Drone tankers for the airforce.

[Zulfiqar]

And tanker drone can't transfer much fuel then big tankers, compare to that if our IL-78 can refuel 3-4 jets per stories your drone tanker will refuel only 1 jet per stories

Turbopro/and piston engine drone doing the same for ages (snice 90s) only US recently trying to introduce jet drone on its arsenals, Jet drone has less endurance then prop/piston engine drone @Zulfiqar

Yes its refueling ability will be lower but so will be its RCS and more of them can be disbersed around in different areas of the country. Disbursal of assets is key to greater mission success. EW aircrafts,AEW and refuelers would be priority targets in any shooting war.

Turboprop don't have enough speed to keep up with jets and jets can't reduce speed due to stalling issues.

Dude do look up material on wingman drones and tanker drones to get more clarity.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Yes its refueling ability will be lower but so will be its RCS and more of them can be disbersed around in different areas of the country. Disbursal of assets is key to greater mission success. EW aircrafts,AEW and refuelers would be priority targets in any shooting war.

Turboprop don't have enough speed to keep up with jets and jets can't reduce speed due to stalling issues.

Dude do look up material on wingman drones and tanker drones to get more clarity.

when you place these tanker drones near the border of the enemy there more chance to being detected by enemy (Indian) long ranged ground based AESA radar like GREEN PINE as well as AWACS, SO GAIN WOULD BE ZERO and thus being shot down by enemy (Indian) air superiority jets and long range SAMs (S-300), if you place these tanker drone in Baluchistan (Jacobabad/ Queta) or In Khybar phaktunkha province like PESHAWAR/ Sarkdu or In Sindh like Karachi or Sukkur they have no value because they transfer little fuel to our fighter jets hence endurance (TIME ON AIR) for our fighter jets remain same

as for wingman it doesn't matters drone is turboprop or jet powered, Fighter jets can designate targets for drone and turn away and communicate with drone through data links and subsonic jet powered drone can't keep up with supersonic fighter jets in war either, this idea of wingman/tanker drone is not feasible to PAF at all @Zulfiqar

 

[Zulfiqar]

when you place these tanker drones near the border of the enemy there more chance to being detected by enemy (Indian) long ranged ground based AESA radar like GREEN PINE as well as AWACS, SO GAIN WOULD BE ZERO and thus being shot down by enemy (Indian) air superiority jets and long range SAMs (S-300), if you place these tanker drone in Baluchistan (Jacobabad/ Queta) or In Khybar phaktunkha province like PESHAWAR/ Sarkdu or In Sindh like Karachi or Sukkur they have no value because they transfer little fuel to our fighter jets hence endurance (TIME ON AIR) for our fighter jets remain same

as for wingman it doesn't matters drone is turboprop or jet powered, Fighter jets can designate targets for drone and turn away and communicate with drone through data links and subsonic jet powered drone can't keep up with supersonic fighter jets in war either, this idea of wingman/tanker drone is not feasible to PAF at all @Zulfiqar

All the tankers face similar problems but the drones have a lower probability of getting shot down relative to a bigger tanker.

Moreover, the goal for stingray is to carry 15000 lbs or 8k plus litres of fuel. This is enough to top up 2-4 jets depending upon mission.


If the idea was not feasible then others would not have been working on it. The idea is not for the fight today but 10-15 years down the road.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

i think its a good idea having a drone with fuel tank for fighters so in case of war they dont have to come to ground for fueling plus same drone can be shield for that jet. drones are not as expensive as fighter jets so we can have many for different roles.

 

[Asad200]

Attack on Saudi oil fields is giving new dimensions to usage of drones.
Much more is possible with them.

 

[Ultima Thule]

All the tankers face similar problems but the drones have a lower probability of getting shot down relative to a bigger tanker.

Moreover, the goal for stingray is to carry 15000 lbs or 8k plus litres of fuel. This is enough to top up 2-4 jets depending upon mission.


If the idea was not feasible then others would not have been working on it. The idea is not for the fight today but 10-15 years down the road.

