Dutch government refuses to reveal ‘secret deal’ into MH17 crash probe

[powastick]

Dutch government refuses to reveal ‘secret deal’ into MH17 crash probe

The Dutch government has refused to reveal details of a secret pact between members of the Joint Investigation Team examining the downed Flight MH17. If the participants, including Ukraine, don’t want information to be released, it will be kept secret.

The respected Dutch publication Elsevier made a request to the Dutch Ministry of Security and Justice under the Freedom of Information Act to disclose the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) agreement, along with 16 other documents. The JIT consists of four countries - the Netherlands, Belgium, Australia andUkraine - who are carrying out an investigation into the MH17 disaster, but not Malaysia. Malaysian Airlines, who operated the flight, has been criticized for flying through a war zone.
Part of the agreement between the four countries and the Dutch Public Prosecution Service, ensures that all these parties have the right to secrecy. This means that if any of the countries involved believe that some of the evidence may be damaging to them, they have the right to keep this secret.

“Of course [it is] an incredible situation: how can Ukraine, one of the two suspected parties, ever be offered such an agreement?” Dutch citizen Jan Fluitketel wrote in the newspaper Malaysia Today.

Despite the air crash taking place on July 17 in Eastern Ukraine, very little information has been released about any potential causes. However, rather than give the public a little insight into the investigation, the Dutch Ministry of Security and Justice is more worried about saving face among the members of the investigation.

"I believe that this interest [international relations] is of greater importance than making the information public, as it is a unique investigation into an extremely serious event," the Ministry added, according to Elsevier.

Other reasons given for the request being denied included protecting investigation techniques and tactics as well as naming the names of officials who are taking part in the investigation. The Ministry said it would be a breach of privacy if they were revealed. “If the information was to be released then sensitive information would be passed between states and organizations, which would perhaps they would be less likely to share such information in the future,” said the Ministry of Security and Justice.

Dutch MP Pieter Omtzigt, who is a member of the Christian Democratic Party, has made several requests for the information to be released to the public. “We just do not know if the Netherlands has compromised justice,” he said in reaction to the ministry’s decision. The MP was surprised that this agreement was even signed, never mind kept secret.

Journalists walk behind parts of the Malaysia Airlines plane Flight MH17 as Dutch investigators (unseen) arrive near at the crash site near the Grabove village in eastern Ukraine on November 11, 2014 (AFP Photo)

Malaysia is the only country to have directly negotiated with the anti-Kiev militias in the East of Ukraine, while the country’s Ambassador to the Netherlands said he was unhappy that Malaysia had not been included within the JIT. Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte flew to Kuala Lumpur on November 5, but Malaysia says it still did not receive an invitation to join.

"We must first be included in the JIT, otherwise it would be hard for us to cooperate in the investigation. The parties inside the investigation must include us in the team, right now we are just a participant," said the Malaysian Inspector-General of Police Khalid Abu Bakar in Kuala Lumpur on Wednesday, which was reported by the New Straits Times.

A preliminary report by the Dutch Safety Board, which was released September said the MH17 crash was a result of structural damage caused by a large number of high-energy objects that struck the Boeing from the outside.

Dutch investigators added that “there are no indications” that the tragedy was triggered “by a technical fault or by actions of the crew.”

Dutch government refuses to reveal ‘secret deal’ into MH17 crash probe — RT News

 

[powastick]

Unacceptable!

 

[Galad]

“Of course [it is] an incredible situation: how can Ukraine, one of the two suspected parties, ever be offered such an agreement?”

Mr. Jan Fluitketel is asking rhetorical question.Everyone neutral and unbiased know very well why.Ukraine is new best buddy of USA.West is firmly behind Ukraine never mind of crimes committed in Donbas .The deal was signed early August(if my memory is correct at 8th) and details for it few weeks later were out in Russian sites.Not bad eh? West signing secret deal with the very same country responsible for downing of MH17.This single action is enough to judge whether or not they are interesting of proper investigation.If anything Malaysia should be country tasked to investigate the incident not the likes of Holland.Not to mention Ukraine-the country which already has downed a plane in the past and refuse to admit fault till very end.

 

[duhastmish]

This is plain cheating how can they do it. It's not their own property world wants to know. Who gave them right for such audacious behaviour toward this case.

 

[powastick]

Mr. Jan Fluitketel is asking rhetorical question.Everyone neutral and unbiased know very well why.Ukraine is new best buddy of USA.West is firmly behind Ukraine never mind of crimes committed in Donbas .The deal was signed early August(if my memory is correct at 8th) and details for it few weeks later were out in Russian sites.Not bad eh? West signing secret deal with the very same country responsible for downing of MH17.This single action is enough to judge whether or not they are interesting of proper investigation.If anything Malaysia should be country tasked to investigate the incident not the likes of Holland.Not to mention Ukraine-the country which already has downed a plane in the past and refuse to admit fault till very end.

