Moscow accuse the Ukrainian military of shooting the jet out of the sky in a seeming bid to damage the separatists fighters and Russia`s global reputation.

Purgin said that "a huge part of the plane`s wreckage was left behind."

The investigators "assured us they do not need those parts," he was quoted as saying by the rebels` official news site.

International teams have collected body remains and plane fragments to help a Dutch-led inquiry into what caused the airliner to go down last July.

The Netherlands is also in charge of the criminal prosecution of those responsible.

The Dutch Safety Board said in an initial report last year that the plane had been hit by numerous "high-energy objects".

A final report is expected within months.

AFP