It ok for USA but not for Pakistan you can't put any Electronic countermeasure on these drone and relying solely on stealth because in front IDAS (Integrated DEFENSE RADAR NETWORK) of the enemy you have more chances to being get detected, and look at the Tanker drone from Boeing its size of F-18 and 57 feet in length we have no money to make fighter jet sized drone currently and its same concept like buddy buddy refueling but only modification is the tanker is unmanned, its useless concept for Pakistan @Zulfiqar

 

[Zulfiqar]

It ok for USA but not for Pakistan you can't put any Electronic countermeasure on these drone and relying solely on stealth because in front IDAS (Integrated DEFENSE RADAR NETWORK) of the enemy you have more chances to being get detected, and look at the Tanker drone from Boeing its size of F-18 and 57 feet in length we have no money to make fighter jet sized drone currently and its same concept like buddy buddy refueling but only modification is the tanker is unmanned, its useless concept for Pakistan @Zulfiqar

It is not a useless concept. It is a reality that we will have to face a decade down the line.

Buddy buddy has no place in PAF. You are wasting a jet and a highly trained pilot for tanker duty.

We can go around in circles but a decade down the line we will be facing much complex threats.

Look at how drones were employed by us/Israel in recent wars and by Iran just recently.

Every one is working in deep learning/AI and on swarm robotics.

A decade down the line, the war will be much different.

 

[Ultima Thule]

It is not a useless concept. It is a reality that we will have to face a decade down the line.

Buddy buddy has no place in PAF. You are wasting a jet and a highly trained pilot for tanker duty.

We can go around in circles but a decade down the line we will be facing much complex threats.

Look at how drones were employed by us/Israel in recent wars and by Iran just recently.

Every one is working in deep learning/AI and on swarm robotics.

A decade down the line, the war will be much different.

Man man look its useful only for USN/USAF where lots of area safe from enemy to be refueled ,Whereas PAF has no such advantages whenever you fly you're alway in the eyes of the enemy

This system is similar to buddy buddy system but difference is tanker is unmanned

And we are in short of Fighter jets you're talking support aircraft like drone/tanker drones

and the main question is that where $$$ to build these expensive drone tanker which might cost more then up coming Block-3 JF-17 @Zulfiqar

 

[Zulfiqar]

Man man look its useful only for USN/USAF where lots of area safe from enemy to be refueled ,Whereas PAF has no such advantages whenever you fly you're alway in the eyes of the enemy

This system is similar to buddy buddy system but difference is tanker is unmanned

And we are in short of Fighter jets you're talking support aircraft like drone/tanker drones

and the main question is that where $$$ to build these expensive drone tanker which might cost more then up coming Block-3 JF-17 @Zulfiqar

By that logic we should stop R&D on azm projects because we don't have any money right now.

Pakistan does have a requirement for tankers hence the IL-78s.

Economies of scale. As I said in previous post, work with the Chinese

Adding a partner reduces the capex burden.

We are talking about R&D only. This is not just a tanker drone but also a drone that can be employed as so weapons carrier.

It is not going to be more expensive than a block 3. At least not in 15 years if and when we deploy them because Chinese/COTS tech would have matured by then.Just look at the drones and hypersonic glide vehicles demonstrated by the Chinese in recent parade. Chinese tech would have further improved by then.

Look at how US is bringing down cost if F-35.

By sharing R&D and through economies of scale the cost of the drone will be lower.

 

[GriffinsRule]

This drone tanked idea is utterly useless in Pakistan's scenario. We dont have jets flying off of aircraft carriers that have to carry out strikes far away and need to be refueled 2-4 times for a mission. Nor are we patrolling huge swathes of oceans. This is an idea that works for them because their huge tanker fleet is retiring and is already over stretched with commitments. Thats why they have F-18s buddy refueling as well.

In Pakistani context, we have a small country to patrol and our targets are within reach of even small fighters. Heck even F-86s made it from Peshawar to some of the forward airbases in India and back. The second question is, are the tanker that we currently have not capable of meeting the requirements? Seems like we already have an over capacity in terms of the IL-78s. And if that need does arise, it would be better to buy more re-fuelers that can also double up as haulers for airlift.

Another important aspect that has gone unmentioned in this entire thread is which jets are you planning on refueling? F-16s certainly don't have any issue with range for our needs. Mirages similarly wont be doing any long range strikes inside India but attacking their bases close to Pakistan and using standoff weapons as well. That just leaves the JF-17, which by its design has limited endurance (regardless of refueling) because of a lack of on-board oxygen generation capability, and is reliant on pressurized oxygen in bottles. Once that runs out, doesn't matter how much fuel you have, the flight is coming to an end. So what use would these drones be? And the ten year time frame? Make that 30 to be realistic and maybe it will help project AZM's jet in the future patrolling the Arabian Sea. But as for now, there are more impactful things we should focus our limited money and manpower towards.