We have limited capability on the investigating side but we are a responsible neutral observer. Europe doesn't like it? I guess the outcome already been decided.

 

[Galad]

Europe doesn't like it? I guess the outcome already been decided.

Europe does not like many things-it is their own problem though.Both EU and USA as perfect colleagues-in-crimes would love to bury the investigation.Not gonna happen.Russia will keep leaking more and more information.At the end Ukraine will have to pay the price for its crime.Unfortunately those in the West who did ordered will not be punished once again.

 

[Hack-Hook]

who care why they made the deal , every one who think for one minute about the incident knew who was responsible for it.

now be sure they are going to make a one sided documentary about the incident just in one or two years just like what they did before on other incidents.

 

[Penguin]

Dutch government refuses to reveal ‘secret deal’ into MH17 crash probe

The Dutch government has refused to reveal details of a secret pact between members of the Joint Investigation Team examining the downed Flight MH17. If the participants, including Ukraine, don’t want information to be released, it will be kept secret.

The respected Dutch publication Elsevier made a request to the Dutch Ministry of Security and Justice under the Freedom of Information Act to disclose the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) agreement, along with 16 other documents. The JIT consists of four countries - the Netherlands, Belgium, Australia andUkraine - who are carrying out an investigation into the MH17 disaster, but not Malaysia. Malaysian Airlines, who operated the flight, has been criticized for flying through a war zone.
Part of the agreement between the four countries and the Dutch Public Prosecution Service, ensures that all these parties have the right to secrecy. This means that if any of the countries involved believe that some of the evidence may be damaging to them, they have the right to keep this secret.

“Of course [it is] an incredible situation: how can Ukraine, one of the two suspected parties, ever be offered such an agreement?” Dutch citizen Jan Fluitketel wrote in the newspaper Malaysia Today.

Despite the air crash taking place on July 17 in Eastern Ukraine, very little information has been released about any potential causes. However, rather than give the public a little insight into the investigation, the Dutch Ministry of Security and Justice is more worried about saving face among the members of the investigation.

"I believe that this interest [international relations] is of greater importance than making the information public, as it is a unique investigation into an extremely serious event," the Ministry added, according to Elsevier.

Other reasons given for the request being denied included protecting investigation techniques and tactics as well as naming the names of officials who are taking part in the investigation. The Ministry said it would be a breach of privacy if they were revealed. “If the information was to be released then sensitive information would be passed between states and organizations, which would perhaps they would be less likely to share such information in the future,” said the Ministry of Security and Justice.

Dutch MP Pieter Omtzigt, who is a member of the Christian Democratic Party, has made several requests for the information to be released to the public. “We just do not know if the Netherlands has compromised justice,” he said in reaction to the ministry’s decision. The MP was surprised that this agreement was even signed, never mind kept secret.

Journalists walk behind parts of the Malaysia Airlines plane Flight MH17 as Dutch investigators (unseen) arrive near at the crash site near the Grabove village in eastern Ukraine on November 11, 2014 (AFP Photo)

Malaysia is the only country to have directly negotiated with the anti-Kiev militias in the East of Ukraine, while the country’s Ambassador to the Netherlands said he was unhappy that Malaysia had not been included within the JIT. Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte flew to Kuala Lumpur on November 5, but Malaysia says it still did not receive an invitation to join.

"We must first be included in the JIT, otherwise it would be hard for us to cooperate in the investigation. The parties inside the investigation must include us in the team, right now we are just a participant," said the Malaysian Inspector-General of Police Khalid Abu Bakar in Kuala Lumpur on Wednesday, which was reported by the New Straits Times.

A preliminary report by the Dutch Safety Board, which was released September said the MH17 crash was a result of structural damage caused by a large number of high-energy objects that struck the Boeing from the outside.

Dutch investigators added that “there are no indications” that the tragedy was triggered “by a technical fault or by actions of the crew.”

Dutch government refuses to reveal ‘secret deal’ into MH17 crash probe — RT News

There is no secret pact. This is in accordance with international treaties regarding the handling of air crashes and investigations of suchs events.

Incidentally, two parallel investigations are led by the Dutch. One is into the cause of the crash, and a second investigation is a criminal inquiry.

Given that the JIT consists of four countries - the Netherlands, Belgium, Australia and Ukraine - it is in reference to the criminal investigation. THe article has a straight quote from Wiki.
Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Since 23 July an international investigation team has been conducting an off-site examination to determine why the aircraft crashed. In agreement with the Ukrainian government, the Netherlands are leading this investigation. The investigation team consists of 24 investigators with members from Ukraine, Malaysia, Australia, Germany, the United States, the United Kingdom and Russia. In addition to the international accident investigation, the selection of the flight route will also be independently investigated by the Dutch Safety Board. The National Bureau of Air Accidents Investigation of Ukraine (NBAAI) had requested that the DSB participate in the international investigation; the DSB received formal notice of the accident from the NBAAI on 18 July. The NBAAI, which lead an international off- and on-site investigation during the first days after the crash, delegated the investigation to the DSB because of the large number of Dutch passengers and the fact that the flight originated in Amsterdam. A Malaysian team of 133 officials and experts, comprising search and recovery personnel, forensics experts, technical and medical experts arrived in Ukraine. Australia sent a 45-member panel headed by former Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston, who had earlier supervised the MH 370 probe. The United Kingdom sent six investigators from the Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) and the UK Foreign Office has sent extra consular staff to Ukraine. It took until late July that the full international team could start working at the crash site, under the leadership of the Dutch Ministry of Defence.

 

[Superboy]

298 civilians were sacrificed for the ultimate goal of unification of humanity under American hegemony. RIP to the 298 martyrs.

 

[Penguin]

298 civilians were sacrificed for the ultimate goal of unification of humanity under American hegemony. RIP to the 298 martyrs.

Another contentless POST. Stfu about martyrs. A former collegue of mine was on board, with family. They deserve better than your kinf of drivel.

 

[Penguin]

2. Why is the Dutch Safety Board leading the investigation? Ukraine has transferred responsibility for investigating the cause of the crash to the Dutch Safety Board. The request came from Ukraine.

This request was made because the flight departed from the Netherlands, and due to the large number of Dutch nationals who died in the crash. The transfer was formally recorded in an agreement on 23 July.

3. Which countries are involved in the investigation and why?
The International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) states that it is the responsibility of the country where an aircraft accident took place to investigate the cause. Immediately following the crash of flight MH17, aviation investigators from Ukraine began investigating the cause of the accident. The Netherlands (as one of the countries affected) received official word of the crash of MH17 from the investigators shortly after it took place, including an invitation to take part in the investigation.

The ICAO agreement dictates that certain countries are obliged to be involved in the investigation. In principle, the country where the accident took place (state of occurance) should lead the investigation. However, the option is available to transfer the obligation of the investigation to another country. The countries where the operator is based, where the aircraft was designed and where it was built are also entitled to take part. Countries that can supply specific information or expertise may participate at the invitation of the party leading the investigation. Countries that suffered fatalities are also entitled to play a part in the investigation, but have limited rights.

In the case of the MH17 crash, many countries volunteered their assistance of their own accord. In some cases this assistance was accepted because the investigators had specific knowledge, information or expertise to offer.

The following countries have contributed (to a greater or lesser extent) to the international investigation team into the crash of flight MH17: Ukraine, Malaysia, Australia, Russia, the United Kingdom, the United States, Germany, France, Italy and Indonesia. The ICAO and the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) also contributed to the investigation as organisations. The leadership of the investigation rests with the Dutch Safety Board, which will publish both the preliminary and final report. The countries that have a formal role as participants in the investigation under the ICAO agreement will be given access to the draft reports, and may provide feedback. The country leading the investigation may offer other countries access to the draft reports at its discretion.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/flight-mh17-what-youre-not-being-told.326254/page-4#ixzz3JwDzHWah
Dutch Safety Board | Investigations & Publication | Investigation crash MH17, 17 July 2014

Procedure The draft preliminary report has been sent to the Accredited Representative of the states that participate in the investigation (Malaysia, Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom, the United States of America and Australia) for review. All Accredited Representatives have sent a reaction. The Dutch Safety Board assessed the provided suggestions and amended the report where appropriate.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/flight-mh17-what-youre-not-being-told.326254/page-4#ixzz3JwEgPCV5
Dutch Safety Board | Investigations & Publication | Investigation crash MH17, 17 July 2014

 

[Penguin]

Annex 13
To the Convention on International Civil Aviation
Aircraft Accident and Incident Investigation

Non-disclosure of records
5.12 The State conducting the investigation of an accident or incident shall not make the following records available for
purposes other than accident or incident investigation, unless the appropriate authority for the administration of justice in that
State determines that their disclosure outweighs the adverse domestic and international impact such action may have on that or
any future investigations:
a) all statements taken from persons by the investigation authorities in the course of their investigation;
b) all communications between persons having been involved in the operation of the aircraft;
c) medical or private information regarding persons involved in the accident or incident;
d) cockpit voice recordings and transcripts from such recordings; and
e) opinions expressed in the analysis of information, including flight recorder information.
5.12.1 These records shall be included in the final report or its appendices only when pertinent to the analysis of the
accident or incident. Parts of the records not relevant to the analysis shall not be disclosed.
Note.— Information contained in the records listed above, which includes information given voluntarily by persons
interviewed during the investigation of an accident or incident, could be utilized inappropriately for subsequent disciplinary,
civil, administrative and criminal proceedings. If such information is distributed, it may, in the future, no longer be openly
disclosed to investigators. Lack of access to such information would impede the investigation process and seriously affect flight
safety.
...

Release of information — Consent
6.2 States shall not circulate, publish or give access to a draft report or any part thereof, or any documents obtained during an investigation of an accident or incident, without the express consent of the State which conducted the investigation, unless such reports or documents have already been published or released by that latter State.

Security Exception

 

[powastick]

MH17: IGP demands for active role in probe team

KUALA LUMPUR: Malaysian investigators must have active role in the MH17 Joint Investigation Team (JIT), says Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Khalid Abu Bakar.

He said Malaysia must be made a full member of the criminal investigation team, instead of being just a participant.

"We must first be included in the JIT, otherwise it would be hard for us to cooperate in the investigation.

"The parties inside the investigation must include us in the team, right now we are just a participant," he told reporters during a press conference at the International Institute of Islamic Thought and Civilisation, here, earlier today.

When asked if he was appalled that Malaysia has been left out from the JIT, Khalid replied "Of course!"

Khalid said he and the Attorney-General Tan Sri Abdul Gani Patail will leave for the Netherlands on Dec 3 to discuss on that matter with the investigations authorities there.

Meanwhile, on Tourism and Culture Minister Datuk Seri Mohamed Nazri Abdul Aziz's remarks that Sabah is unsafe for tourists, Khalid denied the minister's allegation.

He said the coastal areas under the Eastern Sabah Safety Zone is safe, and the police have taken all necessary precautions to ensure the safety of not only tourists visiting the area, but also the community residing there.

This is from our head of police. So, why is Ukraine in and Malaysia marginalize in the investigation.

 

[Penguin]

This is from our head of police. So, why is Ukraine in and Malaysia marginalize in the investigation.

Do your own research, I suggest.

 

[Penguin]

Eurojust coordination meeting: investigations into Flight MH17

Eurojust coordination meeting: investigations into Flight MH17
The Hague, 28 July 2014

Today, public prosecutors and investigators from the 12 countries that are involved in the investigation into the crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 met at Eurojust in The Hague to discuss their judicial cooperation strategy.

Due to the crash of Flight MH17 on 17 July in Ukraine, a criminal investigation has commenced by Ukrainian, Dutch, Australian, American and Malaysian investigators. A member of the Dutch Public Prosecution Service is in Ukraine to be present during the investigation. In the Netherlands, a forensic investigation is being conducted with the participation of experts from different countries.

The Dutch Public Prosecution Service has started the coordination of international cooperation, and requested the assistance of Eurojust in arranging today's coordination meeting. Eurojust is the EU's judicial coordination and cooperation agency. Its mandate is to facilitate the coordination and cooperation of the Member States, and it can also invite countries from outside the European Union to participate in coordination meetings to plan strategies in fighting serious organised crime.

At today's meeting, chaired by Mr Han Moraal, National Member for the Netherlands at Eurojust, representatives of the 11 countries whose citizens are victims - the Netherlands, Australia, Malaysia, UK, Belgium, Germany, the Philippines, Canada, New Zealand, Indonesia and the USA - in addition to Ukraine, Europol and Interpol, were present.

The goal of today's meeting at Eurojust was to discuss cooperation and ways of broadening and accelerating the investigations, including the establishment of a Joint Investigation Team (JIT). The JIT will focus first on the technical and forensic investigation in Ukraine, the location of the criminal offence.

Mr Moraal said after the meeting: ‘Today’s coordination meeting was a vital step. It provided a valuable opportunity for prosecutors and investigators from all over the world to meet face-to-face and to further their one goal: to find out the truth about this tragedy. The task is considerable, but with such a broad approach and willingness to work together, I hope that we can cooperate in an efficient and effective way to uncover the cause of the crash and seek justice for the 298 innocent victims and their grieving families.’

For further information, please contact:
EUROJUST
Ms Jacalyn Birk, Press & PR Service
Tel: +31 70 412 5516
Mobile: +31 6 527 69 282
E-mail: info@eurojust.europa.eu

The Dutch Public Prosecutor's Office has been charged with the criminal investigation into the crash of Malaysia Airlines flight MH 17 on Thursday 17 July 2014. The results of this investigation must bring to light who was responsible for the plane crash in Ukraine.

The Dutch Safety Board is investigating the crash, but international treaties governing that investigation explicitly forbid the DSB to assign responsibility.

I.e. there is a technical and a legal investigation, respectively dealing with establishing 'what happened ' and 'who's to blame'.